"The Call "

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federal1

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When you purchase a firearm at a dealer and fill out the " form" who exactly
does the dealer call to get "approval" for your purchase ?

Who ever they call do they keep records of who's buying what and how many they are buying?

I know the dealer is asked if it's a rifle or handgun. Does that info get collected somewhere ?

Thanks
 
It depends on where you're at. Some states will go direct to the FBI's nics number, some states have their own investigative service that the checks go through.
 
I've always wondered why they need to know the type of firearm and serial number if they aren't keeping an (illegal) database. If all the far end is doing is saying yes/no to a firearm purchase then why do they need anything other than the purchaser's identifying info?
 
serial number and make/model? Never heard that while buying a gun. I listen and it just the usual info, but I have heard the pistol/long arm question before, and it doesn't bother me. It would however, if they said Bushmaster AR-15 serial number XXXXX-XXXX etc. That would raise my eyebrow a bit...
 
Let me refine my question

Does NICS know how many firearms you purchase. ?

Does your name come up with the history of how many NICS checks
you have been involved in ?

Just curious .
 
As a sales person at an FFL, I can answer most of this.

Who exactly is called depends on the state. Ohio and most other states phone directly into the NICS hotline. Some states, Georgia being an example, I think, have a state run line that links into NICS eventually.

The purpose of this is to ID whether you're a person on the FBI's felon/domestic abuse/nut-job list.

From my understanding, all NICS check info are removed from the system every 30 days. This can cause multiple gun purchases in a short time to cause a delayed response (i.e. two handguns in a week, etc) as it flags as suspicious and warrants a supervisor at NICS to make closer look. I've had one guy who had guns stolen from him come up as a delayed while the investigation was being done.

Now, as to the info sent... Everything on the first page of the NICS form is sent, minus the "yes/no" questions. Those are more for the sellers to use to weed out the obvious. Then again, what reasonably intelligent felon is going to answer yes to that?
On the back page, the type of gun (handgun/longgun) is the only part sent.
The gun's make, model, or SN are not sent. Your ID info is also withheld.

Again, from my understanding of the NICS system, how many guns you've purchased is only tracked within the time-frame allowed by the NICS law, which I'm fairly certain is 30 days from a purchase. After that, the NICS law requires that info to be removed from the system. So the actual call into NICS is not registration, but more like asking if there's any reason not to sell person X a gun.

Where you get into a question of registration is the actual NICS form. These cannot be destroyed except after 20 years in the ownership of the FFL. If an FFL shuts down or loses their license, they have to send those forms to the ATF for all eternity, or until the revolution, whichever first.

Suppose a gun is used in a crime. They can get the SN off the gun any number of ways. They then use the Manufacturer's transfer info to track the gun. From manfacture to warehouse to retail, the gun has to be logged in and out of a bound book at every stop. This makes tracking easier to the ATF than computerizing the record, as it removes mistakes at the NICS data entry end. At the point of sale, there's a 4473 or there's hell to pay. The 4473 obviously has your name, address, etc on it.
The only hole in this system is the Face to Face transfers idea. Since no paperwork is filed, they can't track it past the last person to fill out a form. That's why the Antis want to close that. But then again, if you sell a gun to someone who's a felon, there's a good chance you're going to jail also. The last person the ATF comes to in the investigation is going to jail, so make sure you get a receipt and at least a name off a driver's license when you buy or sell FTF.
 
Thanks fierocdsp, that about answers all my questions.
The thirty day time frame is something that I was interested in.
If anyone has anything else to add I would like to hear it.

Thanks
 
Every time I've heard them call mine in (in TN) they give the serial number and it's been in several different shops.
 
Here in Alabama, we call the NICS hotline in West Virginia. We NEVER
have to give make, model, caliber, or D/L number. Once the NICS
operator has all the information, there are three things that may
happen-

1) Proceed
2) Delay the transaction for further review
3) Deny the transaction completely

If a person has been fingerprinted at some point in their life, this usually
raises "red flags"; and a NICS supervisor overlooks the transaction. And,
some persons will get delayed every time for no apparent reason; while
others will receive a PROCEED without fail.

Sometimes, especially on the week-ends NICS operators can get really
swamped with calls from FFL's; which in turn can cause a delay.
 
If a person has been fingerprinted at some point in their life, this usually
raises "red flags";
and a NICS supervisor overlooks the transaction. And,
some persons will get delayed every time for no apparent reason; while
others will receive a PROCEED without fail.

Can you elaborate. All of us with CCW have been fingerprinted. (At least in GA)
 
I would like to hear more about "fingerprints"
I was printed for ccw for the army and for my gov't job.

Thanks
 
Every time I've heard them call mine in (in TN) they give the serial number and it's been in several different shops.
It looks like TN goes through the TBI. You could probably poke around this page http://www.tbi.state.tn.us/divisions/isd_tics_stats.htm and see what all is gathered for each call to TICS. At quick glance it looks like they want your name, race, sex, dob, pob, state of residence, address, state issued id number, make, model, type, caliber, serial, and your thumb print. The dealer can destroy the thumb print after a year
 
Unfortunately the NICS law only sets the minimum requirements, and states that have their own system are free to toss in a few more items to make you itch. I wasn't aware Tennesee was so picky.
 
Found on FBI website

Is this true ?

