glockky
Member
I am debating getting a LNL AP and have heard a lot of good and bad about them. I was just wondering what the cons of this press are? And if I can use my lee and rcbs dies with it?
Tell me the CONS of the Hornady LNL AP
- Thread starter glockky
- Start date
- Status
Expensive compared to Lee, inexpensive compared to Dillon.
I have never needed their customer service.
Probably not limited to the Hornady, but don't power through a jam. Stop and find the problem otherwise you will break something.
It will not take long to figure out what a normal feel is.
Hornady has been having problems with the drive hub failing recently. It seems to be in a certain serial number range.
My only complaint with mine is that shell plates, powder dies, and metering inserts seem to be in short supply at times. Makes it difficult to add new cartridges at times. Otherwise it has been great and I am using it more and more.
Cons of the LnL that I've experienced.
The shell retension spring is the best method of holding cases in the shellplate around. It makes it very easy to take a case out of the plate in the middle of a loading process. However, it has a tendancy to kink and break. Hornady doesn't seem to mind sending replacements. I originally bought a 3 pack but went through them in short order and have replaced 3 more through Hornady who sent me 2 at a time the last time.
Lee dies work fine, but some need to be seated so deeply that the O-ring prevents the nut from catching a thread. No problem, just turn the nut upside down and it still holds tight in the LnL bushing. You can also replace the nut with a Hornady locking ring which similar to the one that comes with the LnL AP powder drop.
The base of press where the primer seating stem pushes is soft cast iron like the rest of the press. I can't take the concentrated force of the primer seating stem and gets indented. Eventually it may prevent the primer seater from going up high enough to full seat a primer. Some folks JB weld a washer or a coin or a piece of steel to stregthen it. I've seated about 5,000 primers with my press and while it does have an indentation in it, it still seats primers just fine.
The case ejector can get deformed by "muscling" cases through. This will gouge the shape of the ejector nub and prevent cases from ejecting from the last station reliably.
The adjustmeng of the advancement prawls are very sensitive and if barely off, will prevent full advancement of the shell plate making you think the press is no good. A tiny adjustment is all that is needed and forcing the advancement will simply result in a broken prawl. Once adjusted properly at your reloading bench, it stays there.
Most steel parts are coated at the factory with a thin film of grease which must be cleaned off with a degreaser which is not included with the press (it ought to be). Because you cleaned the anti-rust coating from the press, it is now subject to rust and you need to take appropriate measures (as with most bare steel items).
The powder measure could get stuck in the "drop" position. If you don't see the metering insert go up and down each time and don't have a lock-out die, you will load up a bunch of squibs which may be dangerous the next time you shoot these rounds. I've always caught this and usually it takes nothing more than to disassemble the rotor and meter insert and reassemble it.
The tube method of primer dispensing is dangerous but so is any other loader that uses it and it is only "more dangerous" than some inconvenient methods such as the RCBS strip dispensers or the "Pez" dispensers on the Lee presses because if a primer goes off in the tube, the whole tube can go off. If a primer goes off while seating it, only that primer goes off. I have never had a primer go off outside of a gun <yet>.
The case feeder costs almost as much as the press (for that much money, I'd rather buy more bullets, powder and primers). But for some, it's very convenient.
It's a big press. You need to mount it on a steady platform. I have mine on a 2x6 which is bolted to the workbech and attached to the wall studs with "L" brackets. There is no flex anywhere when I pull the lever which gives me a very good feel of the press when I operate it.
All of these are little "nits". Overall, it is a great reloading system. Chageovers from one caliber to another takes less than 10 minutes and a new caliber costs $30 for the plate and $12 for 4 bushings along with the dies. I typically budget $100 for a new caliber.
It is a great way to go out to the garage, load up 100 rounds in about 30 minutes and not even break a sweat or feel rushed.
The shell retension spring is the best method of holding cases in the shellplate around. It makes it very easy to take a case out of the plate in the middle of a loading process. However, it has a tendancy to kink and break. Hornady doesn't seem to mind sending replacements. I originally bought a 3 pack but went through them in short order and have replaced 3 more through Hornady who sent me 2 at a time the last time.
Lee dies work fine, but some need to be seated so deeply that the O-ring prevents the nut from catching a thread. No problem, just turn the nut upside down and it still holds tight in the LnL bushing. You can also replace the nut with a Hornady locking ring which similar to the one that comes with the LnL AP powder drop.
The base of press where the primer seating stem pushes is soft cast iron like the rest of the press. I can't take the concentrated force of the primer seating stem and gets indented. Eventually it may prevent the primer seater from going up high enough to full seat a primer. Some folks JB weld a washer or a coin or a piece of steel to stregthen it. I've seated about 5,000 primers with my press and while it does have an indentation in it, it still seats primers just fine.
The case ejector can get deformed by "muscling" cases through. This will gouge the shape of the ejector nub and prevent cases from ejecting from the last station reliably.
The adjustmeng of the advancement prawls are very sensitive and if barely off, will prevent full advancement of the shell plate making you think the press is no good. A tiny adjustment is all that is needed and forcing the advancement will simply result in a broken prawl. Once adjusted properly at your reloading bench, it stays there.
Most steel parts are coated at the factory with a thin film of grease which must be cleaned off with a degreaser which is not included with the press (it ought to be). Because you cleaned the anti-rust coating from the press, it is now subject to rust and you need to take appropriate measures (as with most bare steel items).
The powder measure could get stuck in the "drop" position. If you don't see the metering insert go up and down each time and don't have a lock-out die, you will load up a bunch of squibs which may be dangerous the next time you shoot these rounds. I've always caught this and usually it takes nothing more than to disassemble the rotor and meter insert and reassemble it.
The tube method of primer dispensing is dangerous but so is any other loader that uses it and it is only "more dangerous" than some inconvenient methods such as the RCBS strip dispensers or the "Pez" dispensers on the Lee presses because if a primer goes off in the tube, the whole tube can go off. If a primer goes off while seating it, only that primer goes off. I have never had a primer go off outside of a gun <yet>.
The case feeder costs almost as much as the press (for that much money, I'd rather buy more bullets, powder and primers). But for some, it's very convenient.
It's a big press. You need to mount it on a steady platform. I have mine on a 2x6 which is bolted to the workbech and attached to the wall studs with "L" brackets. There is no flex anywhere when I pull the lever which gives me a very good feel of the press when I operate it.
