How to legally buy first gun?

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MrX

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I've been reading and lurking here for a couple weeks and haven't seen this question specifically addressed, so I've signed up to ask...

What are the different ways to legally purchase a gun? I live in VA and have read a bit at packing.org. I understand the steps to get a permit to carry a concealed weapon and such, but I don't understand the actual steps to purchase a firearm.

For example, I know that I can go to a gun store and do a background check, get fingerprinted, etc and buy the gun there. But, what if I buy a gun from a private party? What about at a gun show? What must be done?

I'm in my mid-30's and haven't purchased or owned a firearm for about 15 years. At that time, I lived in Indiana and I could just walk into my local gun store and buy a shotgun and walk out without doing any paperwork at all. My uncle was a big gun owner and would buy guns (long and pistols) at gun shows and locally through classifieds and as far as I know he never had to fill out any paperwork. He had a permit to carry a concealed weapon and I remember being with him when he got pulled over...he simply showed his permit and the officer never asked to see the gun or ask where it came from.

I'm a perfectly law abiding citizen with a family and have nothing to hide. That being said, I consider myself a libertarian and don't like the idea of being fingerprinted and registering my property with government. Is this still possible today? Is it still legal to buy a gun from a friend, neighbor, etc, or from a gun show, and not have to jump through hoops to purchase a firearm which I consider my 'right'?
 
From a private party, it depends who it is. If they have an FFL, then you have to do the regular paperwork, but if they don't, I don't think you have to fill out anything. Gun shows the same way. I'm sure the rest of the members can correct me if I've erred here. I hope not... ;)

I don't think that you have to get fingerprinted in VA, and I don't think that they register it either. But then again, I haven't ever bought a gun from a store (see above and guess), so I may be wrong.
 
Yes, I see on packing.org that fingerprinting is up to the local jurisdiction that grants the permit.

And yes, I always see the media ranting about how gun shows are horrible because they allow unregistered sales blah blah blah. Like I said, I haven't bought or owned a gun for a long time, and even 15 years ago I had only purchased 2 shotguns for which I just walked in, paid, and walked out. I did go to a few gun shows with my uncle when I was young, and I remember him doing the same thing...just picking what he wanted, paying, and that was it. It seems the laws are much stricter now and I just want to make sure I'm legal. For example, if I buy a gun from a private party in the classifieds or from a trader forum (such as here), I don't need to jump through hoops as long as the person selling isn't a dealer?

I suppose I should visit a couple gun shows, but wouldn't I look like I'm paranoid or a wannabe criminal if I start asking who will sell me a gun without doing paperwork, fingerpinting,etc?

Most of the documentation on legality that I read is in regards to legally carrying a firearm, not so much with the purchase.
 
Two sets of regulations to follow: State and federal. Too much to list here but a quick take would look like this: Federal requires that you be a resident of the state where you buy the gun (it is legal to buy a long gun from a dealer in another state but it's rarely done due to the requirements for sale), be of a minimum age (18 & 21 for long guns and handguns), not be "prohibited" (as in a felon or under court order), and submit to the background check. This is assuming you are buying from a licensed dealer. Private party sales are generally governed under state law.

State laws will vary. California requires all sales go through a dealer (except Curio & Relic long guns which are exempt and may be sold directly by individuals). Most other states place few if any restrictions on private party sales. Some states require a license to own a gun. New York and Illinois come to mind. Some state limit the number of guns you may buy. Again (surprise surprise) CA limits buyers (the law abiding, only, since crooks don't obey laws) to one per month. I don't know how this is supposed to reduce crime.

I have no idea what the laws are in your state. You might check the attorney general's web page for gun law info, or drop by a local gun shop for some tips on state requirements.
 
Yes, I see on packing.org that fingerprinting is up to the local jurisdiction that grants the permit.
Click to expand...
That's way out of date. As of last July, there are no more local gun laws.

