How to get into the industry?

[redneckhutch]

Hey everyone!

You guys can call me Hutch. This will be my first post on this site. I have been a ghost lurking in the shadows reading post and trying to find answers to my question or curiosity. Let me tell you a little bit about me.

I am currently 20 years of age and currently going to college. My family is full of small business, my brother is doing landscaping and my father owns a CNC machine shop and is currently running a wholesale motorcycle part company, as well as an aftermarket archery product company.

Now onto my question, growing up I always wanted to get into the firearm industry in some way. I first started when I was like 13 saying I wanted to own a my own shop. Then as I got older I wanted to manufacture products which could be used within the industry. I even looked into getting into ammo manufacturing (yeah, I decided that will be a no). Then looking into casting bullets or perhaps making high quality brass, or even making chassis's for those long range shooters. Then the most common be a gunsmith. As you can see my mind as been all over the place. What part of the industry would be able to support a new business? Really looking for something like a side hustle to help pay for college and perhaps one day scale it to live on.

Thanks for your time! Lets trying to keep this post with positive ideas. I can't be the only person who has wanted to do this. So lets get to chatting!

 

[Texas10mm]

The best way to make a small fortune in the firearms industry is to start with a large fortune.


There are plenty of people who have started small and ended up making a living at it. You have to identify a need and fill it. Then be prepared for the Chinese to knock off your product and sell it for pennies on the dollar.

There's a difference between a "gunsmith" and someone who just replaces parts on an AR. Sadly here in the US anyone can hang out a sign and call themselves a gunsmith. In many countries in Europe there's a defined path to becoming a gunsmith. It starts with the basics and ends up with your building a firearm from scratch, to include all the woodwork and bluing the firearm. There are four NRA approved gunsmithing programs in the US. https://gunsmithing.nra.org/find-a-school/ That's a good place to start if your interested. You can start by learning to use a file. Grab a chunk of steel and file a 1" cube out of that chunk. If you can do that you might be able to be a gunsmith.

Casting bullets is a path, but it's a lot of work and there's a lot of competition out there. What could you bring to the table the other casters can't? Same goes for brass. There are a couple of places that can make just about any brass you need. It's not cheap, nor can it be when you're milling brass out of a rod. You would first have to determine how much demand is out there that's not being filled. For standard common brass you would have to meet or beat Starline, Jamison, and a couple of others. You could join the crowd and sell sorted and cleaned range brass.

Not to be a Debbie Downer but there's a lot of research you need to do.

 

[boom boom]

Find a niche that is not already occupied or become known as the best gunsmith on a particular firearm so that people around the country use your work. One example of that is the severe lack of Colt DA gunsmiths now or even people that can make the cowboy guns (for SASS competitions) sing with trigger and action smoothing in an area where it is popular. The 1911 field is pretty crowded but some specialize in particular types of competition accurizing. And so forth. Thus, to get into gunsmithing at the top end, after learning what you can from a formal gunsmithing program, hire on as apprentice to a known gunsmith shop such as Cylinder and Slide etc. which means relocating after your schooling. Don't forget to learn business practices.

But there are other paths as well,
For example, some folks make a gunsmithing tool and sell them off ebay (see Wally Cooper in oregon for example), others make something like sight pushers for military surplus, one guy sells Mosin accurizing kits and how to do it, another Mcarbo sells inexpensive trigger spring upgrades for mass market .22 LR Rifles, some make holsters. One thing that might become popular is making reproduction parts (things like barrel bands, sight bases, screws, etc.) for military surplus rifles as the old surplus warehouses are running dry for a lot of models. These sellers such as Numrich already have a distribution network but rely on subcontractors for manufacturing.

Ammo production or even certain types of firearm stuff gets involved with the State Dept. ITAR permits and regulations and the BATF, neither of which is much fun. Become educated when that line is crossed.

 

[tark]

Your biggest problem will be name recognition. No one knows who you are, or what you can do. Getting your message out to the world, and getting them to take notice, is the hardest thing IN the world.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

Do something simple and sell it on Amazon, eBay or Etsy.

More than likely it won't scream craftsmanship but it can cartainly be firearm related.

Realistically that's the easiest way to get into selling something pertaining to guns.


That's the easy part. The hard part is the idea, and that will determine how much money you are able to make.

 

[jmorris]

I would avoid the AR market place. If you want to “kill it” in the market place right now figure out how to restore blued firearms like the Colt custom shop does.