All of these are little "nits". Overall, it is a great reloading system. Chageovers from one caliber to another takes less than 10 minutes and a new caliber costs $30 for the plate and $12 for 4 bushings along with the dies. I typically budget $100 for a new caliber.
It is a great way to go out to the garage, load up 100 rounds in about 30 minutes and not even break a sweat or feel rushed.
Blue68f100
Member
I have had mine for over 4 yrs now. Your Lee dies will work but on the short 9mm set you will need to flip the lock ring over or replace it with a Split ring. No problem with the RCBS dies. I have used Hornady CS with good results, most have. I had only had to return one item to them for evaluation. I think they do this when their trying to figure out why a item is failing. There was a run of press that ended up with a bad cast on the drive hub. This was from a supplier. They are send out replacement if this happens. I think it's been a couple of week now since one showed up. If bad they break early on.
The only negative and this applies to all progressive, it's expensive feeding them. They produce a lot of good ammo fast, and bad ammo fast if you mess up.
I have over 20k through my press now. I did add the Brass feeder a year later. It's well worth it but can pita to setup so it feed reliably. I have not had the primer feed problems some describe. If you follow the directions it should work as design, but if you skip a step it may not.
The only negative and this applies to all progressive, it's expensive feeding them. They produce a lot of good ammo fast, and bad ammo fast if you mess up.
I have over 20k through my press now. I did add the Brass feeder a year later. It's well worth it but can pita to setup so it feed reliably. I have not had the primer feed problems some describe. If you follow the directions it should work as design, but if you skip a step it may not.
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Striker Fired
Member
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2011
- Messages
- 467
Mine has been good,no breakdowns or issues.The drive hubs that were breaking are in the 35,900 to 36,600 range so look at that number,by now you should be getting into the good ones again.When/if you order it,all you say when ordering the shellplates is the "new style"or "ez-ject",it's that simple.When I bought mine,I did a little research on what I would need to get with it and easily saw that there was 2 styles, plus the package specified which one is inside. You will need to get more quick-lock bushings if you load several calibers.
Otherwise just watch to make sure the shellplate falls into the detents,if it doesn't you will catch a case on a die or the PTX.That is the one thing I'd prefer to work a little smoother.(It is the worst when you go real slow)
Otherwise just watch to make sure the shellplate falls into the detents,if it doesn't you will catch a case on a die or the PTX.That is the one thing I'd prefer to work a little smoother.(It is the worst when you go real slow)
1.) Primer seating stem lacks leverage, and on some presses, will not seat primers reliably no matter the fix tried
2.) Primer slider will bind and stick if not perfectly clean
3.) Lack of decent roller handle compared to a Dillon
4.) Die bushings will back out, Hornady will supply shims; they still back out
5.) Case feeder is an afterthought with many design flaws:
a.) 9mm will fly off the platform
b.) cases will get caught at the top of the case feed wheel and bind
c.) cases will get caught in the case feed funnel and jam
d.) cases will fly out of the case feed and hit you in the head
e.) 9mm will not feed into the shell plate without tipping, Hornady sends replacement shell plates but they do not completely solve the problem
f.) 9mm will not feed into the shell plate fully using the supplied v block
g.) cases will bind in the drop feed mechanism
h.) cases will get stuck at the junction of the funnel and drop tube
i.) will not work reliably in any combination with .40 S&W
6.) 9mm will not eject 100% reliably with EZ eject
7.) Index pawls will round off and press will no longer index consistently, which is a hard problem to diagnose
8.) Shell plate bolt will back out if not tightened down tightly, but when tightened down tightly, cases will not eject reliably
2.) Primer slider will bind and stick if not perfectly clean
3.) Lack of decent roller handle compared to a Dillon
4.) Die bushings will back out, Hornady will supply shims; they still back out
5.) Case feeder is an afterthought with many design flaws:
a.) 9mm will fly off the platform
b.) cases will get caught at the top of the case feed wheel and bind
c.) cases will get caught in the case feed funnel and jam
d.) cases will fly out of the case feed and hit you in the head
e.) 9mm will not feed into the shell plate without tipping, Hornady sends replacement shell plates but they do not completely solve the problem
f.) 9mm will not feed into the shell plate fully using the supplied v block
g.) cases will bind in the drop feed mechanism
h.) cases will get stuck at the junction of the funnel and drop tube
i.) will not work reliably in any combination with .40 S&W
6.) 9mm will not eject 100% reliably with EZ eject
7.) Index pawls will round off and press will no longer index consistently, which is a hard problem to diagnose
8.) Shell plate bolt will back out if not tightened down tightly, but when tightened down tightly, cases will not eject reliably
dbarnhart
Member
Here is a link to an extensive write-up by a guy who used the Hornady LnL-AP, Dillon 650, and Lee Loadmaster side-by-side for a year:
http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillonLeeHornadyComparison.pdf
I've owned my LnL-AP for about a year and loaded about 5000 rounds on it. Calibers I reload are .45acp, .223, and .308. While I've reloaded for years on an RCBS Rock Chucker, the Hornady is my only experience with a progressive press.
I would not exactly call these CONS, they are my 'I wish...' items:
1. I wish there were a way to adjust primer seating depth
2. I wish these was a hole in the casting in the primer slide channel so that grains of powder than fall in there don't get trapped and prevent full movement of the slide. SInce there isn't, one needs to be mindful of any powder spillage and if it occurs to stop and clean things up before proceeding.
3. I wish there was a way to adjust the inboard limit of travel on the primer slide.
I have been extremely pleased with my LnL-AP. It fits my needs to a tee. I think that Hornady did a particularly good job of accommodating caliber changes. They are easy without breaking the bank.
http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillonLeeHornadyComparison.pdf
I've owned my LnL-AP for about a year and loaded about 5000 rounds on it. Calibers I reload are .45acp, .223, and .308. While I've reloaded for years on an RCBS Rock Chucker, the Hornady is my only experience with a progressive press.
I would not exactly call these CONS, they are my 'I wish...' items:
1. I wish there were a way to adjust primer seating depth
2. I wish these was a hole in the casting in the primer slide channel so that grains of powder than fall in there don't get trapped and prevent full movement of the slide. SInce there isn't, one needs to be mindful of any powder spillage and if it occurs to stop and clean things up before proceeding.
