How strong is Marlin 45-70?

[AJC1]

If you are trying to make an argument or infer I am advocating overloading a rifle or using the Ruger #1 loads for a 1895 I am not going to bite. There are published loads for Marlin (lever) rifles in the literature from reputable companies that exceed the original historic loads and the pressure number from the other post that I quoted.

I have run quite a few HMS and BB +P loads through my SBL. The recoil is just not that bad. Why do we need to exaggerate the .45-70 recoil. If you have a specific load that generates too much recoil for you and you have no need for it then do not load it or shoot it, problem solved.

Good day.

I was infering that no reasonable person could handle hot 45-70 and I provided proof to what a bad idea a listed load for modern lever guns.... no tricks no subterfuge, all bad idea.
The BB 380gnr at 2075 is estimated a 49 pounds recoil. That's stupid.

 

[troy fairweather]

You still repeating this nonsense??? I'd love to hear upon what logic this conclusion is based. I can only guess you're looking at energy which provides a great example of why energy is the poorest metric for measuring terminal effect.

In the real world, Trapdoor level loads get a 500gr to 1200fps and that will penetrate end to end on any Cape buffalo. This is an order of magnitude more effective than the .30-30 and you need serious handloads with heavy bullets for the .44 to compete.

Out of a Marlin at 40,000psi, you can get a 400gr Barnes Buster or a 380gr Lehigh copper solid WFN to 2000fps and that is good for any game, anywhere.

Everything you posted above is patently false.

I'd have to check my books but think I hit 2400 fps with my 22" barrel on my Siamese with 400 gr swifts.

 

[someguy2800]

I'd have to check my books but think I hit 2400 fps with my 22" barrel on my Siamese with 400 gr swifts.

I'm gonna sit that one out

 

[MachIVshooter]

BTW, I found somewhere statement that when Mauser M98 was designed, the goal was to make receiver and bolt so strong that in case of overload, barrel thread will be stripped and barrel should fly forward, but receiver and bolt should stay intact, protecting shooter.

I don't have the time or inclination to go searching for documentation to refute that, but I would expect the bolt lugs to fail long before the receiver or barrel threads.

Sheared Bolt Lugs - Swedish Mauser

m/1896 Swedish Mauser in Australia. Details of failure unknown to me. Those of you with metallurgical experience are most welcome to comment... though I know its hard to make a definitive statement based on such limited information. As with the 1893 Mauser photos I post these photos to...

castboolits.gunloads.com

 

[Onty]

I don't have the time or inclination to go searching for documentation to refute that, but I would expect the bolt lugs to fail long before the receiver or barrel threads.

Sheared Bolt Lugs - Swedish Mauser

m/1896 Swedish Mauser in Australia. Details of failure unknown to me. Those of you with metallurgical experience are most welcome to comment... though I know its hard to make a definitive statement based on such limited information. As with the 1893 Mauser photos I post these photos to...

castboolits.gunloads.com

I was searching about catastrophic failure of Mauser actions, and couldn't find anything about M98, just about M1896. However, I found a thread https://www.shootersforum.com/threa...-failure-loads-for-some-battle-rifles.149754/ about P.O. Ackley testing:

See test in line 6, listed is "8x57 Mauser 1916 Spandau". According to some websites, this is M98 action. As you could see: "Receiver ring ruptured. Bolt lugs still intact. Bolt remained in action. Firing mechanism OK".

BTW, M98 and clones have also a third locking lug next to bolt handle.

In essence, what counts the most is that bolt stayed in its place, didn't go backward!

 

[someguy2800]

I was searching about catastrophic failure of Mauser actions, and couldn't find anything about M98, just about M1896. However, I found a thread https://www.shootersforum.com/threa...-failure-loads-for-some-battle-rifles.149754/ about P.O. Ackley testing:

See test in line 6, listed is "8x57 Mauser 1916 Spandau". According to some websites, this is M98 action. As you could see: "Receiver ring ruptured. Bolt lugs still intact. Bolt remained in action. Firing mechanism OK".