You will make a lot of money and be backed up with work for more than a year, as soon as word gets out.

 

[ScrapMetalSlug]

I would look into something related to using CNC machines that can you fabricate or something with 3D printing. Something related to wildcat calibers that doesn’t have much support. For example, I recently bought a jig for cutting cases to create new brass for a wildcat 277 Wolverine. The jig appears to be something machined from a small aluminum block. I also bought a case trimmer from another small time shop online that sells them.

I would think the important thing would be trying to find your niche, something small and specialized and do it really well. I wouldn’t chose something common that a lot of people are doing or try to compete with the big names or you will not be very profitable or successful. Choosing a niche to focus on that doesn’t require having an FFL will make things simpler at first too.

Names mean a lot in firearms. It takes alot longer to build a reputation that it does to ruin one. Look at marlin/Remington for example.

I would start getting involved with the firearms community to identify some needs. Either competing or going to shows like Knob Creek etc. firearms is really a diverse topic.

 

[Bill Raby]

About only place I can see a profit in the gun business is custom building. Not AR-15. It would have to be something rather specialized that not many others are doing. Problem is that it takes a lot of tools and you would need to be very highly skilled. Problem with gun business is that there are quite a lot of people that want to do it. Lots of competition in it. Forget about anything that is just sales unless you have about $50 million to start up something that can compete with the big internet retailers.

First step is to get a job and start working in the gun business. You need to learn. Success will require skills that others don't have. Find a shop doing specialized work and offer to work for free or minimum wage in exchange for learning how to do the work.

 

[Pat Riot]

I don’t have advice on a product or a service but I do have a couple things for you to keep in mind.

No matter what, be honest. If you can do something in a certain amount of time then, by all means, promote that. But if you tell people that you can do something in a certain amount of time and you cannot and you do that often, people will talk and your reputation will be impacted.

Just the facts. If you create a product don’t embellish it when describing it. Just tell the facts. Be honest. If you make a good product people will buy from you again and they’ll tell their friends.

Gun people love to support gun people, but they can also be a fickle bunch. Just because you think something is the greatest in the planet it doesn’t mean others will too.

If you do develop a product do yourself a favor and listen to folks when they tell you what they think. Many times that old codger standing across a gun show table from you has forgotten more about guns than most people know. You can learn a lot listening to folks.

Another recommendation is that once you create something get into experienced shooters hands and listen to their feedback. I am not talking about your Dad and your aunts and uncles. I mean perfect strangers, folks you meet at gun stores or shows. Show it to gunsmiths and sales people. A caveat here though, don’t be to forthcoming with too many folks because copy cats can and do ruin a venture before it gets of the ground, like the gentleman said about the Chinese. People will steal your ideas. If an idea is good enough check into patenting it and trademarks could be important as well.

Not trying to overwhelm you but you need to look at many different things when trying to start something like this up.

I do think what the other guys said about going to a good gunsmithing school would go a long way in helping you with credentials. You could create a really cool widget but if you have no experience or training, no lending institution or business will talk to you without verification that you have a clue.

Good luck to you.

 

[Tinman357]

Hutch. Welcome to The High Road. Greatest bunch of people ever.

So, you want to break into the gun business, yout dad does CNC. Dude, you have it made.

Niche products. Aftermarket parts that won't attract the big boys. Take the long view, keep your prices down. Make some profit. But get into it for the long haul. Get a solid foundation.

For example. Make and market a replacement metsl trigger for the Remington R51. The thing flopped out of the gate. Rem mostly made it right, but you market s metal replacement trigger, you will do well.

Follow this and other boards for common complaints you can address.

Metal followers for the entire Kahr line up. Do that one right, you'll make good money.

If someone offers a fix for something, see if you can do it better. Cheaper. The money comes in volume sales.

Do it right, youll sell thousands of R51 triggers. Tens of thousands Kahr followers.

Make a decent metal mag release for Glock. I'm not the only one that hates the plastic thing.

Follow the reviews on new guns. Listen to online complaints and that will give you about a milion ideas.

 

[Labguy47]

I would have to say that you need to focus on a particular aspect to guns, then make the best one out there. Take holsters for example. Anyone can mold kydex but not everyone has the vision of Fobus, then Blackhawk came along and improved it by adding a finger release switch.
I guess what I’m saying is find your nitch and fill it.