3. I wish there was a way to adjust the inboard limit of travel on the primer slide.
I have been extremely pleased with my LnL-AP. It fits my needs to a tee. I think that Hornady did a particularly good job of accommodating caliber changes. They are easy without breaking the bank.
I have not had the proplems as mizer post I have no problems with 9mm nor .40 flying off or not ejecting. As far as a roller handle I don't own a Dillon because of price of any of there accessories, yup I heard it said A no BS warranty but small number of problems with my L-N-L progressive I'll deal with is and as with any multifunction item until it is ajusted you can and will experience some problems.
The one thing you should do is put BLUE locktight on the pawl screws so they don't come out of ajustment.... and as far as the shims I put some locktight rim of the powder measure bushing then it doesn't move and I do not remove the measure.
The one thing you should do is put BLUE locktight on the pawl screws so they don't come out of ajustment.... and as far as the shims I put some locktight rim of the powder measure bushing then it doesn't move and I do not remove the measure.
showmebob
Member
I've got about 14000 rounds through mine. The only con I can really think of is I didn't buy it sooner.
All progressive presses require a learning and adjustment curve.
I have not had the same issues as many of the ones listed in the other post.
All progressive presses require a learning and adjustment curve.
I have not had the same issues as many of the ones listed in the other post.
NRA-Highmaster
Member
The biggest gripe I have is the lack of finish on some parts (powder measure mostly), which allows them to rust easily. My loading area is pretty dry too. Like a lot of mechanical things, it took a little tinkering to make it work like I wanted. I agree the case feed is less than stellar. All in all, I wouldn`t hesitate to buy another.
Mike 27
Member
I have had mine since January and about 2000 rounds through it. No major issue's. I wish the primer seater, seated a bit deeper. I have not had problems with the ejector, and do not have the expensive case feeder. Powder change is a bit of a pain. I usually swirl a dryer sheet around in it and blow it out, and disassemble it and clean it out. I love it and would strongly recommend it. I upgraded from a Lee Challenger, and still use it for rifle at this point. The Lee dies will work fine. Mine have a few threads in the bushing but holding well without flipping the lock nut.
I operate my Hornady L-N-L AP press a bit different than most. I prefer to tumble my brass between resizing and reloading so I resize and process the brass shortly after shooting (small batches go quickly) and then store the cases away for future loading.
I do not use a case feeder and I prime off line with a hand primer so I avoid the issues with those parts of the press. The press mounted primer system and I do not get along. But it is not limited to the Hornady, I have two Dillon SDBs that I have removed the Dillon priming systems as well. It works for me and I still load more ammunition than I can shoot.
As a result, loading goes slicker than sn** with few problems or issues. I have made some custom drop tubes for the powder measure so that I do not have to have a separate powder drop die set up for each cartridge. (Stay tuned, I will have more posted on the drop tubes in a day or two).
I like the flexibility of the Hornady press.i can place dies just about anywhere except for the decapping operation. I reload sometimes with the automatic powder measure and sometimes I charge the cases off line.
I agree that the case holding spring is a good method for holding the case in the shell plate and makes it easy to remove the case. I am still using the original case holding spring after 2-1/2 years. It is kinked liked crazy but I am too cheap to change it. i do have 6 spares on hand. I expect it to break at any time. I get away with the kinky spring because I have separated the resizing process from the reloading process. The kinks do upset the case position and it sometimes upsets the case position so that it does not line up with the resizing die. This is more pronounced with larger diameter cases like 45 Colt and 44 Special than with smaller cases.
I mostly load straight walled handgun cases on the Hornady, including 30 carbine. I have done some 223 Remington plinking ammunition and it really does not ring my bell. I have dies to load 30-06 on the Hornady but have not tried it yet. Not sure i ever will. But that is me.
I researched the Hornady versus the Dillon 650 for 6 months before buying the Hornady, The research took so long because the Hornady was out of stock at the standard vendors that i use. I had the hots to get a progressive and each round of research led me back to the Hornady. I am pleased with my choice and glad i waited.
I really do not have any negatives within the limits of how I operate the press.
I do not use a case feeder and I prime off line with a hand primer so I avoid the issues with those parts of the press. The press mounted primer system and I do not get along. But it is not limited to the Hornady, I have two Dillon SDBs that I have removed the Dillon priming systems as well. It works for me and I still load more ammunition than I can shoot.
As a result, loading goes slicker than sn** with few problems or issues. I have made some custom drop tubes for the powder measure so that I do not have to have a separate powder drop die set up for each cartridge. (Stay tuned, I will have more posted on the drop tubes in a day or two).
I like the flexibility of the Hornady press.i can place dies just about anywhere except for the decapping operation. I reload sometimes with the automatic powder measure and sometimes I charge the cases off line.
I agree that the case holding spring is a good method for holding the case in the shell plate and makes it easy to remove the case. I am still using the original case holding spring after 2-1/2 years. It is kinked liked crazy but I am too cheap to change it. i do have 6 spares on hand. I expect it to break at any time. I get away with the kinky spring because I have separated the resizing process from the reloading process. The kinks do upset the case position and it sometimes upsets the case position so that it does not line up with the resizing die. This is more pronounced with larger diameter cases like 45 Colt and 44 Special than with smaller cases.
I mostly load straight walled handgun cases on the Hornady, including 30 carbine. I have done some 223 Remington plinking ammunition and it really does not ring my bell. I have dies to load 30-06 on the Hornady but have not tried it yet. Not sure i ever will. But that is me.
I researched the Hornady versus the Dillon 650 for 6 months before buying the Hornady, The research took so long because the Hornady was out of stock at the standard vendors that i use. I had the hots to get a progressive and each round of research led me back to the Hornady. I am pleased with my choice and glad i waited.
I really do not have any negatives within the limits of how I operate the press.
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I guess I got a good press or just understand how to use it. Loaded 8000 rounds in 40, 38 and 223.
I have only damaged 1 case retainer spring and not sure how.
Primer system has a lot of leverage, press installs primers fine. Only had the primer shuttle stick a couple times usually from shaved primer pieces from a tight primer pocket. Primer system is safe as primer tube is sealed off from the priming operation by the shuttle. The primer tube is a couple inches from the priming operation.
