OK, as a gun consumer since about 1978 (I was about 12 and bought a 1911 Colt .45 and a Walther P-38 to go with my Luger) who has spent a LOT of money on guns and as a dealer for the past couple years I feel qualified to know this topic pretty well from both sides of the table.
I offer the following merely as a general guide to help you be more successful in your firearms purchases by offering some insight to the other side of the equation.
This is advice, nothing more.
1. Know your guns. Research your intended purchase. Know the exact model and specification of your intended purchase whenever possible. Despite the myth dealers don't know everything. Being more, or as knowledgeable, about your intended purchase lets the dealer know he is dealing with a intelligent customer and prevents the accidental purchase of what you 'thought' was what you really wanted. There is nothing wrong with asking the dealer for his recommendation of a gun for a specific use, but knowing what you want is always better.
Try and use correct terms and know what the specifications actually mean if you are gonna use them. In other words if you are talking about a clip, you better be referring to your Garand. Also save the "I was a member of Delta" stories for your buddies. It is sorta entertaining but it gets old and it's hard to take anything you say after that seriously, even when you are right.
2. Remember the dealer is a person and treat him as such. True money talks but aholes often pay full retail. If you go into a shop with the attitude that they are nothing but rip off artists looking to hose you, you can just about guarantee that is what you will get. The reverse is also true, if they treated YOU like some cheapskate ***** who is gonna cry about every dime how much are you gonna actually spend there?
I know a couple guys who are flat broke but genuine 'good guys.' I never make what I feel my time is worth when I deal with them, but I never feel bad for doing it anyway. There is also a local dealer down here who is so obnoxious that I have actually been in his store TRYING to spend money on guns but left empty handed. He is one of the largest stocking dealers down here but a complete *****. If you ever want to be treated like a shoplifting child molestor while paying full retail + 10% his store is the place. I politely refer all of the people I choose not to do business with to his store.
3. The price is on the tag. With the exception of gun shows you should expect to pay the price on the tag. The dealer has decided that is what he wants or believes he can get for that gun. If you can find it cheaper somewhere else EVERYONE (including the dealer) knows you will. There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking, or trying to make a deal, but Wal Mart or SGN prices have nothing to do with what the dealer believes he needs to charge for his guns to still be in business next month.
If you feel the need to be a Arab Trader this is the secret...package deal. If you just bust his balls because his SKS is $155 and you saw one in SGN for $140 the only reason he may meet that price is so you will leave. And you really won't be his most favored customer after that. If you want to wheel and deal effectively buy your accessories and ammo and work out a overall deal with minor discounts on each item.
Dealers as a rule buy various stuff from various sources and pay individual shipping charges, etc. on each order. The opportunity to do a package deal is very tempting as a result I know I have more room to negotiate on a gun, base, rings and scope package than on a rifle alone. Also most dealers LOVE setting someone up with a complete package and will usually work with you since you are obviously a serious shooter with money to spend.
4. Be careful about asking for recommendations. While there is nothing wrong with asking a dealer what his opinion is, remember you are gonna get HIS opinion complete with biases and personal preferrences. For CCW guns I love high capacity 9mms, you might find you prefer a 1911 .45 after you already spent your money. Use dealer recommendations only for the most general things and remember firearm choices are very personal. What is good for me might not be good for you at all. If you do ask for a opinion, get a "why" as well.
The only real dealer recommendations are those of price. "What can I get for X amount of dollars?" This keeps a dealer from wasting your time with the Kimber catalog if your budget is only $495.
5. Remember the golden rule. It never ceases to amaze me that the same guys who are crying about the dealer who tried to screw them are also most proud of the junky gun they sold for way more than it was worth. Don't try and screw the dealer, it ain't any better than the rip off scum bag POS who tried to screw you. Everyone has a stake in a deal, and everyone wants the best deal but you can still negotiate politely and respectfully. If you can't work it out, you can walk away from the table dignity intact.
I've respectfully declined many sales and purchase offers. If I told them to f off many would not have returned at a later date with something I was actually interested in. Most dealers are willing to take trade ins, etc. but I'm probably not interested in buying your Jennings and applying it toward the Armalite you wanted.
And finally.
There are exceptions to all of the above. Despite your best intentions or motives, there will sadly always be people with a "F You" attitude. These people for some reason never feel good about the deal unless they honestly believe they have "f-ed you." It's sad but I've seen it time and again.
They include the customer who isn't happy until he believes he has bought the gun "at or below" your cost thereby guarateeing that you in no way profitted from him and that he in no way actually supported your chosen business and of course the dealer who just isn't happy until he has gotten 'crackhead prices' for your collectable firearms or had sold you a commonly available firearms at MSRP + $100.
It doesn't matter if these people bought or sold at acceptable current values, they ain't happy unless somebody (besides them) lost big. It's a long way from just being happy to have gotten the "one you've been looking for." A wise man once said "The appreciation for the quality firearm in your collection will remain long after you have forgotten what you actually paid for it." Conversely..."A piece of sh*t is still a piece of sh*t even on sale."