BTW, M98 and clones have also a third locking lug next to bolt handle.

In essence, what counts the most is that bolt stayed in its place, didn't go backward!

Ackley's tests were just single grossly overloaded rounds. Metal will also fail over time and form stress fractures due to fatigue failure even when the load is below the elastic limit of the material. I wouldn't take a rifles ability to handle a single really hot load to indicate its ability to handle repeated high stresses. Its like if you build a new bridge and drive a panzer tank over it once it may not fail, but 50 years of driving cars and trucks over it can cause it to stress crack and fail.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I was searching about catastrophic failure of Mauser actions, and couldn't find anything about M98, just about M1896. However, I found a thread https://www.shootersforum.com/threa...-failure-loads-for-some-battle-rifles.149754/ about P.O. Ackley testing:


See test in line 6, listed is "8x57 Mauser 1916 Spandau". According to some websites, this is M98 action. As you could see: "Receiver ring ruptured. Bolt lugs still intact. Bolt remained in action. Firing mechanism OK".

Are we going to ignore the 1903 Springfield?

BTW, M98 and clones have also a third locking lug next to bolt handle.

I could be mistaken, not a huge Mauser buff and don't recall all the specifics of every variant, but pretty sure the 1903 Springfield is the only common Mauser copy with the 3rd "safety lug"

 

[Show Me]

How can anyone spend time watching that dork on that video. Holy smokes. What a wast of phone battery. 45-70 is always fun to talk about. Brings out lots of opinions. Even armchair types. I handload and experiment with my marlin 1895. I cast 300 gr gc and the Lyman 400 gr. I don't enjoy the marlin loads. I have a Bushnell higher eye relief 3x9 and on my bench it will send your hat behind you. Trap door loads are for me. 5744, Buffalo Rifle and benchmark are leaders. I've never hunted with it. My son in law thinks it's his and deer don't have a chance. Load 300 hdy hollow point at 1900 fps for in the woods and field edges , 150yds and in. Dead meat. One time his intended 10 point jumped a ditch and the bullet hit a button buck in the rump and dropped it right there. I put that head way up in the barn for ever.

 

[Onty]

I could be mistaken, not a huge Mauser buff and don't recall all the specifics of every variant, but pretty sure the 1903 Springfield is the only common Mauser copy with the 3rd "safety lug"

There are others direct copies, or slightly modified M98 actions; Santa Barbara, FN, Serbian M24/M48/M70, Brno/Zbrojovka, Husqvarna 1640, could be more. One thing I like on later Brno/Zbrojovka and Husqvarna 1640 actions is that the cut for case ejector isn't through left lug, but bellow it.

 

[doubleh]

Scott is one youtuber I can watch because he's usually funny. He does do some crazy ----, one stunt which came close to killing him. Firearms authority he isn't, tough dude he is.

I have no experience with the lever action 45/70 rifles. I am careful of how much recoil a rifle has as I want to protect my surgically repaired shoulder, an experience I never want to endure again. Also there is nothing anywhere close to me that requires that much power to take care of.

 

[CraigC]

It's not my favorite but I can watch Scott because he's entertaining and doesn't take himself too seriously. I cannot stomach demolition ranch. Too many YT channels are just goofy or about like dealing with that mouthy know-it-all at the local gun shop.

 

[tjmga]

I was searching about catastrophic failure of Mauser actions, and couldn't find anything about M98, just about M1896. However, I found a thread https://www.shootersforum.com/threa...-failure-loads-for-some-battle-rifles.149754/ about P.O. Ackley testing:

See test in line 6, listed is "8x57 Mauser 1916 Spandau". According to some websites, this is M98 action. As you could see: "Receiver ring ruptured. Bolt lugs still intact. Bolt remained in action. Firing mechanism OK".

BTW, M98 and clones have also a third locking lug next to bolt handle.

In essence, what counts the most is that bolt stayed in its place, didn't go backward!

Correct me if I am wrong but I think thee 1916 Spandau was a small ring M98 action.