My shell plate bolt has never come loose, and it dosnt need tightened down so tight that the shell plate won't move. If press indexing pawls are getting rounded or broken I would say learn to feel what the press is doing and stop forcing it. Guys that think they can just jurk the press handle around will always have problems. While the adjudtment on the pawls is touchy it is quite easy to adjust and dose not need to be as prefect as guys say.
Never had the powder measure stick up, that is what the return spring is for. But just like with any auto reloader if you are not watching your powder drop you are not paying attention and causing your own problems.
My RCBS dies fit fine. The Lee FCD and universal decapping die fit too. Don't own any other Lee dies. Never had a problem with the LnL bushings.
My case eject works great and never had it bind. Of cource if it did and the issue is forced something is going to give.
I have had very little problems with my press but then again I can deal with mechanical things. When I read things like posted above about this and that all I can figure is guys can't figure out how to work something or lack mechanical ability and then of cource blame the press and company because it can't be there fault.
I have only damaged 1 case retainer spring and not sure how.
Primer system has a lot of leverage, press installs primers fine. Only had the primer shuttle stick a couple times usually from shaved primer pieces from a tight primer pocket. Primer system is safe as primer tube is sealed off from the priming operation by the shuttle. The primer tube is a couple inches from the priming operation.
My shell plate bolt has never come loose, and it dosnt need tightened down so tight that the shell plate won't move. If press indexing pawls are getting rounded or broken I would say learn to feel what the press is doing and stop forcing it. Guys that think they can just jurk the press handle around will always have problems. While the adjudtment on the pawls is touchy it is quite easy to adjust and dose not need to be as prefect as guys say.
Never had the powder measure stick up, that is what the return spring is for. But just like with any auto reloader if you are not watching your powder drop you are not paying attention and causing your own problems.
My RCBS dies fit fine. The Lee FCD and universal decapping die fit too. Don't own any other Lee dies. Never had a problem with the LnL bushings.
My case eject works great and never had it bind. Of cource if it did and the issue is forced something is going to give.
I have had very little problems with my press but then again I can deal with mechanical things. When I read things like posted above about this and that all I can figure is guys can't figure out how to work something or lack mechanical ability and then of cource blame the press and company because it can't be there fault.
DaveInFloweryBranchGA
Member
1.) Primer seating stem lacks leverage, and on some presses, will not seat primers reliably no matter the fix tried
If you're having problems with this, you don't have the primer mechanism polished and adjusted properly so the primer is coming in centered over the punch/under the primer pocket. To properly polish and adjust the primer feed mechanism, you need to polish all the rough parts (not a lot of work) and adjust the primer indexing bar in the X, Y and Z orientations so the primer pick up hole on the carry arm is centered perfect under the drop tube when in the "back" position and the indexing/timing cam rod is oriented so the primer carry arm is traveling straight and parallel in it's trough. During this process, you need to blue loctite the nut underneath the press and the screw holding the plastic piece at the top of the indexing/cam bar. Once that's done, your primers will be situated to seat properly. Once that's done, your primers will will feed properly and seat properly from now on, as you've got the adjustments correct and loctited in. To insure the last primer(s) in the tube feed, add a brass or other material rod above the primers to simulate the weight of a full tube of primers. If you use a thin enough rod, the rod will slip into the primer carry arm hole and "lock up" the primer carry arm, preventing it's travel and letting you know you're out of primers.
If, at that point, the primers are still not seating to the proper depth, it can only be one thing - how far the primer shaft is coming up. If the primer shaft is not coming up enough, it can be shimmed (I've never had to do this.) by placing and glueing/tapping/drilling/screwing in a small metal shim or adjustable screw underneath the primer punch mechanism.
If this does not resolve the issue, your primer punch is of an improper length and needs to be replaced. Of course, if this is the case, the primer punch mechanism needs to be replaced with a primer punch mechanism where the seating punch is of the proper length. Doing this eliminates the need for the mod mentioned in the previous paragraph.
2.) Primer slider will bind and stick if not perfectly clean
If properly polished and adjusted, this is pretty much a non-issue. With the primer mechanism polished and properly adjusted, the amount of powder/dirt needed to cause the primer mechanism to hang up is likely the operator having an improperly adjusted press in many areas, there by making many other errors/mistakes, spilling lots of powder and failing to clean up the spills, then failing to take the time to polish, properly adjusting their press's operating mechanisms and failing to learn how to operate their press in general.
Most complaints I've seen of the Hornady LnL are by folks who owned a different brand of progressive previously and didn't take the time to get to know and learn their new and different LnL like they did their other progressive press when they first got it. They also allowed themselves to blame the press for their lack of diligence in learning their new press. The Hornady is auto advance, a different mechanism/operating mechanism and requires a learning curve.
It seems odd, but is true, but those that have the most problems and dissatisfaction with new progressives tend to be those coming from a different brand or progressive to a new and different one. I include myself among these folks. The important point is to realize one may be among this group and to take the time to learn how the mechanisms of the new press work, how to adjust/tune those mechanisms and how to properly operate the new press.
If one doesn't do this, dissatisfaction is sure to occur.
3.) Lack of decent roller handle compared to a Dillon
Very high quality, better than the Dillon roller handles are commonly available from several aftermarket sources. The Dillon roller handle will fit with very minor tweaks, but why do so when these excellent aftermarket handles are available.
A mistake many press owners make is wanting to buy or source all their reloading equipment from one manufacturer/supplier. This limits what one can get as well as limiting the variety and over all quality of the reloading experience. All the companies out there have good stuff. Once can improve it greatly by mixing and matching.
4.) Die bushings will back out, Hornady will supply shims; they still back out
In a decade of buying Hornady die bushings, I never had a single one back out. If they do back out of some press, it is likely not the die bushing, but the tolerance between the bushing and the bushing receptacle that is the problem. The press should be returned to Hornady for replacement of the die bushing receptacles or Hornady should send out new receptacles.
A simple tolerance/manufacturing issue, easily resolved. One should not accept a bandaid like shims to resolve a manufacturing defect.
5.) Case feeder is an afterthought with many design flaws:
Unlike the Dillon casefeeder, the Hornady case feeder is designed to feed both rifle and pistol cartridges and comes with all the parts to feed many calibers. Because of this, it is not an easy mechanism to adjust because the variety of available parts and Hornady's granted "needs improvement" documentation doesn't explain it well.
