how to shoot skeet successfully with a .410?

[92GreenYJ]

Hi all, just stumbled across this forum and decided to join as it seems to be the best gun forum on the net I have found.
For some back story, my family has recently ecided to get back into shooting. none of us have shot in several years. My Mom had a Mossberg model 500 .410 shotgun sitting in her closet, it is stock, never been fired, etc. I took it out and cleaned and oiled it, then tok it on down to our local range a few days ago. When we pulled in I saw the guys shooting trap and it looked like fun, so I decided to try it out. (not sure i am naming the right game. clay house in the middle. 5 shooting stations that you rotate after taking 5 shots, birds fly from the house in the center to the left, right, and center at random)

Now, I have never shot skeet, trap, etc before and hadn't even fired a rifle let alone a shot gun in well over 7 years. So I pulled out the .410 and got in the line. my first round of 25 I managed to hit 3 birds out of the sky. My next round of 25 I managed to hit 2 birds. I was told by a few of the guys on the range that I was a brave man for even trying to shoot these things with a .410. One guy even told me he was lucky to hit 10 out of 25 with a 410 and i know he is good as i watched him hit 24 out of 25 the round before with his 12 gauge. Then my roomate tells me he used to shoot skeet with a 410 all the time and did quite well with it.

So whats your guys take? any tips or pointers for being more successfull with the 410? or is it me that needs the work and not the gun? I am planning to get a 12 gauge soon as well, but i like the idea of showing these guys at the range up with a little 410 when they are using all these high dollar custom 12 gauges

 

[sm]

Welcome to THR.

Learn correct basics of fundamentals with a shotgun that fits you, in any gauge, other than .410.

I prefer to start new folks out with a 28 ga.

.410 is only 1/2 oz of pellets, the payload to bore is such the pellets are a "long shot string" meaning not all the pellets arrive at the same time and therefore the least effective shotgun to shoot.

Highest scores will often be with a 28 ga, as the shot string is short, meaning more pellets arrive at the same time.

This is real important on moving targets. Think of using a garden hose and the spray of water hitting a moving object, not all the water arrives at the same time, same thing happens with pellets.

Get a seasoned shooter that knows gun fit, and can "read" a student as they instruct.
A variety of guns to actually shoot, assists in gun fit to YOU.

.410 is fun, just not the gun to learn on, especially skeet.
One needs to get correct basics down, have fun, and boost self esteem along the learning process.

Some great reading is also suggested:
Brister's Book, Misseldine and others...

There is a lot to shotguns and how all they do what they do.

 

[Bud Tugly]

Imagine you're trying to learn to drive nails with a hammer. You have a choice of two hammers to use - one with a 2" head and one with a 1" head. It's going to lots harder to learn with the small one, but if you can master it you will be a true expert. The big hammer will have a much shorter learning curve but you may never deveop quite as much precision using it.

How much patience do you have with developing your skills?

 

[ArmedBear]

Sounds to me like you're shooting trap, not skeet.

Skeet is doable with a .410, though a challenge. Trap is nearly impossible. You're shooting at more distant targets with trap. I mean, it CAN be done, but people only do it on a bet or if they've been shooting so well for so many decades that they need a new challenge. I know a couple of guys like that. It took them a LONG time to be able to do it well, and once they proved it, they quit.

Don't get frustrated! 3 with a .410 isn't half bad.

Where'd you shoot?

(BTW I'm also in the infamous '107, with a '99 Red TJ)

 

[92GreenYJ]

ArmedBear, I was shooting down at Century 2000. We are looking for a good range to join and from their website it looked good. we were somewhat dissapointed to discover they did not have an outdoor rifle range however. Other than that the place does look pretty good (except for having to drive thru a damn quarry to get to it) (OT, but you on any of the local Jeep boards? like Jeepaholics?)

I'm not frustrated at all. It made me feel pretty good when the guys at the range told me that hitting the ones I did was pretty dang impressive for being my first time and using the gun I was using.

Bud, I'm pretty darn patient and I do listen to others advice and seek it as often as I can. hence why I joined and posted. the .410 is just the gun we happened to have, as i said it has never been shot prior to this and sat in its original box in my Moms closet for the past several years (basically since she bought it. hell i had to cut the chamber lock off since she apparently lost the key) my Roomate did purchase a Mossberg PA 12 gauge and we will be able to get it on the 17th. I figured i'd try a round or two on his gun and see if I do better with the 12 gauge before deciding what shotgun I want to buy.

