Thernlund
Member
I know the feeling.
-T.
How to deal with a forcible rape?
- Thread starter Old Guy
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I know the feeling.
-T.
Sans Authoritas
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Colorado, aye, I do keep up on history, and I'm thoroughly familiar with Constitutional law. I learned under the best. I understand it, which is why I respect the intent behind its creation, but I am no longer able to take the Constitution seriously. (Which is probably one of the many reasons we don't see eye to eye.)
And I do like logical consistency in stories . . .
-Sans Authoritas
And I do like logical consistency in stories . . .
-Sans Authoritas
Gentlemen,
This is the Strategies and Tactics Forum. Please confine your posts to on topic comments.
If you wish to discuss the constitution, please take it to legal.
Jeff
This is the Strategies and Tactics Forum. Please confine your posts to on topic comments.
If you wish to discuss the constitution, please take it to legal.
Jeff
Thernlund
Member
I think Sans means the he is unable to take the current IMPLEMENTATION of the Constitution seriously. I'm sure we all take the original document seriously.
-T.
-T.
Sans Authoritas
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Therlund, your interpretation was off, but we should take this to PM's to discuss it.
-Sans Authoritas
-Sans Authoritas
I'm with you - I get angry just thinking about this topic.
But, depending on the circumstances, what you describe could get you a charge of voluntary manslaughter. Sad.
Sans Authoritas, Thernlund, JWarren, coloradok...please do open up a thread in legal on your side-bar. Off-topic it may be but it's darned interesting.
You can attempt to stop it, and moraly it would be the right thing to do.
You should however refrain from use of your weapon.
Many people get thier kicks from abnormal sexual behavior and various forms of role playing.
Sex in public places is one of them. Things that would resemble rape to most is another.
If you did harm someone having sex with thier lover it is very likely the lover would in fact be a star witness against you, perhaps even giving a false report of the facts in a way that could mean the end to your freedom.
That can even happen if it really was rape you witnessed. There is a number of women that would and have saved men that beat them from thier would be rescuer, and even helped disarm the rescuer or helped thier lover/husband/boyfriend to retaliate in an attack.
Police officers have dealt with that scenario many times in domestic situations. Come to the rescue of someone only to find both parties turn on them.
The parties might have a love/hate relationship and be abusive to eachother, but you are just a total stranger harming the person they love, and often a person they would miss afterwards (meaning they can also sue you and resent you after the fact.) Just imagine yourself in a scuffle with said guy and her helping to get your gun away from you. Such things happen.
There is a large number of very screwed up relationships out there.
That means while expecting appreciation for a rescue you can recieve more than the opposite.
So stop it if you really believe it is rape, but unless it is a family member or someone you know personaly, be very hesitant to use force or put yourself in a vulnerable position to EITHER person, the perp or the victim.
The outcome can be anything but logical.
You should however refrain from use of your weapon.
Many people get thier kicks from abnormal sexual behavior and various forms of role playing.
Sex in public places is one of them. Things that would resemble rape to most is another.
If you did harm someone having sex with thier lover it is very likely the lover would in fact be a star witness against you, perhaps even giving a false report of the facts in a way that could mean the end to your freedom.
That can even happen if it really was rape you witnessed. There is a number of women that would and have saved men that beat them from thier would be rescuer, and even helped disarm the rescuer or helped thier lover/husband/boyfriend to retaliate in an attack.
Police officers have dealt with that scenario many times in domestic situations. Come to the rescue of someone only to find both parties turn on them.
The parties might have a love/hate relationship and be abusive to eachother, but you are just a total stranger harming the person they love, and often a person they would miss afterwards (meaning they can also sue you and resent you after the fact.) Just imagine yourself in a scuffle with said guy and her helping to get your gun away from you. Such things happen.
There is a large number of very screwed up relationships out there.
That means while expecting appreciation for a rescue you can recieve more than the opposite.
So stop it if you really believe it is rape, but unless it is a family member or someone you know personaly, be very hesitant to use force or put yourself in a vulnerable position to EITHER person, the perp or the victim.
The outcome can be anything but logical.
Came upon a sexual assault in progress once at about 0300 while walking a beat around town. In the missonary position a well placed size 12 boot seemed to work very well with handcuffs thereafter quickly utilized. Of course I was dealing with a single assailant who was so occupied at the time he had no idea I had walked up behind him. Must say it was one of the most satisfying uses of force I can recall.
