How precise is LNL AP?

[showmebob]

I received my LNL AP in late December. My COAL was all over the place so I sent the press back to Hornady. They replaced the ram which was undersized. The repaired press seems to get better the more I use it but what I'm wondering is? What C.O.A.L variation +/- do other LNL AP owners get when loading pistol rounds?

 

[Walkalong]

I load on a Projector, which was the predecessor to the LNL.

A lot of factors determine how good your variance will be loading on any progressive. Bullet style vs seating stem fit. Consistency of the bullets. etc etc.

I get anywhere from +/- .001 to +/- .003, occasionally worse. Most die makers will custom fit a seater stem for your bullet. I have never done that, but it would probably help with some bullet styles.

Welcome to THR

 

[redneck2]

COAL can be very misleading to the point of being worse than useless. I'd get a Stoney comparator gauge and check off the ogive. I've read that bullet tips can vary by .020. I know that, using the comparator, my OAL has varied .010-.015 but length to ogive is the same. Using the ogive is much more precise, particularly with SPs.

 

[crashcarruthers]

The trick to any prgressive press IMO is to learn to be consistant with pressure, bottom out the stroke and use approximately the same speed and fluid motion. I load rifle rounds a single stage Co-Ax and Pistols on a new LNL with EzJect. I have also used Dillion 650XL and 550, I use a Forster concentric gauge to measure run out. Caliper and RCBS cartridge specific mic gauge to check OAL. Most of the time the run out and OAL is .003 or less on any of the four presses I've used, but sometimes bullet manufacture tolerances play into this. Bottom line their are alot of factors that can change run out and OAL, rounds within .003 for pistol is proabaly less of a factor than how much you practice. It is better ammo than I am capable of shooting.

 

[Iron Sight]

If I only run, load and eject 1 round of brass through my LnL versus every position on the shell plate being serviced. The 1 round run will be around .003 - .005 shorter than when the shell plate has brass at every position.

 

[Sommerled]

Ironsight has the same experience as I with a lone round in the press. The bullet gets seated deeper.

Wonder if there is a bit of play developing as the parts of the press wear with use that is greater with the stress of all stations working at the same time. My first LnL AP has about 40K rounds through it and has always been well lubed and cleaned.

That said, Not really much of an issue at the range.

 

[ReloaderFred]

Since the shell plate is only fastened in the center, the bolt acts as a fulcrum. If there isn't any brass on the other side of the plate to counterbalance the pressure on the side seating the bullet, then it acts as a teeter totter to some degree. The shell plate has to be able to rotate, so it can't be made totally rigid, and there's going to be a small amount of "play" in it, which will be more evident with only one case in it.

My LNL loads accurate ammunition, and I don't particularly worry about OAL for pistol rounds, as long as the bullets go where I want them to, within my ability to put them there.

You can reduce the variability by having a seating stem that perfectly matches the nose of the bullet being used. There are several ways to do this. You can order one for a particular bullet, or you can use epoxy and form an oversize stem yourself by coating the bullet nose with wax and filling the cavity of the seating stem with a small amount of epoxy. Put the stem in a drill press and the bullet on the press table. Lower the drill press chuck onto the bullet nose and hold it there until the epoxy hardens. You'll have a stem that perfectly matches that bullet. You can usually pick up extra seating stems pretty cheap at gunshows.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[showmebob]

First, thanks to all you LNL AP owners that responded.

I will give you my COAL variations and please weigh in on whether you think I may still have a press problem. (I know the variations I am getting won't hurt me on the range, but I like things that work proper and someday I may load rifle target rounds)

380's +.009/-.005 total variation .014

9mm's dry cases in carbide dies .004 variation if I exclude the last 4 rounds. Including the last 4 rounds variation is .009.

9mm's lubed cases in carbide dies total variation including all rounds (1st was the shortest) .008. Without the 1st it was .006

357's nickle cases .005 excluding last round, .008 including last round.

357's brass cases .003 variation.

While I compiled these figures I realize how much better the press is than before the repairs but it still seems like I'm getting more variation than most folks. What really seems strange to me is that sometimes my "short" round will be first, last, or in the middle of the run and I never know where it will be.
BTW 380 & 9mm are Berrys round nose and the 357's are Berrys flat nose bullets.
At this point I think I will load up a bunch of rounds and see if things continue to get better. At least I don't feel I need to measure every round at this point!
Would you be happy with these figures from a new press?

Please vote!