To get it to feed properly, the operator should first have a properly adjusted and smoothly running press before attempting to add the feeder.
a.) 9mm will fly off the platform
Only if the feeder is improperly adjusted or the wrong feet/etc. are used.
b.) cases will get caught at the top of the case feed wheel and bind
This is a known design flaw and the fix is available with excellent pictures. The name of the forum escapes me at the moment, but it's a simple fix and with a minor tweak, the problem is eliminated. Shouldn't be there, but there case feeder is a fairly new product for Hornady. Dillon had many renditions of their press before finally settling into the "not perfect either" presses they offer currently and even these presses have had modifications over the years to improve some aspect or problem found in the field.
c.) cases will get caught in the case feed funnel and jam
Not if you've got it setup right and using the correct tunnels. In some calibers such as .40 S&W, one may have to fabricate or get fabricate some adapter parts to get better tolerance between case and case tunnel. Unfortunately, this is where having a case feeder that is designed to feed everything rather than selling caliber conversions for each caliber can cause problems. But the solution isn't a difficult one to come up with.
d.) cases will fly out of the case feed and hit you in the head
If one is slamming one's press around enough to get cases popping out at that velocity, one might consider rethinking how one is operating one's press. Remember, the main object of any reloading press is to produce improved ammunition over what the factory offers. This is true even when one is reloading progressively. If one is slamming one's press around in an attempt to get speed, one probably isn't reloading quality ammunition.
e.) 9mm will not feed into the shell plate without tipping, Hornady sends replacement shell plates but they do not completely solve the problem
This is an adjustment problem and the cause is likely the wrong feed foot. Improperly adjusted press with off time indexing contributes greatly to this problem.
f.) 9mm will not feed into the shell plate fully using the supplied v block
Try another v block, you may be using the wrong one. Hornady's instructions aren't always clear. Additionally, your press timing/auto advance can affect this, as well as the adjustment of your case feeder's cam rods.
g.) cases will bind in the drop feed mechanism
Again, an adjustment, tuning and tweaking issue. Take the time to figure it out. Once you've come to understand the mechanism, polish/tune it up and loctite the permanent parts down, most of these type issues are gone permanetly.
h.) cases will get stuck at the junction of the funnel and drop tube
Again, tune, adjust and tweak. Learn the mechanism.
i.) will not work reliably in any combination with .40 S&W
A known fix with pictures has been posted on this board. To get a feeder that works with all available calibers, you have to pay for "caliber conversions." Again, the Hornady is made to be "once size fits all," but when you buy it, you have to realize it's going to need tuning/adjustment/tweaks. Even mechanism designed to feed a specific cartridges are going to need tuning/proper adjustment/tweaks, so you aren't missing much. At some point, Hornady engineering will likely resolve some of these caliber type issues, but until then and while the feeder is still new, it is going to need some home made resolution.
Since Hornady did made engineering tweaks on the Hornady Projector to improve it to the Hornady LnL, it is reasonable to expect they'll continue to improve their product line. See Dillon history, 300/350 to 550 for an example of this.
6.) 9mm will not eject 100% reliably with EZ eject
Polish the shell plate, properly adjust the auto indexing for smoother operation. Blue loctite pawl screws.
7.) Index pawls will round off and press will no longer index consistently, which is a hard problem to diagnose
Take the time to learn how to adjust the indexing (does take a bit of time, proportional to one's mechanical aptitude, but most folks can resolve this issue permanetly) by carefully going through the auto advance mechanism until the shell plate rotates smoothly and locks into it's detent ball locations without "bounce."
8.) Shell plate bolt will back out if not tightened down tightly, but when tightened down tightly, cases will not eject reliably
This is a tolerance issue and I'm not sure the EzJect nub is the final solution. Modifying the press to eliminate the ezject nub (file it off) and adding an RCBS style ejector (L shaped spring wire with a small set screw mounted in the base plate) may be a better solution. This would not be a hugely difficult modification and would resolve all ejection issues.
I still do not understand why Hornady eliminated the effective ejection mechanism on the Projector, except it may have been a cost reduction effort on the part of the bean counters.
If you're having problems with this, you don't have the primer mechanism polished and adjusted properly so the primer is coming in centered over the punch/under the primer pocket. To properly polish and adjust the primer feed mechanism, you need to polish all the rough parts (not a lot of work) and adjust the primer indexing bar in the X, Y and Z orientations so the primer pick up hole on the carry arm is centered perfect under the drop tube when in the "back" position and the indexing/timing cam rod is oriented so the primer carry arm is traveling straight and parallel in it's trough. During this process, you need to blue loctite the nut underneath the press and the screw holding the plastic piece at the top of the indexing/cam bar. Once that's done, your primers will be situated to seat properly. Once that's done, your primers will will feed properly and seat properly from now on, as you've got the adjustments correct and loctited in. To insure the last primer(s) in the tube feed, add a brass or other material rod above the primers to simulate the weight of a full tube of primers. If you use a thin enough rod, the rod will slip into the primer carry arm hole and "lock up" the primer carry arm, preventing it's travel and letting you know you're out of primers.
If, at that point, the primers are still not seating to the proper depth, it can only be one thing - how far the primer shaft is coming up. If the primer shaft is not coming up enough, it can be shimmed (I've never had to do this.) by placing and glueing/tapping/drilling/screwing in a small metal shim or adjustable screw underneath the primer punch mechanism.
If this does not resolve the issue, your primer punch is of an improper length and needs to be replaced. Of course, if this is the case, the primer punch mechanism needs to be replaced with a primer punch mechanism where the seating punch is of the proper length. Doing this eliminates the need for the mod mentioned in the previous paragraph.
2.) Primer slider will bind and stick if not perfectly clean
If properly polished and adjusted, this is pretty much a non-issue. With the primer mechanism polished and properly adjusted, the amount of powder/dirt needed to cause the primer mechanism to hang up is likely the operator having an improperly adjusted press in many areas, there by making many other errors/mistakes, spilling lots of powder and failing to clean up the spills, then failing to take the time to polish, properly adjusting their press's operating mechanisms and failing to learn how to operate their press in general.
