How to choose a shotgun?

[JAshley73]

Hello folks - first time poster here, and wanted to say hello. I've been reading lot's of the stickies and the invaluable 101's by Mr. McCracken - A huge thank you to you sir.

Obviously I'm interested in shotgunning. Particularly clay games for now, and later perhaps some small game birds. This will be my first gun purchase, so it will also pickup the Home Defense duties - more on this later. My intentions are to buy said gun, buy ammo, practice drills and attempt to wear it out at the range. Now on to the queries...

The first issue, and one I've read is most important when buying, is the "fit" of the gun. For reference, I'm 6'0", 185ish, average (American) build. Now, I'm a little confused about what to look for here. And some of the answers from different sales folks have been, well, less than informative. I feel like I've almost never worn pants before, and am asking a clothing salesman how my first ever pair of pants should fit. You can imagine my confusion here... One old-timer gave me what seemed like a helpful starter. His words; "Close your eyes, put the stock in the pocket of your shoulder, bring the stock up to your cheek, and open your eyes. You should be looking down [slightly over?] the barrel." In the store, a few models of a particular Italian brand seemed to feel [sight?] nicely. Such a shame they were so dang expensive...

Question number 1 is... How do you know when a particular gun "fits?" Will you just get that magic feeling? Is there something specific to look/test for? Should I see a gunsmith (or gun tailor?) to be measured, and use my measurements to use as a starting point? And closely related; should the availability of drop/cast stock shims be used as a factor to sway me towards one gun over another?

Second issue, is caliber. I know this is largely subjective, so I apologize if it seems redundant. Any reason to choose a 12g. over a 20g? Being as I'll be shooting the clays and on range for a long time, I can't see much practical reason to need a 12g. But I can't really see much case for a 20g. either. As the nature of the shooting dictates, I'll be using lighter (the lightest?) loads of either caliber for quite some time. I doubt my wife (5'4", average ladies build) will be using this much at all, so that's not too much concern. If she picks up any interest, we'll consider her own gun.

Question number two is... Any distinct reason to side with 12g. or 20g? Actual recoil, ammo availability, ammo price, gun resale, physical punishment? I'm open to consider all factors here.

Third issue, is action vs. recoil... I've decided on a semi-auto for a number of reasons, but I'm a little confused about the recoil effects of gas-operated vs. recoil-operated actions. From reading on THR, it seems like gas operated guns help reduce recoil by their very nature. My mechanically minded brain accepts this as reasonable. However, some of the salesmen have touted Benelli's inertia-operated actions as reducing recoil. Scientifically this doesn't compute with me. It seems like their inertia-operating mechanism would simply be reacting to the recoil, and not absorbing or opposing it. And all three Benelli's that I held were very lightweight too, so again, without shooting them I would be inclined to believe that they would transmit a lot of recoil to the shoulder. I attribute some of this sales talk to them trying to sell me a more expensive gun, so I am naturally skeptical. (The Benelli's are also about twice my initial price range by the way, so they weren't even considered until I picked one up...)

Question number 3... Do gas-operated actions really offer a benefit over recoil-operated actions in terms of recoil? I am particularly skeptical of this Benelli system as well, so if there are any owners who have shot both, I would really appreciate your feedback.

Issue number 4 deals with storage, and home defense. I'm not sure how to safely store a shotgun and let me be a little more specific. No kids here, nice walk in closet to keep it in, and can even be hidden behind lots of clothing. In other words, I'm not worried about it falling into little or wrong hands when we're home. What I am concerned about is being stolen should someone break in, or worse, walking in on thieves who now have my loaded shotgun pointed at ME. (Side note, this is one argument for buying a carry Pistol first, which my wife wants me to do by the way.) For storage I have considered buying or making a rather simple vertical rack, with provisions for locking. Other obvious choice would be a gun safe, but how much is enough? (I realize this is another discussion altogether.)

Question number 4 is... On storage, what's acceptable? Hidden in a corner? Locking rack, or a safe? I will obviously have to factor this price in with the gun purchase as well...

Issue number 5, related to home defense. Shotgun at all? My house is kind of small, having one large kitchen/dining/living space, with three bedrooms and a bathroom sharing a single, 22' hallway. My point being, it won't take long for the intruders to make their way from any entry door, down the hallway and into the bedroom(s) where all the good stuff resides. There may be only seconds to react, so perhaps a shotgun safely locked away (for above reasons) won't be possible to access.

Question number 5 is... So for home defense, would a Pistol on the nightstand be a better (read quicker) choice?

I apologize for being long winded and asking so many questions to start. Hopefully I've provided some useful info, that seems relevant and can be helpful. I look forward to hearing your feedback, and to be a new member of The High Road. Thanks folks!

-Justin

Oh, and one last thing I haven't figured out yet. What does BA/UU/R stand for?

