Cons about making homemade blackpowder

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wittzo

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First off, I know it can be done, but I don't think it should be done without a good solid reason.
Second, Triple Seven is $21 a pound at Walmart right now (hoped it would be down to $15 or less by now... oh well). Goex is $20.

My friend is coming home from Iraq soon and a couple of the guys in his unit want to get together and make blackpowder and get some Civil War reproduction guns so they can be as self-reliant as they can. (I don't know of any one that makes a Tap-O-Cap device for Musket caps, he'll have to drive 40 minutes one way to avoid the Hazmat fee like I do. He might as well pick up some FFg while he's there. Or drive 5 miles down a curvy road to get Goex.)

They're convinced they can do it, they claimed to have learned some things about demolitions while they were over there. He's normally a reasonable, cautious guy. He warned me to not blow myself up with my Howdah. He was even wary when I cast my own balls.

I'm going to show him how to cast balls and bullets for sure, I can show him the Tap-O-Cap device and how reliable/unreliable it can be. I'll show him how to recycle a spent primer with strike anywhere matches(if I can find any around here.) We'll reload some cartridges with Triple 7 so he knows what it's like to clean a modern firearm after shooting BP.

I'll show him how I make my own wads, lube, and patches.

The powder and caps are the only things I need an outside source for (well, besides the wool for the wads, the cloth for the patches, the groceries for the lube, and the shipping industry to bring it to me..:) )

Tell me honest horror stories on how bad dangerous it can be to make your own, how perfectly safe it can be, how practical/impractical it is and so forth. He'll see through hearsay in a heartbeat, only good solid anecdotes can be used but he's relatively logical.

Are there any legal ramifications and so forth? (other than the 50 lb limit, the BATFE will try to get anyone for bombmaking if you store it improperly.)

I know you can't use Kingsford from the grill, you have to use pure charcoal, like they filter Jack Daniels or fish aquariums through.

The flour of sulphur you find at pharmacies aren't good enough.

13-13-13 is probably not good enough for salt petre either.
None of this has even reached the milling stage.

I'll let him make his case to me, but I'll need a good rebuttal, I tried to make it as a teen, but it was a halfway attempt.

Gotta go to bed and get over my pneumonia..I guess I won't cast bullets tomorrow. :)
 
Anyone who makes black powder is a fool. A big fool.
Consider this: even the finest, most scientific, modern, technologically advanced black powder manufacturing plants blow up on occasion.
They often don't know why, despite the latest forensic explosives investigations by people who have years of experience in determining the cause of fires and explosions.
Read, "Gunpowder: Alchemy, Bombards & Pyrotechnics -- The History of the Explosive that Changed the World," by Jack Kelly. Published in 2004, it is an amazing book on the history of black powder.
Kelly also notes, repeatedly, that scientists well-versed in chemistry, physics and other scientific disciplines are still mystified by black powder, and cannot explain why it does some of the things it does.
Clearly, it is not just three relatively inert ingredients that get mixed together. Apparently, malicious or prank-loving demons dwell in the old, black explosive.
Are your eyes or fingers so cheap as to not be worth $20 it costs for Goex? Would you sell your life so cheaply?
I've been using black powder since about 1970, when I first began shooting cap and ball sixguns. I've been approached a number of times about getting together with others to make black powder.
I have always refused. Even at $100 a pound, it's far cheaper than my eyes, fingers and life.
Besides, what the average person can make is markedly inferior to what you can buy. The manufacturers have centuries of experience from which to draw, and guard their trade secrets tightly.
Sure, the stuff you make may go bang, and it may propel a bullet down a bore, but judging from what others have told me, it will foul terribly and be difficult to ignite.
The old timers had the same problem until manufacturing methods were refined in the 19th century, according to Kelly's book.
Buy it. As you go through it, mark every reason why you shouldn't make your own black powder with a high-liter. By the time you finish it, your book's pages will resemble a psychedelic zebra.
 
Ditto - on Gatofeo. If you have a bunch of guys, who want to use pure BP, get together, send for 25 lbs. from someone like Track of the Wolf, or Powder Inc., and divide the cost amongst all. MUCH safer.
 
i got an excellant tutorial for making blackpowder from this BB. had link in one of the discussions. should be easy to find with search link. must be a lot of fools on here.

i don't believe making Black Powder is dangerous, when mixing wet. the reason the factories are blowing up is due to the quanities being dealt with and blending dry powder. also i would bet safety procedures are being bypassed in most of the explosions.

also the point of making it yourself is not to reduce cost but to learn a skill that could come in handy in the future. during the civil war, in the south at least, the waste, politely referred to as night soils, was a strategic material.
 
Amateur bombmaking is a lost art; it's practitioners have slowly faded away.

Yeah, your buddies have been trained by the finest schools the government can afford in dealing with modern explosive devices. Semtex with an electronic detonator is NOT non-graphite coated black powder in the presence of undetected static electricity.