Most complaints I've seen of the Hornady LnL are by folks who owned a different brand of progressive previously and didn't take the time to get to know and learn their new and different LnL like they did their other progressive press when they first got it. They also allowed themselves to blame the press for their lack of diligence in learning their new press. The Hornady is auto advance, a different mechanism/operating mechanism and requires a learning curve.
It seems odd, but is true, but those that have the most problems and dissatisfaction with new progressives tend to be those coming from a different brand or progressive to a new and different one. I include myself among these folks. The important point is to realize one may be among this group and to take the time to learn how the mechanisms of the new press work, how to adjust/tune those mechanisms and how to properly operate the new press.
If one doesn't do this, dissatisfaction is sure to occur.
3.) Lack of decent roller handle compared to a Dillon
Very high quality, better than the Dillon roller handles are commonly available from several aftermarket sources. The Dillon roller handle will fit with very minor tweaks, but why do so when these excellent aftermarket handles are available.
A mistake many press owners make is wanting to buy or source all their reloading equipment from one manufacturer/supplier. This limits what one can get as well as limiting the variety and over all quality of the reloading experience. All the companies out there have good stuff. Once can improve it greatly by mixing and matching.
4.) Die bushings will back out, Hornady will supply shims; they still back out
In a decade of buying Hornady die bushings, I never had a single one back out. If they do back out of some press, it is likely not the die bushing, but the tolerance between the bushing and the bushing receptacle that is the problem. The press should be returned to Hornady for replacement of the die bushing receptacles or Hornady should send out new receptacles.
A simple tolerance/manufacturing issue, easily resolved. One should not accept a bandaid like shims to resolve a manufacturing defect.
5.) Case feeder is an afterthought with many design flaws:
Unlike the Dillon casefeeder, the Hornady case feeder is designed to feed both rifle and pistol cartridges and comes with all the parts to feed many calibers. Because of this, it is not an easy mechanism to adjust because the variety of available parts and Hornady's granted "needs improvement" documentation doesn't explain it well.
To get it to feed properly, the operator should first have a properly adjusted and smoothly running press before attempting to add the feeder.
a.) 9mm will fly off the platform
Only if the feeder is improperly adjusted or the wrong feet/etc. are used.
b.) cases will get caught at the top of the case feed wheel and bind
This is a known design flaw and the fix is available with excellent pictures. The name of the forum escapes me at the moment, but it's a simple fix and with a minor tweak, the problem is eliminated. Shouldn't be there, but there case feeder is a fairly new product for Hornady. Dillon had many renditions of their press before finally settling into the "not perfect either" presses they offer currently and even these presses have had modifications over the years to improve some aspect or problem found in the field.
c.) cases will get caught in the case feed funnel and jam
Not if you've got it setup right and using the correct tunnels. In some calibers such as .40 S&W, one may have to fabricate or get fabricate some adapter parts to get better tolerance between case and case tunnel. Unfortunately, this is where having a case feeder that is designed to feed everything rather than selling caliber conversions for each caliber can cause problems. But the solution isn't a difficult one to come up with.
d.) cases will fly out of the case feed and hit you in the head
If one is slamming one's press around enough to get cases popping out at that velocity, one might consider rethinking how one is operating one's press. Remember, the main object of any reloading press is to produce improved ammunition over what the factory offers. This is true even when one is reloading progressively. If one is slamming one's press around in an attempt to get speed, one probably isn't reloading quality ammunition.
e.) 9mm will not feed into the shell plate without tipping, Hornady sends replacement shell plates but they do not completely solve the problem
This is an adjustment problem and the cause is likely the wrong feed foot. Improperly adjusted press with off time indexing contributes greatly to this problem.
f.) 9mm will not feed into the shell plate fully using the supplied v block
Try another v block, you may be using the wrong one. Hornady's instructions aren't always clear. Additionally, your press timing/auto advance can affect this, as well as the adjustment of your case feeder's cam rods.
g.) cases will bind in the drop feed mechanism
Again, an adjustment, tuning and tweaking issue. Take the time to figure it out. Once you've come to understand the mechanism, polish/tune it up and loctite the permanent parts down, most of these type issues are gone permanetly.
h.) cases will get stuck at the junction of the funnel and drop tube
Again, tune, adjust and tweak. Learn the mechanism.
i.) will not work reliably in any combination with .40 S&W
A known fix with pictures has been posted on this board. To get a feeder that works with all available calibers, you have to pay for "caliber conversions." Again, the Hornady is made to be "once size fits all," but when you buy it, you have to realize it's going to need tuning/adjustment/tweaks. Even mechanism designed to feed a specific cartridges are going to need tuning/proper adjustment/tweaks, so you aren't missing much. At some point, Hornady engineering will likely resolve some of these caliber type issues, but until then and while the feeder is still new, it is going to need some home made resolution.
Since Hornady did made engineering tweaks on the Hornady Projector to improve it to the Hornady LnL, it is reasonable to expect they'll continue to improve their product line. See Dillon history, 300/350 to 550 for an example of this.
6.) 9mm will not eject 100% reliably with EZ eject
Polish the shell plate, properly adjust the auto indexing for smoother operation. Blue loctite pawl screws.
7.) Index pawls will round off and press will no longer index consistently, which is a hard problem to diagnose
Take the time to learn how to adjust the indexing (does take a bit of time, proportional to one's mechanical aptitude, but most folks can resolve this issue permanetly) by carefully going through the auto advance mechanism until the shell plate rotates smoothly and locks into it's detent ball locations without "bounce."
8.) Shell plate bolt will back out if not tightened down tightly, but when tightened down tightly, cases will not eject reliably
This is a tolerance issue and I'm not sure the EzJect nub is the final solution. Modifying the press to eliminate the ezject nub (file it off) and adding an RCBS style ejector (L shaped spring wire with a small set screw mounted in the base plate) may be a better solution. This would not be a hugely difficult modification and would resolve all ejection issues.
I still do not understand why Hornady eliminated the effective ejection mechanism on the Projector, except it may have been a cost reduction effort on the part of the bean counters.
I am in complete agreement with cfullgraf.
All presses have teething pains learning how to use them. I have no complaints about my LNL. I do not have the problems folks have listed. It runs smooth as silk. You do have to properly tighten down the shell plate, making sure you do not put it in a bind, and Hornady has made a few bad ones, especially during the great run on reloading tools where everyone was having trouble keeping up. I have a few bad die bushings as well. One of these days I need to send them to Hornady for replacements.