Title: New FBI NICS Proceed 24-Hour Destruction Period

Section 617 of the 2004 Consolidated Appropriations Bill, passed by congress in January, dictates that the NICS implement a 24-Hour destruction period by July 21, 2004. This requires the destruction of all identifying information in the NICS Audit Log relating to a lawful purchase within 24 hours of delivering the "proceed" message to the Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL).

FFLs will no longer be able to contact the FBI NICS Section and reference a previously Proceeded NICS Transaction Number (NTN) to a current delayed NTN, on the same subject, to help expedite the final status on the delayed transaction. Within 24 hours after the FFL is notified of the Proceed status (by the start of the next business day at 8:00 a.m.), information will be purged from the system and the FBI NICS will only maintain non-identifying information on the Proceeded transaction. The FBI NICS will not have access to any of the buyers identifying information (name, social security number, miscellaneous numbers, and etc.) after the FFL being notified of the Proceed status.

Should you have any questions regarding the new 24-Hour destruction, you may contact the NICS Section Customer Service at 1-877-444-6427. As always the NICS Section appreciates your continued cooperation and dedication in the furtherance of public safety.
 
The bit about fingerprinting being cause for delays is incorrect. I held government issued security clearances for job related reasons many years ago. I also had fingerprints taken for employment in a teaching situation, as well as for a CPL. I have never been delayed or denied for a firearm purchase. I have even bought more than one pistol on the same sale, and not been delayed.

I can't tell you what causes delays, but I know that fingerprinting is not reason in and of itself to do so.
 
One of Many is correct. During the last 20 years of my work life, I was fingerprinted and investigated an average of once a year. I recently applied for a CCW (fingerprints required) and it was granted in record time. I buy handguns when I see one I want. Never been a problem with the calls.
 
Here in Texas they call no one, I have a CCL. To get that, and to have it renewed I must be fingerprinted. I have also been fingerprinted for US Govt Security clearances since late 60's, as requirement for military commission.
Never had a problem purchasing a gun.
 
Congress has ordered the FBI to destroy the NICS database no less than three times since its implementation.

Whether or not it's been dismantled and destroyed in its ENTIRETY is a topic of much debate. One could argue that it serves Homeland Security to keep the backups, yet one could also argue that it's a crime to ignore congress.

Whether or not it's actually been destroyed is anyone's guess. A leap of faith to believe it has, but if you believe that it hasn't... then you're a fanatical pro-conspiracy gun nut. It's up to each of us to determine what we are, I guess. :)
 
For any interested and/or who dont know, here in OR they call goes to the state police.Here, sadly, they DO give the make, model serial number and caliber of the gun when calling, like some others have mentioned hearing.I BELEIVE, again sadly, that the state police here DO keep sme kind of record of the purchases, but I dont know what they keep, or for how long, etc.I keep meaning to look into it, but havent, as it's not like it matters.This is where I live and work, so I dont have much choice in the matter if I buy thru an FFL hear, so....
Other than that and having closed the "gun show loophole", OR actually has some of the best gun laws in the country.Somehow our couple resident rabid anti-gun legislators managed to get those 2 pieces of crap thru, while what little else has been tried got smacked down hard and quick....
 
Thank George Bush and Congress and AG Ashcroft for getting NICS records destroyed in 24 hours. The antis and liberal MSM ranted about it BIG time. Boy we have short memories. AG Ashcroft was drug over the coals for his GREAT support for the 2nd amendment. Ask Ted Kennedy, Schumer, Feinstein about it.
 
I am willing to bet that the records on the Federal level are destroyed.

I'm also willing to bet that the NICS system has the most sophisticated backup-and-restore system any techno-geek can imagine.

Jim H.
 
Thank George Bush and Congress and AG Ashcroft for getting NICS records destroyed in 24 hours.
I think we can thank Ashcroft, but Bush had nothing to do with it. Ashcroft got his job DESPITE his strong pro RKBA beliefs. Bush is at best neutral on the issue (just look at both the AGs since Ashcroft ... no way Gonzalez would have pushed for the 24 hour record life, and Mukasey is no better).

I miss John Ashcroft.
 
...so, Bush gets no credit for the good things Ashcroft did, but is clearly culpable when his SG files an anti-Heller brief?

Anyway, thanks for the reminder about Ashcroft pushing for the 24-hour purge of the NICS info. Learned something new.
 
I used to get delayed a minute or so & sometimes 5 to 10 minutes every time, but that has not happened for quite a while, and I have bought more guns than ever in the last two years. Go figure.
 
During the last 20 years of my work life, I was fingerprinted and investigated an average of once a year. I recently applied for a CCW (fingerprints required) and it was granted in record time. I buy handguns when I see one I want. Never been a problem with the calls.

I will second this - I had security clearance for Peace Corps of all things. We needed to know the embassy evacuation plans (in San'a, Yemen), since we were technically part of the embassy. We were a little skeptical that the US Navy would divert a carrier group into the Red Sea under hostile fire to pick 25 Peace Corps Volunteers :), but we still had to get the clearances.

Since we had an initial FBI check to be accepted into Peace Corps, and another when were in country, that means I've had at least two clearances from the FBI with fingerprints.

At any rate, they had my fingerprints, and my dental records, etc.

I have purchased a number of weapons over the years, and never had a burp from NICs.

Maybe the poster who claimed that fingerprints were a problem meant "fingerprints related to a criminal investigation"?

Mike
 
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