I suppose I should visit a couple gun shows, but wouldn't I look like I'm paranoid or a wannabe criminal if I start asking who will sell me a gun without doing paperwork, fingerpinting,etc?
Click to expand...
It depends on whether the seller has an FFL I believe, if not, no paperwork, if so...4473 form. Which isn't too bad. And no fingerprinting.
 
In Vriginia you walk into the shop (or go to a gun show) fill out the Federal form, fill out the state form, wait for the check to go through, and walk out with a firearm. Nothing else.
Funny how our crime rate is so far below Washington and Maryland.
 
Funny how our crime rate is so far below Washington and Maryland
Click to expand...

No, not funny at all.


Another consideration from state to state: is there a mandatory waiting period (MD considers this a "cooling off" period so that people don't buy a gun and murder their ex's in a fit of blind rage)

Some states have a limit of one regulated firearm per month (regulated firearm is usually defined as a handgun or some type of assault weapon) You know - to keep people from buying hundreds of guns legally at retail price to sell to people who can't buy one legally themselves. It must be working since so very few criminals and convicted felons have guns.
 
IIRC, VA has no background check requirement for a VA resident purchasing a firearm from a fellow VA resident. Just show each other your VA drivers licenses to confirm residency ;) and you're good to go.

Buying from a gunstore in VA: just walk in with picture ID proving your address and a second form of proof of your address, pick out what you want, haggle on a price, agree to buy, fill out the paperwork the dealer gives you, he makes a phone call on the spot, you're out the door with your new firearm.

No registration, no waiting period. Fun stuff!!
 
Sparticus pretty much nailed it. In VA, a private-party sale requires NO paperwork. As a practical matter, when I sell a gun to another individual, I write out a simple bill of sale to record each party's ID and address. That way, in case of future shenanigans like a gun stolen or even falsely reported stolen, the legal sale can be proven. But ordinarily, the paper trail stays in my files.

Any Class I FFL holder must submit the purchaser's ID and info from Form 4473 (which the buyer fills out) to a telephone background check in the NCIS. There can be up to a 3-day wait for that to happen, but usually it takes only one brief phone call by the dealer and the sale can be completed.

As of 1 July 2005, all local governments in VA are legally denied the authority to enact or enforce any local laws addressing sale or possession of firearms. Thank God.

TC

edit to add: Welcome to THR, MrX!
 
Thanks guys. It doesn't sound as bad as I thought, even from a shop/dealer. I guess it's the paranoia in me that doesn't like the idea of my government keeping track of what I own or fingerprinting me to make a rightful purchase. I thought that was just how it was these days, but it looks like some states (like mine) aren't as bad as others.
 
Lesson learned. Knowledge will either confirm or dispel paranoia. Both are positive results.

I realize every time I purchase a firearm I am providing sensitive personal information to the government. They also know where I live and what kind of car I drive. So what? My privacy concerns are not outweighed by my desire to have firearms enough for me to break the law in procuring them. Knowing I have them and knowing where they are and taking them are two different things.

Enjoy your new gun.
 
Just a clarification on the following exchange:

"Yes, I see on packing.org that fingerprinting is up to the local jurisdiction that grants the permit."

"As of last July, there are no more local gun laws."

True, but it doesn't apply to fingerprinting for carry permits because it's not a local law.

The application for a carry permit says that a complete fingerprint card may be required. It is up to the local Circuit Court that issues the permit whether or not they want to do fingerprints. This is item 21 IIRC on the application. It's a state law, not a local law.

I wish I didn't have to take the time to drive downtown and pay for parking to pick up my renewed permit, but they won't mail them. OTOH, I received the notification to come get it over 2 weeks earlier than expected.

John
 
Well then, do you know a site that has the details on these local rules for permits...what specific requirements local jurisdictions enforce? For that matter, is there a site better (more up to date) than packing.org that answers all of the questions that I originally asked in this thread? I'm sure this is a common question for (potential) new gun owners from different states.