I do not prime on mine, so I cannot speak to that.
Yes, you can use your RCBS dies on the LNL. There is not a single die I have that I have not been able to use on my LNL, although I had to be creative with a few older ones.
All presses have teething pains learning how to use them. I have no complaints about my LNL. I do not have the problems folks have listed. It runs smooth as silk. You do have to properly tighten down the shell plate, making sure you do not put it in a bind, and Hornady has made a few bad ones, especially during the great run on reloading tools where everyone was having trouble keeping up. I have a few bad die bushings as well. One of these days I need to send them to Hornady for replacements.
I do not prime on mine, so I cannot speak to that.
Yes, you can use your RCBS dies on the LNL. There is not a single die I have that I have not been able to use on my LNL, although I had to be creative with a few older ones.
I appreciate the detailed fix list for the problems I listed. The LNL was my first progressive press and I still have it on the bench, but it is no longer used for any volume caliber. The OP asked for a list of CONS, and I listed the ones I encountered to the best of my recollection, even though I was reasonably satisfied with my press for some time, and only switch to another because Hornady was unable to solve my priming issues. Many issues as you know have fixes, but not all will be easily diagnosed and addressed due to tolerance stack and other issues between presses. The mgf. tolerance control is not as tight as it could or should be coming from wherever Hornady has the machining done on the LNL.
1.) I've put about 54K through my LNL in the past ~3 years, mostly 9mm, so I've tried them all. All the tuning and adjusting and replacement parts from Hornady couldn't get my primers to seat 100% reliably. I switched to Federals and still had 1 in 100 light strikes on my striker fired guns, which is unacceptable to me and I ended up hand seating my primers as a solution for a while, but that just took too much time. No matter the solution tried or offered, my press was mechanically incapable of fully seating primers, no matter how much force or attention was paid to the operation. Others may have different results due to tolerances, etc., but as you see in this thread alone, many choose not to prime on the LNL.....that should tell you something.
2.) Hornady was my first progressive; I had no dissatisfaction coming from another. The shuttle will stick and bind. You can limit this with spit and polish, but not eliminate it completely.
3.) I've tried the Inline Fab. roller handle. It's better than stock, but still not as good as the Dillon. Subjective opinion, but the Dillon handle is longer, wider, rolls smoother and your hand doesn't hit against the ram arm during use due to the design, all at a comparable cost.
4.) I accepted the bandaid solution of shims and added some tape on top of the shim to increase friction. Again, as you metion, a tolerance stack / mfg. variance issue.
5.) Dillon case feeders (for the XL650) will feed both rifle and pistol. I own one and it has been flawless for 22,000 rounds now.
a.) I disagree. The drop tube is not long enough for the short 9mm case to prevent it falling off the side after dropping down to the sub plate. Modification needs to be made to the drop tube to make it longer so the case is unable to fly off. I used PVC tubing, based on a tip off another forum to extend my drop tube to the necessary length.
b.) Agreed. A partial fix is available. I used a spent shotgun shell hull to reduce the frequency of jams, however, another issue that should be addressed coming from the factory, particularly given the cost of the feeder.
c.) I disagree. It's not hard to use the correct parts. On my press, the cases still caught at the funnel junction with the correct parts in place.
d.) Brass would rain from my case feeder while stationary. I reduced the frequency of the issue by taping a cardboard primer sleeve to the opening. Another issue that should be addressed by Hornady.
e.) Not a v-block issue, although the v-blocks are poorly designed and push from the center of the case versus the bottom, exacerbating the issue. This is an issue with the retention spring and shell plates. The rentention spring will protrude slightly causing the case to ride over the bump, hit the shell plate at a 30 degree angle, bind and tip over. Hornady is making a few shellplates that help the issue because they have a deeper, 90 degree square ridge to hold the retention spring down. However, this never completely solved my issue.
f.) I used both the correct v-block and the other v-blocks the Hornady CS rep told me to try when the one mentioned in the manual would not work. None solve the issue completely since the v-block designed for 9mm, in this case, would not function as designed.
g.) I disagree. This is again a case of a design issue. There is no tweaking to fully eliminate this problem without designing a new cam system that better holds tolerances.
h.) Again, a forum fix is available, true, but this is again an issue that Hornady should correct prior to shipment by beveling the drop tube to eliminate the issue.
i.) Hornady engineering should have addressed this issue prior to shipment rather than using customers to beta test their product.
6.) I never did loctite the pawl screws, thanks for the tip.
7.) I did take the time to learn to adjust indexing. My press has a fairly high round count. Hornady ended up sending me a new set of pawls and it addressed the issues I was having and I now keep a spare set handy as well.
8.) I think the ejector wire was a better solution, but given I use a taper crimp die in station 5, I think this would cause more problems than it solves.
Blue68f100
Member
Dave covered it pretty good.
The updated EZEject works well but was rough from machining. I used some fine sand paper on a block to smooth it out, problem solved. Note you must keep the edge 90deg to the base. If you slope it you may have other problems. This base if far superior to the wire ejector they started with.
There is a very simple fix for this that I have used for 3+ years now since I added the case feeder. I use a piece of paper that is held in place with a twist tie. The paper only covers the section opposite of the feeder and extends down about 1/2". This works extremely well.
As far as problems with the pusher foot. A small piece of leather glued to the bottom of the foot will allow the feeder to operate at about 1000/min. So it work perfectly. The problem is the V pusher foots push above the base and tilts it. If you add a spacer or ever a wire to contact the brass lower it's a no issue. The reason I know this works so well is i use it to deprime when I use citric acid to clean brass. If your getting brass to hang on top it's normally due to vibration, shaking of the feeder.
I never have the issue of seating primers. Even with wolf SP that got a bad rap. Yes mine has a dimple but it still seats the without issues. Most of the sled problems are operator error on setup. Once these are adj right and kept clean that work just fine. I did a slight mod to my sleds to allow small amounts of powder not to stop the sled. All I did was round the bottom from off so it was not a sharp edge. Now you still have to keep powder out for it can get into the seater assembly and keep if from going all the way down.
Correct Adj of the index paw is a must, every thing keys off of this.