 

[throdgrain]

Buy Ammo Use Up Repeat

Basically I think it's fair to say a lot of people buy shotguns, but dont use them enough and wonder why they dont hit things!

More practice = more success

 

[tarosean]

What does BA/UU/R stand for?

Buy Ammo-Use Up-Repeat

12g will have a better ammo selection at any store.

Fitment is an individual thing so get as many shotties in your hands as you can.

HD I personally prefer Handguns but many like Shotties and Rifles.

If children are of no concern, (even Visiting ones) than store anywhere you feel conformable.

 

[Virginian]

Congratulations for not falling for the mystical recoil reduction qualities of the inertia action. They didn't come up with those two piece stocks for nothing. A good gas autoloader is the only action type that will actively attenuate recoil. Stick with a name brand gas semi and you should be okay. Also, gas actions usually work reliably over a much wider range of loads without adjustments. You do NOT need a 3-1/2" chambered 12 gauge. However, a 12 gauge is a good starting point. Wider variety of guns and ammo available easily. A 12 is usually a bit heavier so will recoil less with the same loads, and has the capability of throwing a lot heavier loads should the need arise. I usually use a 20 for everything but waterfowl and sometimes clays now, but if I could only have one gun, it would be a 12. It was for a long time.
As to fit, unless you go to an experienced gunfitter, is tricky, particularly with a new shooter, because they don't have a consistent gun mount down pat yet. Your eye is the rear sight, so when you throw the gun up you want it to be pointing where you want to shoot. 99% of shooters shoot a factory gun, and most of those have similar dimensions. You brain and body will adapt to some extent, and your size is close enough to the norm that you shouldn't have any exorbitant needs.
For home defense it needs to be very ready to go, right now. I am not at all in to the short barrel tactical guns. In one breath they tell you to hole up, and then they say you need a short barrel for maneuvering. If they get past the dogs and the .44, my duck gun will have to do.
As to storage, any professional thief is going to break in to anything but a good safe, but they will set you back more than a gun. A trigger lock will secure the gun in place. For a long time my guns lived under my sofa.
Good luck.

 

[Pete D.]

Fit

About fitting a shotgun....
There is an old saying that is related to this idea, to the effect that "you don't aim a shotgun, you point it."
Virginian, in his previous post alluded to this when he noted that when you mount the gun, you want it to be pointing at what you are going to shoot.
Proper gunfit insures this....provided that the shooter knows how to mount the gun and does so consistently.
There are five measurements involved in fitting a shotgun - Length of Pull (LOP), drop at comb, at heel, Cast, Pitch) To do all of these, you need to see a gunfitter and use a device called a "Try Gun".
Expensive.
The most critical of the five, though, is LOP and you can get very close to that yourself. There are a number of ways to determine LOP - I'll mention one. Other folk may chime in with other methods.
First, it is helpful to know what the LOP is on the gun in question (carry a tape with you when you look at different SGs and measure what they are.)
You measure from the trigger (front trigger if there are two) to the center of the buttplate or recoil pad. On most factory guns, this will be 13-14 inches. That may be fine - or close enough.
I bought an old Parker SXS that mounted wonderfully well. I couldn't hit with it consistently. I measured its LOP and found that it was 13" inches. My own LOP (done with a Try gun) is 15 3/4". That is quite a difference. I was able to lengthen the stock without altering the old gun so that it was 15 inches; wearing what I do when hunting or shooting Trap added a bit more....now I hit with the gun way more than I miss.
Measuring - remember that there are different takes on this - take a tape and, holding your arm out and bent at the elbow, measure from the first joint of your trigger finger (nearest the finger tip) to the inside of your elbow joint.
That should be close....I am within 1/4" of mine when I do this.
Choice of gun.....just about any of the guns mentioned will do. Go for a longer barrel - 28 inches is a standard length - since you mentioned an interest in the clay games. Maybe a pump gun is a good choice because extra barrels are readily available for many of them if you should want a short barrel for a home defense role. Remington 870s and Mossberg 500s are very popular and reliable. 12ga. is the best choice...there are more loadings for it than any other gauge - from low recoil to loads that will drop an elephant.
Pete

 

[RPRNY]

First, if you intend to spend less than $2K for what will be a relatively high volume clays gun, your decision to go with a gas gun is a smart choice. You should get a 12ga, all other things being equal, a 12 ga will throw a better pattern than a 20 ga and while you may decide down the road to shoot 7/8oz loads in 12, a 20ga will limit you, generally to 1oz loads at most, and will hamper competitiveness in Sporting Clays and Trap (although not really in Skeet). At 6' 185, unless something is oddly out of proportion, you are likely going to want a 14 1/2 to 14 7/8 " LOP - which is covered my most gas guns worth buying, most of which will have adjustability from @ 14" - 15" as well as cast with stock shims. The Old Timer's advice you got on fit is pretty darn good.