Having said that, however, I find myself dismayed by Gatofeo's comments. I've come to respect and admire his feet-on-the-ground advice and comment on many things, but on this topic I'm disappointed.

Yes, even the professionals have had tragic results, but explosions from the manufacture of black powder, even the amateur stuff, are nowhere near as common as he would imply. Many people are successfully making and using their own black powder, and have been for literally hundreds of years.

As for the quality of the amateur efforts, they're understandably pretty spotty. I expect there are many more amateurs who simply give up rather than who succeed and continue making their own because they find it's beyond their means to even come close to the commercial stuff. Finding truly high quality base ingredients is very difficult, and the quality of the finished product is very highly dependent on the quality and purity of the components; that's a basic tenant of chemistry.

I think the biggest argument against making your own is that it's just very difficult and frankly not worth the time and effort required given all but the most fanatical of survivalist mentalities. If your buddies are willing to surrender to that extreme philosophy of life nothing's going to stop them. On the other hand, if they're willing to be more practical they'll soon find this grand experiment is perhaps not nearly as worthwile as the romantic ideal would seem, and they'll soon move on to something else.
 
I have been making bp for over 50 years and am also retired army EOD with a lot of combat time so I have a great deal of respect for anything that goes boom. There are no living stupid EOD men.
First thing I would suggest is that you get your hands on everything you can and study every step in the process so that there is no doubt ever what you are doing and why.
Then work only in small batches. That's small batches. I work only in final batches of 1/4--1/2 lb at a time.
You are probably going to have to make your own charcoal because the charcoal you can buy is usually questionable as to type and source. I use only alder or willow and grind it in large batches for a looooonnnng time. You want the coal to be superfine. I use a homemade tumbler with heavy lead balls to grind with. Do the same with the sulfur.
Nitrate you can buy from several sources and it will be pure so you don't have to worry.
You will have to decide on how you are going to do the final mixing of all three ingredients, again I suggest SMALL batches and be consistent.
The powder I make is as good as Swiss, burns clean and is powerful.
I would recommend that everyone who shoots it should know how to make it SAFELY.
I think that anyone who screams against making your own doesn't know what they are talking about from first hand knowledge.
Jim
 
jimrbto..Amen and the people said Amen..I shoot Triple Seven but I made a little black powder just here while back and buddy let me tell you, IT SHOT GOOD..I'vd got a good ball mill and screens and my other supplies and some good recipes to pick and choose from and plenty of good tips to help me along. Not a damn thing wrong with making your own powder. There's NOTHING dangerous about making black powder so long as you follow a few common sense rules. Black Powder is NOT dangerous. That black powder can set right there on the shelf or where ever for the next 20 years and it won't hurt a damn thing 'less somebody goes to messing around with it. You want something dangerous? Let me give you something dangerous. That damn can of gasoline you keep in your garage or in the back of your pickup that you smoke around and whatnot all the time. A gallon of gasoline in a confined area has more explosive power than a pound of 60 shock weight dynamite....PS.. I know willow is good but right now I have a good supply of red cedar. That's what I used here while back and it worked real good. I make the charcoal in a 2 gallon bucket and just put it away and keep it. Hey, I think that one reason willow has been handed down through the generations and the years is because when the 'mountain men' made their clothes they would dry and smoke the leather over a willow fire. After the leather was dried and smoked thoroughly over a willow fire, it would not stretch out of shape when it got wet. I tried it in Alaska with a shirt I was making and it seemed to work pretty good....
 
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Agreed i made some as well. It can be done and it can be done safely. Only a fool with ignorance can say your a fool. When making Holly Black its best to make small batches at a time. When doing this its just as safe to make as it is to load a revolver. The technique is rather simple. Just remember making small batches not gallon sized batches. When you start making gallon sized black you get into trouble expecially with the size of equipment needed. So thats why you keep it to making small batches.
 
Yeah, the most I have made and probably ever will make is just a little under 1/2 of a pound..Hell, that's enough. There's a lot of shooting in half a pound of powder especially if you're just using it to do a little hunting or keep a loaded piece for home protection....
 
I submit that as long as one is using common sense (you know, the sense that everyone is supposed to be borned with) that fooling around with a pot of molten lead and attempting to pour his own bullets is far more dangerous than making a little powder and that's not dangerous either as long as he dosen't spill his cup of coffee or iced tea into the pot or drop the pot or knock the pot over, etc etc....
 
if you keep it wet while milling it you will be safe its the pressing and screening that are the hard part just because its a pain to do not because its unsafe
 
Well sir, if you're talking to me I also hope you don't see me on the news. However, if you do I'm pretty sure it will be because I shot and killed some people breaking in on me or because I shot a raghead terrorist through the head or something along those lines so to speak. You have a good day now you hear?....
 
shoot making it is so easy. if done especially wet no big deal at all. You guys sound as bad as when people find out you reload. Then they think your crazy or just looking for trouble when ((((( THEY ARE IGNORANT OF THE PROCESS))))). Same about people who do not know about shooting black powder guns and they think they are too dangerous to shoot. or you cant hit anything with a black powder gun.