Problem with 40 cal brass feed has been addressed by Hornady. They have a different upper tube to keep the brass straight so it does not hang. The same thing can be done to any caliber if there is a problem. I used a piece of plastic in mine that works well. The feeder hangs when the brass tilt, keep it from tilting and all is fine.
Dies backing out, the only one that had problem was the powder die using the PTX. The simple shim worked. I had used paper as a shim and it actually holds it tighter.
Dillon has had their presses for 25 yrs longer than Hornady. They still have problems with their primer feed system. You will routinely see where some one set off a primer. This is inexcusable in my book. That have had plenty of time to correct this but they have yet to do it. There fix is not use Fed primers.......
Unless your going to spend 30k for a AP press there will be pros and cons, even on the 30k one. Once you are aware of issue there are normally fixes and tweeks that can be done to correct the problem.
The LNL-AP is a well designed press. A very simple design when compared to others that is out there.
Bowfishrp
Member
My LnL AP is about 4-5 years old now...serial in the 12k range with the older non-ezject and it can fling some 9mm and 223 cases but with some practice you can minimize this with how you pull the handle. Yes, I am getting my older shell plates fixed so I can switch to the ezject system.
I load 9mm, 45, 40sw, 44, 38, 223, 30-06, 308, and others with this press and it works with all of them. The best part is that most of the shell plates handle multiple calibers so its not like you have to buy a different one each time. You do need the bushings but I got a couple of the 10 packs and it was much cheaper in the long run. I also use every brand of die on the market except lyman (nothing against them just dont have one) and they all work great. This sounds stupid but I have only bought Hornady dies lately because their boxes will hold the die AND bushing in them...and the 100 free bullet deal helps.
As for the shell retainer springs, learned to keep extras on-hand. I broke a couple when I first got my press but havent broken one in 2-3 years...dont know if its the press breaking in or me getting more experience with it.
I just got the case feeder and had a problem with the 45 cases getting stuck in the funnel at the top. You can tell it is designed to handle rifle and pistol because of the large funnel at the top. I took a business card and folded it into the top to make the drop smaller and now it works perfectly. I think it needs another feed door (think thats what they called it) on the right side of the tunnel to close it up. Oh and I KNOW I could do a better job with the instruction book! I watched the video on youtube that Hornady made about setting up the case feeder and it was 10 times better than the manual.
Look at it like this...humans are not perfect and the things we build are NOT perfect. We just work with what we have. With that said I really do love my LnL AP press.
I load 9mm, 45, 40sw, 44, 38, 223, 30-06, 308, and others with this press and it works with all of them. The best part is that most of the shell plates handle multiple calibers so its not like you have to buy a different one each time. You do need the bushings but I got a couple of the 10 packs and it was much cheaper in the long run. I also use every brand of die on the market except lyman (nothing against them just dont have one) and they all work great. This sounds stupid but I have only bought Hornady dies lately because their boxes will hold the die AND bushing in them...and the 100 free bullet deal helps.
As for the shell retainer springs, learned to keep extras on-hand. I broke a couple when I first got my press but havent broken one in 2-3 years...dont know if its the press breaking in or me getting more experience with it.
I just got the case feeder and had a problem with the 45 cases getting stuck in the funnel at the top. You can tell it is designed to handle rifle and pistol because of the large funnel at the top. I took a business card and folded it into the top to make the drop smaller and now it works perfectly. I think it needs another feed door (think thats what they called it) on the right side of the tunnel to close it up. Oh and I KNOW I could do a better job with the instruction book! I watched the video on youtube that Hornady made about setting up the case feeder and it was 10 times better than the manual.
Look at it like this...humans are not perfect and the things we build are NOT perfect. We just work with what we have. With that said I really do love my LnL AP press.
zxcvbob
Member
A lot of times the retainer spring doesn't break, it just comes apart at the ends; you can screw it back together. I think I'm still using the original spring (but I have a spare).
The ejector wire on the older presses doesn't work. You can fiddle with it and sort of get it working for one size cartridge, and then it wont work when you switch to something else. I finally just took it off and remove the cases by hand. Supposedly fixed on newer presses, and I could get my old press retrofitted, but then my old shell plates won't fit.
The primer seater doesn't have enough leverage, and doesn't seat deep enough. I think that's probably 2 different problems. Trying to muscle them in place doesn't seat any deeper, so I think there's a mechanical stop (a shoulder) on the back side of the seating pin that needs to be filed-down. That's also why putting a shim under the seating pin doesn't help.
The LNL bushing for the powder measure backs out and comes loose. I haven't had any problems with dies doing that.
I tend to just leave the LNL set up for .38 Specials all the time and load everything else on a single-stage press. For the way I use it, a Dillon SDB would have been a better choice -- although I'm sure it has its own set of peccadilloes.
The ejector wire on the older presses doesn't work. You can fiddle with it and sort of get it working for one size cartridge, and then it wont work when you switch to something else. I finally just took it off and remove the cases by hand. Supposedly fixed on newer presses, and I could get my old press retrofitted, but then my old shell plates won't fit.
The primer seater doesn't have enough leverage, and doesn't seat deep enough. I think that's probably 2 different problems. Trying to muscle them in place doesn't seat any deeper, so I think there's a mechanical stop (a shoulder) on the back side of the seating pin that needs to be filed-down. That's also why putting a shim under the seating pin doesn't help.
The LNL bushing for the powder measure backs out and comes loose. I haven't had any problems with dies doing that.
I tend to just leave the LNL set up for .38 Specials all the time and load everything else on a single-stage press. For the way I use it, a Dillon SDB would have been a better choice -- although I'm sure it has its own set of peccadilloes.
Master Blaster
Member
Quality CONTROL / Tolerances, that is the fundamental issue with the Hornady LNL.
Some folks get a good one where the stars align, most folks get a mediocre press with a couple issues. and Others get a press from hell where all the sloppy tollerances stack against them. And that's why folks experiences differ with the LNL its not all the user's fault or lack of skill in adjustment.
My press falls in the middle group serial number 10,6xx.
Two words for that problem: Teflon tape, a few winds around the LNL bushing will fix that.
I had trouble with my primers feeding correctly. I polished the small & large shuttles with a little Flitz and a buffer wheel on my dremmel. When I clean my press I spray graphite around the primer slide. Problem was solved. I really like my LNL.
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