 

[jar]

One area that is lacking is rapid turnaround on replacement parts for old handguns, especially stuff like screws that get buggered up over the decades. Recently I wanted to replace the cam lock screw on my Webley Mark IV but none of the sources online for used parts had any in stock. The screw is not the kind of thing you can find at Home Depot or Lowes; British Whitworth threads and a concave slot in the head designed to fit a British Tuppence not a flat head screwdriver. I found someone in North Carolina who said he could make one but did not have a sample on hand. I sent him the buggered head one and a Tuppence as a guide and two days later he sent me a perfect blued replacement.

Work like that can be very profitable and a constant challenge. But find a niche you feel comfortable within; don't think you can duplicate every part ever made because until very recently things were simply not standardized. Pieces from one handguns often would not fit in a different sample of the same gun without being hand fitted and finished. And don't be afraid to ask to get paid what the item is worth including ALL of your time itself. If you will not make money on a project, don't take on that project.

 

[BSA1]

The best way to ruin your love for something is to turn it into a job.

Try to make connections with someone that can get you into the annual SHOT Show. You will see a lot of products and meet a lot of people that are in the industry.

 

[George P]

I know a few folks who cast lead bullets and shot. They scour and scrounge, melt and cast, box and sell. Since they are small time operations they do not have the overhead costs associated with larger corporations. A lot of folks make holsters and grips, but that is a VERY crowded field. If you have the land, opening a gun/archery/shotgun type of range/club; but if you do not have the land initial start up costs are high.

 

[IlikeSA]

Niche markets are a good place to look. Like the poster above said, hard to find parts are a good start. I'll even give you a few examples.

Brass bead sights for the Redhawk or Super Blackhawk. I've scoured eBay for them, got one set, but if you see them they go as high as 80 dollars.

Revolver cylinder machining: a lot of Ruger cylinders are dimensionally off. If you can correct them with good turn around at a fair price, that may attract interest.

Aftermarket mags for rifles that are not ARs. CZ mags for the CZ 527 are 40+ dollars. Invent a mag that will hold more rounds and be cheaper.

 

[BigBore44]

I think custom replacement parts or true custom gunsmithing. As was stated, assembling an AR is not gunsmithing. You need to learn how to smooth actions, build and checker custom fancy wood stocks and grips, truly blue a nice rifle, and even tailor hand loads for those rifles to fine tune accuracy. Learn to not just repair, but refine a weapon to something better than it was.

Another option is to make rare parts like Jar said. Custom made screws are easy to manufacture. But you will need to research the correct dimensions.

Your dad having a machine shop is great. But do you know how to use the equipment?

The internet is your best friend. But it can be your worst enemy as well. If you make a product, stand by it. Or people will rip you to shreds online. And then there goes your business. When you decide what you want to produce, make a nice website and hire a photographer to take highend pictures of your product.

 

[entropy]

The best way to make a small fortune in the firearms industry is to start with a large fortune.

Sad, but true.
As for being young and wanting to 'work in the field' BTDT. I started working on guns at 14, and still do, though only for myself and friends now. I could be making money working on old Colts, as I was good at it out of need, but I don't particularly like doing it, so I don't. I got some very valuable training on certain platforms in the US Army, and could be churning out AR's to order right and left, but don't. I've made a few over the years, but they're not a big deal to me.
A young man came in to where I work, (nothing to do with guns, he needed glasses; I work in the optics field) wanted to start a shop making double rifles out of O/U shotguns. If he were having any success at it, I'd have heard by now. I'm sure he's doing parts replacement and building AR's to put food on the table, <Seinfeld voice> Not that there's anything wrong with that.</Seinfeld voice> but be preapred for the realities of the 'gun trade'. Finding a niche as others have mentioned, and becoming the best, or very, very good at it is the best way to achieve success in this business, but be prepared to work at a lot of other things, i.e., maybe work for that brother that has the lawn care business part-time.

 

[bassjam]

What are you going to college for? The best way to get "in" to the firearms industry would be to co-op or intern with someone. You'll learn stuff, get paid for it, and will be able to add it to your resume. You may even get hired by that company.

Other than that, Tinman357 nailed it. Leverage the CNC shop your dad already has. Browse the various gun forums out there and find something that a bunch of people wish existed. You might have better luck on specific forums that focus on a certain make or model than a general gun forum like THR. Design that part, make a prototype that people like, and then do a group buy on that forum. Make quality parts and make sure your customer service is great. Then repeat with something else that people want. If your stuff is good enough you can keep selling it on eBay or even Amazon or even your own website.