 

[Derek Zeanah]

Best skeet shooter I ever saw owned the place where we used to shoot in Southern California. Never missed with his .410, so if you want to shoot well, I'd say use his technique: from the hip.

Of course, he might have been willing to spend more time and ammunition on his technique than you will.

 

[RNB65]

He ain't talking skeet!

The game you described is trap, not skeet. Skeet is a short range game with the clays crossing in front of you and always following a known/predictable flight path. Not terribly difficult with a .410. But trap is a long range game with the clays always going away from you at random angles. Shooting trap with a .410 is asking a lot.

I'm afraid you're going to get frustrated pretty quickly shooting trap with a .410 and quit. My suggestion is to either find a skeet field to shoot with the .410 or look to trade for a larger bore gun for trap shooting. I love shotgunning, but I wouldn't last longer than one box of shells on a trap field with a .410.

 

[sm]

Trap not skeet ?

Well right there I see a problem....

I'm kidding. It is all good.
Understand I was raised and still have those folks we rib and tease and all in good fun about shooting different things.

We even have kids, that are just big enough to shoot .22 single shot rifles ribbing and teasing.

"Yeah. When you finally want to learn to hit something with one bullet let us know. Until then go ahead and cheat and use all them shotgun shell pellets..."

 

[obxned]

Get a 20. Ammo is so much cheaper that the gun will quickly pay for itself in ammo savings. It will also be much easier to learn with. The .410 is fine if you are an expert, but is a handicap for everyone else.

 

[92GreenYJ]

So whats everyones recomendations on a good 20 gauge shotty for doing trap and skeet n such? As I said my roomate is waiting his ten days to pick up a Mossberg 12 gauge so I'm thinking I will go with a 20 gauge since i dont see the point of having two of the same gun in the house. obviously by my arsenal I do like Mossys especially the prices. I know I can get the same gun my roomate got in a 20 gauge flavor for 250 bucks. What else should i be looking at? what else is out there in that price range?

 

[sm]

12 gauge for Trap.
20 gauge for Skeet.

Shotgunning : The Art & Science by Bob Brister is strongly suggested as reading around here.

Art & Science is indeed what Shotgunning is. There are a lot of things at work, in getting a shotgun to hit what pointed at.

Pointed.
Right there is just one thing to point out. A shotgun is pointed, not aimed. So it is that critical a shotgun fit a shooter.
Top shooters with Custom fitted guns to them often do NOT have any beads on a shotgun.

I do not recommend a person buy a shotgun, until they have shot a variety of guns with a seasoned shooter to assess, assist and "read" them in gun fit and actually shooting a shotgun.

Trap, is best with a 12 bore due to the fact of the nature of the game. Closet distance is 16 yards, one cango back to the 27 yard line. This is where a "matter of bore not choke" really comes into play.

Skeet on the other hand was originally called Round the Clock to replicate field hunting presentations. The field was cut "in half" and now a semi circle.
Distance from any station to center stake is 21 yards.
Reg skeet targets are ~ 55 mph.

20 ga is great for this. In fact a lot of folks get a 20 and they can compete in both 12 and 20 gauge Skeet Tournaments. One is allowed to use a gauge smaller than Event.

I and others have used 28 gauge shot guns in 12, 20 and 28 gauge events, and then used the .410 for the .410 event only.

Special pump gun events , or Doubles events, I often used a 28 ga 870.

Please read Dave's 101 posts stickied at the top of this forum.
Get Brister's book.
Get some input from a seasoned shooter and lessons before you buy a shotgun.

Good Shooters are made - not born. - Fred Misseldine

 

[PJR]

12 gauge for Trap.
20 gauge for Skeet.

Heretic.

Steve, have you not forgotten that one of our missions in life is to get more people shooting the 28 gauge?

 

[RNB65]

As I said my roomate is waiting his ten days to pick up a Mossberg 12 gauge so I'm thinking I will go with a 20 gauge since i dont see the point of having two of the same gun in the house. obviously by my arsenal I do like Mossys especially the prices.

Just be real careful when you're out shooting together that you don't accidentally stick a 20ga shell into his 12ga shotgun. A 20ga shell may slide down the chamber far enough to allow a 12ga shell to be fully loaded behind it. If that happens, you've got big trouble in River City when someone pulls the trigger.

My brother has a friend who lost an eye a few months ago when a plugged barrel split while duck hunting. He wasn't wearing shooting glasses and a piece of metal when into his eye. Nasty... (Moral: Always wear eye protection when shooting.)