God I miss the gun trade of the 1980s.
Hope this helps.
I offer the following merely as a general guide to help you be more successful in your firearms purchases by offering some insight to the other side of the equation.
This is advice, nothing more.
1. Know your guns. Research your intended purchase. Know the exact model and specification of your intended purchase whenever possible. Despite the myth dealers don't know everything. Being more, or as knowledgeable, about your intended purchase lets the dealer know he is dealing with a intelligent customer and prevents the accidental purchase of what you 'thought' was what you really wanted. There is nothing wrong with asking the dealer for his recommendation of a gun for a specific use, but knowing what you want is always better.
Try and use correct terms and know what the specifications actually mean if you are gonna use them. In other words if you are talking about a clip, you better be referring to your Garand. Also save the "I was a member of Delta" stories for your buddies. It is sorta entertaining but it gets old and it's hard to take anything you say after that seriously, even when you are right.
2. Remember the dealer is a person and treat him as such. True money talks but aholes often pay full retail. If you go into a shop with the attitude that they are nothing but rip off artists looking to hose you, you can just about guarantee that is what you will get. The reverse is also true, if they treated YOU like some cheapskate ***** who is gonna cry about every dime how much are you gonna actually spend there?
I know a couple guys who are flat broke but genuine 'good guys.' I never make what I feel my time is worth when I deal with them, but I never feel bad for doing it anyway. There is also a local dealer down here who is so obnoxious that I have actually been in his store TRYING to spend money on guns but left empty handed. He is one of the largest stocking dealers down here but a complete *****. If you ever want to be treated like a shoplifting child molestor while paying full retail + 10% his store is the place. I politely refer all of the people I choose not to do business with to his store.
3. The price is on the tag. With the exception of gun shows you should expect to pay the price on the tag. The dealer has decided that is what he wants or believes he can get for that gun. If you can find it cheaper somewhere else EVERYONE (including the dealer) knows you will. There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking, or trying to make a deal, but Wal Mart or SGN prices have nothing to do with what the dealer believes he needs to charge for his guns to still be in business next month.
If you feel the need to be a Arab Trader this is the secret...package deal. If you just bust his balls because his SKS is $155 and you saw one in SGN for $140 the only reason he may meet that price is so you will leave. And you really won't be his most favored customer after that. If you want to wheel and deal effectively buy your accessories and ammo and work out a overall deal with minor discounts on each item.
Dealers as a rule buy various stuff from various sources and pay individual shipping charges, etc. on each order. The opportunity to do a package deal is very tempting as a result I know I have more room to negotiate on a gun, base, rings and scope package than on a rifle alone. Also most dealers LOVE setting someone up with a complete package and will usually work with you since you are obviously a serious shooter with money to spend.
4. Be careful about asking for recommendations. While there is nothing wrong with asking a dealer what his opinion is, remember you are gonna get HIS opinion complete with biases and personal preferrences. For CCW guns I love high capacity 9mms, you might find you prefer a 1911 .45 after you already spent your money. Use dealer recommendations only for the most general things and remember firearm choices are very personal. What is good for me might not be good for you at all. If you do ask for a opinion, get a "why" as well.
The only real dealer recommendations are those of price. "What can I get for X amount of dollars?" This keeps a dealer from wasting your time with the Kimber catalog if your budget is only $495.
5. Remember the golden rule. It never ceases to amaze me that the same guys who are crying about the dealer who tried to screw them are also most proud of the junky gun they sold for way more than it was worth. Don't try and screw the dealer, it ain't any better than the rip off scum bag POS who tried to screw you. Everyone has a stake in a deal, and everyone wants the best deal but you can still negotiate politely and respectfully. If you can't work it out, you can walk away from the table dignity intact.
I've respectfully declined many sales and purchase offers. If I told them to f off many would not have returned at a later date with something I was actually interested in. Most dealers are willing to take trade ins, etc. but I'm probably not interested in buying your Jennings and applying it toward the Armalite you wanted.
And finally.
There are exceptions to all of the above. Despite your best intentions or motives, there will sadly always be people with a "F You" attitude. These people for some reason never feel good about the deal unless they honestly believe they have "f-ed you." It's sad but I've seen it time and again.
They include the customer who isn't happy until he believes he has bought the gun "at or below" your cost thereby guarateeing that you in no way profitted from him and that he in no way actually supported your chosen business and of course the dealer who just isn't happy until he has gotten 'crackhead prices' for your collectable firearms or had sold you a commonly available firearms at MSRP + $100.
It doesn't matter if these people bought or sold at acceptable current values, they ain't happy unless somebody (besides them) lost big. It's a long way from just being happy to have gotten the "one you've been looking for." A wise man once said "The appreciation for the quality firearm in your collection will remain long after you have forgotten what you actually paid for it." Conversely..."A piece of sh*t is still a piece of sh*t even on sale."
God I miss the gun trade of the 1980s.
Hope this helps.