Making black powder is easy and safe as long as you practice safe procedures.

Being ignorant of not knowing about black powder is not an excuse to say one is foolish for making it. CASE CLOSED
 
You know I would agree with Gatofeo if I was making several hundred pound batches at a time. I make 2000 grain batches, about 4 ounces. I don't think my 4 ounces of BP will level the neighborhood.

As far as quality, my BP is definitely dirtier to shoot. But I can still get through a SASS match with no problems. Mine is also more powerful than Goex. Back before I killed my chronograph I actually got just over 1000fps through my Navy Knock-off. (brass framed, .44 caliber version of the '51 Colt). I was totally surprised at that velocity.

My powder is lighter than commercial BP, and it doesn't flow good through a measure since it doesn't have the graphite coating. But it works.

If a person can follow the safety rules of reloading, then they can safely make blackpowder.

Here's the link to the big thread that was here last year:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=347898
 
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My brother and I made a small batch for our 3/4" cannon, back in the 60's. It worked we're both still alive, but it was a pain and b/p could be bought at the local hardware store for $2.00 per Lb. back then.
 
My brother and I made a small batch for our 3/4" cannon, back in the 60's. It worked we're both still alive, but it was a pain and b/p could be bought at the local hardware store for $2.00 per Lb. back then.
Click to expand...

BTDT. We even used to get a 50-cent discount on the powder if we brought our empty DuPont can in for refilling at the local gun shop. The owner would dispense the powder from a 25-pound keg and fill the can with a funnel. Did it right atop the sales counter, too! Boy them were the good ol' days, and we didn't even know it!:)
 
I'm about to fall over the fence to my buddy's side after all of that..I read a few web sites and found a good one written by a Swiss engineer and a few good articles on instructables.com about making it for fireworks. They all suggested small batches, using non static, no smoking. I'm not sure if the Swiss guy made as much as a half pound at a time.

When the guys come home and I talk to them, I can gauge if they're trustworthy or not..I don't want someone who juggles hand grenades near me or my lead pot. I've seen guys wash car parts in gasoline with a cigarette in their mouth, they didn't blow up, but I stayed at a safe distance, and left as soon as I could.

A lot of times, I would be nearly spooked from shooting my AR-15 because someone got a hold of a bad batch of bulk Federal that blew his rifle to pieces. I almost feared every trigger pull, because anyone can be the next statistic. A lot of things are perfectly safe to do as long as everyone follows the rules. I would hope the guy in Lake City paid attention when he pushed the button so my rifle wouldn't explode. My rifle was clean and ready, but the ammo was out of my control, as long as it looked good on the outside, I hoped it was okay on the inside.

That's one thing I like about reloading and shooting blackpowder, it's all on you.
If these guys see how the process is done, they'll realize they could have built a bow and some arrows faster than making gunpowder. I made flour out of acorns once. It was literally a pain, because it's hard to crack long oak acorns. I had piles of them gathered up and happened to see an article about acorn flour. It took days to make a small pan of muffins, but I still had to use flour and other regular ingredients. I guess it will be neat to know you can do it, but I'll still buy powder from Walmart when the homemade stuff gets used up, if we get around to doing it..

These kids have been doing convoy escorts every day since the early summer, so they get bored and talk about stuff. They might change their mind when they get home next month. I couldn't even talk my buddy into showing him how I load my cap and ball revolver before he left and now he wants to make his own blackpowder..imagine that.
 
i am curious if anyone is mining their own potasium nitrate. i was trying before winter came but had not been able to get enough to make a batch. also if you are producing your own Potasium Nitrate are you refining it further. in water on copper pipes?
 
Birdshot 8s, Go to a garden center and buy a box of STUMP REMOVER. It is usually pure KNO3 and cheap.

Having read all these posts it looks to me that making your own BP in small batches is probably not all that difficult or dangerous. However it sounds very time consuming. My suspicion is there must be a lot of spare time for people to waste their time making something to save them $10-15 a pound that takes hours and hours to cook the charcoal, go locate & buy the ingredients, tumblers, milling, screening, drying, etc. I enjoy making stuff myself and saving money but it looks like the hassle for getting everything together to scrape out an occasional 4-8 ounces of powder isn't worth it unless you just plain have a lot of time to kill. Those guys really ought to just order it in bulk 25 pound sacks and enjoy pouring it into your empty powder cans.

I don't know. Maybe it has a lure like moonshining. You can make your own booze but unless you are going to drink a lot of it it's just simpler to go to the liquor store and get it over with.
 
Hellgate, it's really not that time consuming. When I have a hot dog fire, I put a can of willow sticks in after eating. A little while later I've got charcoal. It takes less than 5 minutes to measure ingredients, and maybe 10 minutes to wet and seive the BP. I do not sit around the yard watching the tumbler do it's work for 8 hours.
If you add all the total time, yes a batch of BP takes 10 or more hours. If you only count the time of actual working at it, less than 30 minutes.
 
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