 

[ReloaderFred]

You didn't mention checking to see if the seating stem perfectly matches the profile of the bullets being seated. If the nose of the bullet doesn't contact the end of the seating stem, then the sides of the stem are actually doing the seating, and not the solid portion of the stem. I hope that makes sense.

If the stem doesn't contact the absolute tip of the bullet, you'll never get consistant OAL with your loaded rounds.

I suggest you blacken some bullets with a Sharpie and seat them. Check to see where the black is contacted. If it's on the ogive of the bullet, then that's where your problem is. You'll need to eliminate this area before addressing the rest of the process. You can also remove the seating stems and visually check them with a hand held bullet.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[WV_Vizsla]

Are you using Hornady Redding dies with a sliding bullet seating stem or a fixed stem like some others? I found no change switching from my RCBS RS2 one at a time production to the LNL running fast. 243 prints .5" & 300 Whtby runs 1.5" or tighter. Spire lead tips seem to vary some on the calipers, but not target paper or deer hearts.

 

[showmebob]

"You didn't mention checking to see if the seating stem perfectly matches the profile of the bullets being seated. If the nose of the bullet doesn't contact the end of the seating stem, then the sides of the stem are actually doing the seating, and not the solid portion of the stem. I hope that makes sense.

If the stem doesn't contact the absolute tip of the bullet, you'll never get consistant OAL with your loaded rounds.

I suggest you blacken some bullets with a Sharpie and seat them. Check to see where the black is contacted. If it's on the ogive of the bullet, then that's where your problem is. You'll need to eliminate this area before addressing the rest of the process. You can also remove the seating stems and visually check them with a hand held bullet."

ReloaderFred
That sounds like some good advice. I'll give it a try the next time I load. From other forums I've read it sounds like I've still got more variations than other folks. I will check to see where the dies are contacting the bullets before proceeding. Thanks.

 

[Otto]

A couple of things to check.

• If you're not seating the primers flush or below the case head, it will throw off your measurements.
• Second, check to see how much slop the sub plate has.
The sub plate sits on top of the ram and is held in place by two screws.
Make sure the screws are snug (don't over tighten).
• If you have a single stage press, re-seat the bullets with the same seating die and check the seating depths again.

Out of curiosity, I just measured 12 rounds of 45acp from a new box of WWB.
From that small sampling, I got variations from 1.271 to 1.254.

My own reloads with 200gr SWC Lasercasts vary around 10 thousandths.

 

[ole farmerbuck]

My CAOL varries too and now all of the sudden it is giving me trouble with shell plates 1,10 and 45. Cases keep getting stuck trying to eject. But, my 1st and last oal's are the shortest. And yes, this is the new style eject system.

 

[Walkalong]

I use a crimp die in the 5th station, so my first O.A.L. is shorter (.003 to .005)because there is no pressure from the crimp die yet. My last O.A.L. is OK.

I do not size while loading. I size and then hand prime prior to loading.
How are you set up? Which dies where?

 

[indiandave]

I reload on a Dillon so I can't coment on the Hornady press. But as others have said alot depends on your technique. you have to be smooth and consistant to get good results.

 

[Walkalong]

Knock off the sharp edge on the bottom edge of the cutout for the case, and polish the areas that touch the case. The 9MM seemed to be the one that gave folks problems ejecting, myself included, but after doing this to my shellplate 9MM ejects flawlessly. As far as the #1 shell plate, Hornady has come out with #45 just for the .45 ACP, but my #1 works fine for it.

 

[ole farmerbuck]

My problems are only with the bigger cases. My 223 and 9mm spit out perfect. They're sending me a new subplate. The piece with the indent holes and ejector bump on it. Hopefully it will fix it. Other than that......great press.
Some cases resize harder than others too. That will cause a differance in oal's. I've started resizing/depriming/priming all of the cases 1st, then going back and finish loading them. Helps a bunch.

 

[showmebob]

Walkalong
Thanks for the tip on the shell plate. I had 4 or 5 that didn't eject. I sprayed Hornady One Shot Gun Cleaner and Lube on th eject part of the subplate and haven't had any problems since. The next time I'll polish the shell plate.
My 380's vary the most in COAl, 9's are better and 357 are great!
I have been lightly lubing the cases and that seems to help. My seating stem is not contacting the very tip of the case so thats the next modification. Overall, other than the 380's I'm happy now with my loads.
Again, thanks to all for ALL the great advice!