DarkSoldier
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I know it's a little late but I just wanted to respond to something SomeKid said in his post.
"First, is she special to you (related for example)?"
The simple answer is, yes she is, no matter who she is. She is someone's wife or daughter or mother or sister.
And not to put to fine a point on this, but I think it needs to be said that being ignored by bystanders while being raped wasn't part of the equality package you referenced.
My guess would be that if a woman you cared about was in such a situation and you were not there to protect her, you would not be too happy if someone who was there and could have helped, just turned and walked away and "maybe called the police" because she was no one special to them.
If I seem hardnosed about this it's just that I've been too close to too many of the victims of this sort of thing to take any other stand. I am my sister's keeper.
Respectfully,
DarkSoldier
"First, is she special to you (related for example)?"
The simple answer is, yes she is, no matter who she is. She is someone's wife or daughter or mother or sister.
And not to put to fine a point on this, but I think it needs to be said that being ignored by bystanders while being raped wasn't part of the equality package you referenced.
My guess would be that if a woman you cared about was in such a situation and you were not there to protect her, you would not be too happy if someone who was there and could have helped, just turned and walked away and "maybe called the police" because she was no one special to them.
If I seem hardnosed about this it's just that I've been too close to too many of the victims of this sort of thing to take any other stand. I am my sister's keeper.
Respectfully,
DarkSoldier
mgregg85
Member
I'd stand back about 10 to 15 feet with my weapon out and pointed at the ground and tell him to stop immediately and lay down on the ground. Watch your surroundings too, you never know if he has a friend or partner in crime off to the sides watching or taking a break or what not.
If you have a cell phone you should call 911 first, then intervene and let them listen over the phone to what you say so you will have proof that you acted responsibly. Best case scenario is he will comply or get up and run away, let the police handle it after that. If he gets up and approaches you threateningly or threatens the victim with potentially lethal bodily harm then I would start shooting until he no longer poses a threat. Once again, even after you've shot watch your back and sides, don't get tunnel vision or think its all over just because the first threat is down.
I don't know about the law in Florida but I do believe Michigan law allows lethal force to stop sexual assault.
If you have a cell phone you should call 911 first, then intervene and let them listen over the phone to what you say so you will have proof that you acted responsibly. Best case scenario is he will comply or get up and run away, let the police handle it after that. If he gets up and approaches you threateningly or threatens the victim with potentially lethal bodily harm then I would start shooting until he no longer poses a threat. Once again, even after you've shot watch your back and sides, don't get tunnel vision or think its all over just because the first threat is down.
I don't know about the law in Florida but I do believe Michigan law allows lethal force to stop sexual assault.
mg.mikael
Member
That would really suck for the person trying to intervene, no pun intended.
Well...if she's on top, you can always start singing "I'm a Wheel Watcher'' or some other 'mindvirus' tune, and it'll be a real mood-killer...and thus succeed as a harmless-enough intervention...
If both are female, or both male, or one of each with him on top, or if it's hard to say, or regardless...a Garden Hose turned on full blast, is also a good choice. That stream of hard hitting cold Water has long been the traditional recourse for lots of things...and does well as a 'spell breaker'...
As does a good 'Round House' Punch...
It all depends of course...it's all 'Judgement Call' stuff...
If both are female, or both male, or one of each with him on top, or if it's hard to say, or regardless...a Garden Hose turned on full blast, is also a good choice. That stream of hard hitting cold Water has long been the traditional recourse for lots of things...and does well as a 'spell breaker'...
As does a good 'Round House' Punch...
It all depends of course...it's all 'Judgement Call' stuff...
ShadyScott999
Member
Lead asprin?
Zoogster has a good point here.
I once kicked down a door and almost suffered serious physical damage at a fraternity house (not mine) to save a girl because of pleas of help from her Sorority sisters and her screams. Afterwards she thanked me for saving her.
3 Hours later she went back to the same house to "hang out"! Later I was hit up to pay for the door and the Fraternity threatened to press charges. Luckily I had about 15 witnesses for my side of the story. The "victim" strangely didn't recall being in danger and wouldn't be a witness.
So yeah there is a danger to defending others. I'd rather be punished for doing the right thing than regretting letting a girl get raped.
rbernie
Contributing Member
How about a 'rape' that turned out being an adulterous affair caught in the act?
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-03-31-womanindicted_N.htm
In this case, the wife was charged and the husband was not. Nevertheless, there is no doubt that the husband killed a person under gravely mistaken circumstances.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-03-31-womanindicted_N.htm
Things are often not what they seem to be.