Thanks again, guys...and yes I *will* stick around and learn. :)
 
The only fingerprint requirement is for a concealed weapon permit. Each county or city is allowed to decide if they want prints. The print cards must be returned to the applicant or destroyed after the permit is granted. The jurisdiction may not charge you for running the prints through the FBI, the state authorized fees are all they can collect. They must accept a single payment for the permit (no separate charges for items allowed), and they must accept whatever method of payment is normally accepted by the court (personal checks are OK).
Can you tell a lot of jurisdictions tried playing games after the law was passed?
 
I don't know of a site that covers each city and county in Virginia. The State Police site only lists the general rules. Just call the Clerk of the local Circuit Court. I called the one in the City of Richmond before I sent my renewal in and asked if I needed to attach my proof of training. The answer was no, even though the same form is used for the renewal as for the original application and it says to send proof of training. I figured there was no sense risking a delay when a phone call would clear it up.

When I originally applied I called the Clerk and asked which training programs were adequate/approved/whatever and if they had a list. The answer was "Just take one." :)
_________________________
Here's an example of a local practice prohibited by state law:

From the latest VCDL e-mail:

13. Buchanan Court still requiring that a person has to talk to the
judge before getting a CHP!
****************************************************
I talked to the Judge Williams' secretary and explained that he has
no authority to require a permit holder meet with him personally. On
top of that, the judge is also asking why the person wants a permit.
Those of you in Buchanan county, let me know if this abuse is
continuing. Hopefully the judge will cease and desist.

www.vcdl.org
__________________________

John
 
Virginia eh? join this group!

VCDL
http://www.vcdl.org/
The Virginia Citizen's Defense League (VCDL) was founded in October 1994 as the Northern Virginia Citizens Defense League (NVCDL). The group experienced enormous growth in membership statewide and was incorporated as VCDL in May of 1998. VCDL is a non-partisan, grassroots organization dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians and, most importantly, the proposition that the Right to Keep and Bear Arms is a fundamental Human Right.

If I lived in Virginia I would join-these guys rock!
 
True, but it doesn't apply to fingerprinting for carry permits because it's not a local law.

The application for a carry permit says that a complete fingerprint card may be required. It is up to the local Circuit Court that issues the permit whether or not they want to do fingerprints. This is item 21 IIRC on the application. It's a state law, not a local law.

I wish I didn't have to take the time to drive downtown and pay for parking to pick up my renewed permit, but they won't mail them. OTOH, I received the notification to come get it over 2 weeks earlier than expected.
Click to expand...
I was reffering to purchases, not CCW permits. Thank you for clearing that up though.
 
I'm in my mid-30's and haven't purchased or owned a firearm for about 15 years. At that time, I lived in Indiana and I could just walk into my local gun store and buy a shotgun and walk out without doing any paperwork at all.
Click to expand...
What gun store was that? 15 years ago would put you in 1990 - if you went to a gun store then, you would've had to fill out a Form 4473, required by Federal law since the Gun Control Act of 1968. If you're in your "mid-30's" this would've been the case since about the time you were born. :confused:
 
Was that always the law for shotguns and rifles? I bought my first shotgun in 1988 (at "Fetlas" in Valparaiso, IN to be specific), and I don't remember filling out anything. I suppose I could be mistaken, but I don't think the purchase took more than 5 minutes.
 
There is only two things that has not been mentioned about purchasing in VA. First, you will need two forms of ID if you buy at a gun store. Driver's license and voter reg, hunting license, CCW, car registration of something like that.

Next is that this "gunshow loophole" is a crock of do-do. Most sales at gunshows are done by vendors. The vendors have licenses and must follow all the same laws they normally do. There are always a few folks wandering around with guns slung over thier shoulders who are selling as private citizens. Those transactions require no paperwork as long as you're both residents of the same sate.
 
Not required that you live in the Old Dominion to join VCDL, Gunsmith
Click to expand...

Amen brother. VCDL members have been VERY supportive of us Marylanders. I've met several who have come to the MD legislative sessions to testify in favor of gun rights.

Good people.
 
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