 

[ArmedBear]

RNB65:

That's why 20 Gauge shells are yellow!

Never stick a yellow shell in a 12 Gauge. And make sure to tell newbies about it too!

 

[toivo]

Since you already have the .410, why not use that for skeet and get a 12-gauge for trap? A 12-gauge semi-auto won't recoil all that much, and you'll hit a lot more clays than you were hitting with the .410.

 

[92GreenYJ]

well my thoughts at this point are to maybe turn the 410 into a home defense shotgun. gonna do some more research before i make a purchase and I will try a few rounds with my roomates 12 gauge when he gets it too and see if i like using his 12. I haven't shot a 12 gauge since i was 18 (8 years) and I was shooting high brass buck shot at the time, so as i recall it had a fair bit of kick to it.

 

[ArmedBear]

92: PM for ya.

Anyway, there are some decent HD rounds for the .410 now. They stack a few buckshot balls, I think. Probably as a good choice as any in our tight little neighborhoods, as long as you can keep the thing out of the hands of the stupid.

Not everyone around OB should be trusted with a pencil, to say nothing of a loaded shotgun.

 

[92GreenYJ]

Armed, LOL, thats very true indeed. We do live in the better section of town, a few blocks past newport ave and on the Point Loma side of Sunset Cliffs up on the hill a little. Got bored the other day and put together a gun rack to display our weapons and keep em up out of easy reach. the rack holds ten rifles. at the moment theres only the 410, Armalite .22 and a BB gun on it since we are still counting down our ten day wait to get the three new guns

 

[sm]

PJR wrote:

Steve, have you not forgotten that one of our missions in life is to get more people shooting the 28 gauge?

I have not forgotten, I just sometimes like to reel in a bit, and then yank real hard to set the hook.

 

[bratch]

yank real hard to set the hook

Don't yank too hard or you'll pull it through their lip.

I've had alot of fun with a NEF .410.

 

[Green Lantern]

I just got some 2 1/2" 00 Buck, 3 pellets, to try in my .410 last night, and I remembered browsing this thread a while back...

Best skeet shooter I ever saw owned the place where we used to shoot in Southern California. Never missed with his .410, so if you want to shoot well, I'd say use his technique: from the hip.

Of course, he might have been willing to spend more time and ammunition on his technique than you will.

I too have a Mossy .410 pump (and so does my nephew, come to think of it). And a cousin with a clay thrower!

So - What would be a good type of shell to use for skeet in the .410?

 

[sm]

So - What would be a good type of shell to use for skeet in the .410?

Better sit down and set your coffee aside, you ain't gonna believe this ...

2 1/2" 1/2 oz ounce , Skeet Target loadings

I know, don't you hate it when it when there is Target Loading for the dad-burned target you want to shoot!!

Target load, of hard #9 shot is what these are.

If you reload, one can also use hard # 8.5 shot, or #8 shot.
Some factory target loads have these shot sizes as well.

Remember, this is not a huge payload to start out with. .410 is the most difficult to learn to shoot well with, due to long shot strings. So the more pellets staying with #9, 8.5, or 8 shot affords one pellets/pellet density.

Stick with the 2 1/2" shells
In regulation one has to anyway.

I know all about the .410, still grown folks should not be allowed to have this much fun with this "littlest critter" as we call it.

Heck, I still get a big kick out shooting .410 single shot shotguns at clays tossed in Skeet (fast reload required for doubles) , portable throwers...and lobbing slugs at a coffee can way down yonder.

Steve

 

[Green Lantern]

^ D'OH!

As one might guess, I don't "mess" with the .410 much - or I probably would have seen such shells in a store before!

 

[gp911]

Being one of those people "mistakenly" taught with the .410 I love the little bastards... Apparently I was not easily frustrated.

If the .410 will be for home defense the 3" 000 Buck is pretty nasty. It penetrated the door of my old dishwasher when we shot it yesterday (I have a friend that knows a guy with some land, see..) I wouldn't want to shoot a long distance target or heavily fortified target at an extreme angle with it, but for home defense I have reached the conclusion from all the weird things I have shot with that 5-ball buck that it is a good home defense load. You hit a guy center mass with that and you'll likely break his back if you hit mid-abdomen. You hit high and you'll crack his sternum or ribs and hit the heart/lungs. You hit low and you'll crack that pelvis. It's a good load for dumping all the energy into the target.

Get that trap gun the way you want it, you can always add a short cylinder bore barrel later for home defense in case a new breed of goblin invades your neighborhood...

gp911