Value for money, the Beretta 3901 is an excellent choice. Dick's and a few other big box stores have had them at $599 in recent months. It really is the best value for money going. Others you may want too look at - abut now you are heading north of $1K include the Winchester SX3, Browning Maxus, and Remington VersaMax, and other, more expensive, members of the Beretta 39x series. As per above, you don't need a 3.5" chamber unless you really intned to do a LOT of pass shooting of geese and small aircraft.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Welcome, J.

1.Your shotgun fits when you can hit the targets and do so in comfort.At your size and build, most factory stocks should jive fit you. Tweaks can dial things in, just take your time.

2. Except for waterfowl and turkey, there's little the 12 does a decent 20 cannot.

3.Yes. What a gas action does is lengthen the push over a longer time,shortening the pressure spike. I note Benellis,while fine shotguns, kick a lot.

4.Get inventive. One friend keeps his 870 in a golf bag with a few old clubs stacked in a corner. I've been known to hang an 870 inside a walkin closet over the door on hooks, but that takes some tall on the part of everyone who may need to reach it.

5.Shotguns are perhaps the BEST CQB weapon ever, when employed by SHOTGUNNERS. Whether it's the best option for YOU is not something I can determine.

W/W is not a shotgunner. She does shoot a D/A handgun better than most cops. So, there's some of those deployed around Casa McC. So are some shotguns, because while I'm fairtomiddlin' with handguns, I'm more effective with the shotguns here. For me, though not Wonderful Wife, it's the better choice.

And you're very welcome. It's nice to know I helped you....

 

[JAshley73]

Thanks to the replies thus far. All this reading at THR has paid off.

Unfortunately I probably won't be able to shoot chosen gun before buying. Finding chosen gun locally, available to rent or shoot a used one, has proven to be difficult. Thus, the fit is entirely subjective to my new perceptions of what feels "comfortable." As Virginian noted too, my beginner's-inconsistent mounts sort of muddies' the waters as to how well I'm sighting down the rib when I mount the guns. But as you all have noted, I would imagine that my build falls into that majority in which standard size shotguns were designed for.

My shopping list of guns- Feel free to correct my reasoning here, as this has directed my window shopping. I started looking at the Remington Auto's, based on their name-brand popularity. However, after reading/searching on THR it seems the can be finicky with lighter loads. I noticed a lot of people recommending the Winchester and Browning Gold Autos for their wider diet of load sizes. The Winchesters (SX3) are less expensive, so I've really been eyeing out the Winchester SX3 line. They are gas operated, (supposedly) friendly to all load sizes, and felt OK at the store. Their synthetic stock models offer cast/drop shims as well, although I have a preference to wooden furniture.

I've also considered the Mossberg 930, which seems to have favorable reviews from owners, but seems to lack some of the good looks and adjustability of the Winchester, should I need it. It's also nearly half the price, as well. When it comes to shotguns, does "You get what You pay for" really apply here? I've had two different people tell me to choose the Winchester over the Mossberg, without too much strong reasoning. I'm thinking for my first (and long-term) gun, should I not be making compromises? Maybe the Mossie would be a good 2nd gun, for friends, or the wife perhaps to use?

I will also check out that Beretta RPRNY, thank you for the reccomendation.

With regards to gun storage, I'm going to have to do some more evaluating. I personally don't want to fool with racks and safes, but my biggest fear is having the crooks find it, pointing at me should I walk in during the middle of it all - I realize this is the slimmest of possibilities as well, so perhaps If I came hope to find some unwelcome intruders, we'd simply stay in the car and call the police. (Whom are just minutes away by the way.)

Ok, that's enough for now. Thanks folks, you've given me lots to chew on.

 

[DAP90]

Unfortunately I probably won't be able to shoot chosen gun before buying. Finding chosen gun locally, available to rent or shoot a used one, has proven to be difficult. Thus, the fit is entirely subjective to my new perceptions of what feels "comfortable." As Virginian noted too, my beginner's-inconsistent mounts sort of muddies' the waters as to how well I'm sighting down the rib when I mount the guns.

Something to consider would be any of a number of shotguns that include shims for adjusting fit and the availability of aftermarket recoil pads to adjust for length of pull. That way, as you learn to mount the shotgun it can change with you. Beretta semi-autos usually come with shims (I’m not sure about the 3901’s) and many recoil pad makers make one to fit their models.

I don’t know if Browning, Remington or Winchesters have the shim option but it would be a question worth asking at the LGS.

 

[Virginian]

Remington 1100s are not at all finicky with any 2-3/4" loads. 11-87s can be a little bit with light loads when they are still new and stiff. Note Remington says anything from 1-1/8 ounces of shot up through 3" loads. A lot of people like the mouse fart loads lighter than that and have issues. I have never come across one yet that wasn't completely broken that I couldn't get running without any machining required.