OK. Some of you followed me on making my own BP via considerable unconventional methods. Well now I'm retired and want to try it again. I still like getting the sulfur from pyrite and charcoal from the poor sacrificial willow in my yard. [I still don't know the differences between the 50+ different species much less even know Black Willow - The King! - even looks like!] The nitrate you might recall came from a few BBQ's where stuff like pork and stout beer were served with a 5gl collection bottle. [Yeah, we all pee'd in it. None of the galls though.... Huh, wonder why?] YUCK! This time I'll shoot pics and give progress reports. BUT! I just gotta figure nitrates out some other way. I don't want to "grow" them. Or please nothing that takes months to get. Fertilizer and preexisting stuff don't count. Ideas? Someone wake up Officers' Wife and tell her I'm ready to bother her some more. Ya gotta know she's got an idea. Winner of the idea gets two, no, make it three "AttaBoy's" from CANNONMAN. Last, my latest cannon recoils to two 1,000# shocks. It's on a "cart". You're all welcome to come fire it with me when it;s done.
How to make your own BP... again
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Officers'Wife
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And all of them bad, chlorates are not suitable for and are dangerous to use as propellant powders and equally dangerous to manipulate!!!
OK Cannonman, since our last discussion kicked my curiosity in gear (something neither myself, my husband and the peace of Jasper County will ever forgive you for) I managed to find my uncle's lab notebook on the subject. While he had three methods he considered "reasonable" one involved manufacture of a chemical called cyanamide that I wouldn't suggest without at least three semesters of chemical engineering to prevent becoming an insult to the peace and dignity of your county.
The second involved a "tesla coil" that is essentially an air chamber with an electrically heated bar and induced "lightning" that caused the molecules of nitrogen and oxygen in the air to ionize then reconfigure into NOx molecules that then react with water to form nitric acid that when reacts with lye to potassium nitrate. Unfortunately this requires a relatively large amount of electricity per unit acquired.
The third involved a 2 cylinder and later a 4 cylinder diesel engine that he shaved the heads to further increase the compression then attached to a vertical water wheel. Feeding what was now essentially a very high compression air compressor heated air (his standard was 125C although there are figures for as high as 210) plus a catalyst of porous iron oxides again the heat and pressure of compression creates NOx to create the nitric acid and from there the nitrate salts. He was working on the most efficient catalyst when the great white father in Rensselaer took exception to the water wheel, claiming the device had a negative effect on drainage.
He was considering modifying a diesel engine to maximize nitrogen/oxygen pollutants then running the exhaust through a water/sulfuric acid bath but the brain aneurysm closed down his shop and lab forever.
Officers'Wife
Member
You do that, since you seem to be the expert let me ask you a few questions. How much compression can you use with chlorate oxidizer based mixtures? What is their safety factor to static discharge compared to nitrate based powders? What is the shelf life of the powder packed in copper or zinc containing alloy cartridges?
Now for using the stuff as a propellant... what is the solubility of the by products of reduction and how corrosive are such compounds to steel or in Cannonmans' case brass or bronze?
You remind me too much a friend of my uncle's that had a dream of making an 8 inch (pyrotechnic) mortar shell with either 200 or 500 hammerheads. (the exact number escapes me atm) I have personally seen two of the craters left when the shock from the lift charge detonated the chlorate based shell.
Everybody has their own level of risk tolerance. Mine is far below using chlorates as a prime mover, an attitude shared by both Weingard and Tenney both of had not only tried it but were experts in the field.
Chlorates and the relatively safer perchlorates are capable of producing some wonderful pyrotechnic effects. If this were a thread and board that included pyrotechnics you and I could probably share more than a few useful techniques on a variety of subsets on the subject. But, the thread is black powder that has a specific use and risk factor. If you have knowledge of chlorates ever being used as a prime mover feel free to share it with me. The only use for firearms I'm aware of was for percussion caps and even then the powers that were felt that mercury fulminate and lead azide were more suited to the task.
ofitg
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Thanks again, OW! I'm not the "expert" who doesn't try things, I'm the guy who tries things. Don't worry, I'll let you know if I blow up a gun.
Since you seem hungry for examples, I might mention that (for whatever reason) people have used match-heads for propellant over the years. I'm not talking about the igniter tips from "strike anywhere" matches, I'm talking about the powder from common safety matches. My own experiments confirmed that it works, but the stuff is much more energetic than BP. NOT SUITABLE for muzzle-loaders!!!
Weren't you the one who told me it's unsafe to dissolve smokeless powder in acetone? I'll have to go check in my "warnings" file again.... in any event, I'm still here, with both eyes, and all 10 fingers.
Since you seem hungry for examples, I might mention that (for whatever reason) people have used match-heads for propellant over the years. I'm not talking about the igniter tips from "strike anywhere" matches, I'm talking about the powder from common safety matches. My own experiments confirmed that it works, but the stuff is much more energetic than BP. NOT SUITABLE for muzzle-loaders!!!
Weren't you the one who told me it's unsafe to dissolve smokeless powder in acetone? I'll have to go check in my "warnings" file again.... in any event, I'm still here, with both eyes, and all 10 fingers.
Officers'Wife
Member
I remember reading a guy's diary of how on safari one of the guides used ground up dynamite for powder in a double rifle as well. As I said before, it's a matter of risk tolerance. And usually for NG based binary powder I use alcohol as the example, the point is that the different solubility of NG and NC is going to change the characteristics of the performance.
You have an experimental nature, I get that and I respect you for it. My uncle was the same way, although he would never advise someone without fully mentioning the risks of his experimental successes. My concern is the unknowing might read a post advising the use of chlorates instead of niter and since there was no other mention might decide it a good idea and ball mill themselves up a batch. This board and thread has a specific theme, black powder and the manufacture of such. In this particular thread alternate methods of producing a specific product- niter or potassium nitrate. Chlorates, while an interesting subject that gets discussed on a certain pyrotechnic board I haunt is a bit off-topic here and quite frankly I feel to be more than a little irresponsible to mention on a thread based on manufacture.
I will ask the mod to consider my posts on the subject and request if I am out of line to modify them or remove them altogether.
Ummmm.... stop it. Or no CANNONMAN attaboys. For some reason this reminds me of a college girl friend who wanted me to spank her. I do not believe in corporal punishment so I put her in time out. 
I wanna make some nitrate. What about a pee spot from farmer Brown's soiled hay. [BTW, what did the lion say to the scare crow? "Hay man!"]
I wanna make some nitrate. What about a pee spot from farmer Brown's soiled hay. [BTW, what did the lion say to the scare crow? "Hay man!"]
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