In this case, the wife was charged and the husband was not. Nevertheless, there is no doubt that the husband killed a person under gravely mistaken circumstances.
One of my CCW instructors related an incident where early one evening he was passing a park when he heard cries and sounds of a struggle. He ran to investigate and discovered what appeared to be a rape in progress. He was armed but decided to use his cell phone instead. The police responded in minutes and discovered that the “rape” was really two very kinky people having consensual sex. He reminded us that there is no way to call a bullet back once you fire it – advise I have never forgotten.
When we first moved to Australia in 1965, we lived on a Hostel, a Civilian Army accommodation like establishment.
One night, 11 PM, huge commotion across the street, Kids just screaming!
I ran over, kicked a door open (it fell down, I walked over it, rocking on the door knob) what I thought was an assault on the kids was a fight with Wife, slapping of face, both on the couch, kids in side room.
He jumped up, I punched him, hard, back to my cubicle for sleep.
Not something I would have got involved in, other than via loud shout, but kids? made a difference. Standing behind him at breakfast (Sunday morning) him with this huge black eye, was a bit embarrassing!
Rough days. The 60s.
One night, 11 PM, huge commotion across the street, Kids just screaming!
I ran over, kicked a door open (it fell down, I walked over it, rocking on the door knob) what I thought was an assault on the kids was a fight with Wife, slapping of face, both on the couch, kids in side room.
He jumped up, I punched him, hard, back to my cubicle for sleep.
Not something I would have got involved in, other than via loud shout, but kids? made a difference. Standing behind him at breakfast (Sunday morning) him with this huge black eye, was a bit embarrassing!
Rough days. The 60s.
Mad Chemist
Member
No your thread hijack is spent. Please cease and desist it's bad form.
The very apt in general summary apprecitation, would seem to be that situations one may come upon, or situations which may develop around one, or situaions one is alerted to for there being loud voices or screams or yelling or other noises, are not always well defined, or readily interpretable, as for who is 'who', and as for what is actually happening...upon which one would base an intervention or referee service.
Some situations, seeming impositions, apparent predations, persons engauged in fighting or struggle or poised with a weapon drawn or out...may indeed be unambiguous...others, may not be what they appear.
Personally, those few times when I have intervened in other's affairs, I did so at some fifteen feet distance, at-ready to draw, and, with the best humor or courtesy I could muster, if nothing else than to say, very smartly, "Time to STOP! And give this a rest for now..." Left Hand 'palm' out and up as if to emphacise the 'STOP!' aspect...right Hand ready to draw...and, a look of eye and face which says, "...good natured, but don't kid yourself about being able to take liberties!"
Seeing then what eventuates.
This can be very dangerous!
Beware!
Have your own escape route, cover, or strategy, or ready-TO-draw-and-shoot, in mind.
Things can happen fast
Some situations, seeming impositions, apparent predations, persons engauged in fighting or struggle or poised with a weapon drawn or out...may indeed be unambiguous...others, may not be what they appear.
Personally, those few times when I have intervened in other's affairs, I did so at some fifteen feet distance, at-ready to draw, and, with the best humor or courtesy I could muster, if nothing else than to say, very smartly, "Time to STOP! And give this a rest for now..." Left Hand 'palm' out and up as if to emphacise the 'STOP!' aspect...right Hand ready to draw...and, a look of eye and face which says, "...good natured, but don't kid yourself about being able to take liberties!"
Seeing then what eventuates.
This can be very dangerous!
Beware!
Have your own escape route, cover, or strategy, or ready-TO-draw-and-shoot, in mind.
Things can happen fast
Travis Bickle
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- Dec 20, 2008
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- 476
What we are talking about here is what's called a "Romeo and Juliet clause." Almost every state has one enshrined in it's criminal code, but the specifics vary from state to state. Some states legalize it completely, others merely say that it's a valid defense in court, and others keep it totally illegal, but reduce the charge from a felony to a misdemeanor. The age range varies also.
Deanimator
Member
Ohio law allows me to defend another with lethal force, if were I in that person's place, I'd be allowed to use lethal force to defend myself.
As others have pointed out, be SURE. Don't get involved in domestic disturbances, it's almost never worth it.
As others have pointed out, be SURE. Don't get involved in domestic disturbances, it's almost never worth it.
SuperFlanker
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I would do nothing. It is none of my business.
- Status