 

[George P]

You might also consider becoming a sales rep for one of the big companies like Remington, Ruger, Browning, etc.; they can make pretty decent commissions

 

[BSA1]

Go to college and get a Liberal Arts degree in Business along with computer classes. You have to be business smart to know how to make a profit. The reality is when you put a pencil and paper to your ideas well it may not add up the way you hoped.

As a example my Dad and Brother have a corn roasting trailer that they occasionally take to County Fairs, etc. It is a simple process of roasting ears of corn along with baked potatoes but neither one of them have any business sense. I asked my Dad once what cost to hook up the machine to his pickup before they pull out of the driveway. He gave me totally blank look and I tried to explain that if he does not know the cost of his gasoline, wear and tear on his truck, cost of insurance, the expected life of the corn roasting machine and labor how will he know if they are making any money. All he can still tell me is how much cash they bring home at the end of the day. Well they don't have any idea which is a shame because my wife and I both agree that they could have a profitable part-time business if they managed it right.

As commented the firearms industry is huge and you need to narrow it. For example I know a gunsmith who keeps busy making release triggers for trap shooters. There is enough demand for his work that he doesn't have time to do much other work.

The first and most important question you need to ask yourself is do you want to spend your time shooting such as hunting, competition, recreation or in a shop making and selling stuff for other people to go shooting.

 

[mm93]

I'd recommend trying to get a job at a local gun dealer to start. Get in as many hours as they'll let you work, and learn as much as possible. I started out helping a local small gun shop as a volunteer back in the 60's, and learned a huge amount about various guns, and how a shop operates.
After a stint in the military I came home and went to a different career field, but always kept my hand in the gun market. I eventually got an FFL, and also took gunsmithing classes to be able to learn, and do small repairs. Wish I'd taken the gunsmithing further, but I get by OK with what I took.
I eventually started buying and selling firearms as a side business and enjoyed the heck out of it. I never did get to the point of opening my own shop, but that sure isn't a regret. I preferred to do it as a hobby and part time income, and I still do so.
But getting your feet wet is the first step. If you can do so, and continue your college, that's great. But if you want it to become your career, I'd change from college to a gunsmithing school where you'll learn the trade well.

 

[Hunter86004]

I've often wondered if there would be an opening for a small business in the manufacture of obsolete rimfire ammo. Seems to me, the technology wouldn't be much different than that needed to manufacture .22 lr ammo, just larger.

With access to cnc equipment, you could probably design and build any tooling necessary at a reasonable price.

 

[RecoilRob]

The BIG problem with starting just about anything in the Gun Industry will be insurance costs...especially at first. Just because you only build 1000 bullets a week you still are liable for each and every one of them...plus having to comply with Federal and State (and possibly Local) rules/regs with fees/permits/bribery needed just to get started. If you could come up with something that didn't require all the paperwork...it would be a plus.

I can give you one possible product: The Walther G-22 bullpup rifles were only sold here for a short time and magazines are not available for any price. But....the P-22 pistol has the same mag body and follower with the only difference being the base plate. If you reproduce G-22 baseplates you'd sell a few for sure. But again this business will be fickle in that once you identify a 'need'....then satisfy all the people who have that 'need'....then you're sitting on your hands and investment. Like back in the 1800's where axe manufacturers were going gung ho as everyone heading West needed an axe, but once the people who were going had gone....and the fact that a good axe will last generations....they all went bust.

If you are going to College....you almost guaranteed will be thinking about things a bit differently once you get out, so learn all you can and keep thinking of an idea (which might be for anything in any field) rather than trying to lock in on the gun business. It might happen for you...but many, many have had the same dream and ended up losing their butts. Gunsmithing is a skill that few have to be really good ones and you must demonstrate this skill before anyone will send anything to you. If you develop this skill and even if you don't end up working in the gun field....there are LOTS of people looking for workers who can do good work.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Ever since the .17 WSM came out, I have wanted a .22 version of it that would use the vast selection of .224 bullets that are out there.

This is quite niche but here is the reason I want one. On state land here in GA and many other places you have to use small game weapons to hunt hogs during small game season. Rifles are limited to rimfires. .22 mag is OK with good shot placement but .22 WSM using premium bullets would be quite nice for penetration on an errant shot.

 

[JONWILL]

Transfers.
Knew a guy who used to call small shops and buy up bulk items. Resell them online