'How to spot a concealed handgun' or 'How to not make it obvious that you CCW'

[Yosemite Sam]

I carry my EDC (Every Day Carry) in a fanny pack. The CCW is always IWB.

 

[Yosemite Sam]

Here's the image the OP is talkin about.

 

[Diggers]

Im sure I do a few of those things. I know for sure I tend to press my arm against my gun when I walk past people, a habit from on the job.

These are tells that someone has a gun but I think it takes a good eye to make it out and then you never really know for sure these days.

I think that chart was made pre-cell phone era. These days everyone has something in their pocket that has some weight to it that they touch a lot.

Anyhow, as far as the average person realizing you have a gun goes, I think its pretty slim. You would really have to be loving on the thing for someone to even notice you have something there much less realize its a gun.

I don't worry about it very much.

 

[mgregg85]

Thanks Yosemite Sam, I updated my original post.

 

[bltmonty]

Kind of a dumb question--but why do we care if we give signals that we are legally carrying? I think the odds are that giving signals will probably help not hurt. Just the odds, not every time.

 

[Yosemite Sam]

True, assuming we're law-abiding, we have not much to worry about. I guess the biggest danger is if criminals learn how to spot us, then they'll recognize that we're either armed police or armed citizens. So it gives away the "surprise" element of concealed carry. Maybe they could use that information to attack us with great numbers of bad guys in order to steal our gun.

 

[mcdonl]

True, assuming we're law-abiding, we have not much to worry about. I guess the biggest danger is if criminals learn how to spot us, then they'll recognize that we're either armed police or armed citizens. So it gives away the "surprise" element of concealed carry. Maybe they could use that information to attack us with great numbers of bad guys in order to steal our gun.

More then likley they will pass us by as criminals have a deep sense of self preservation. They make a mistake in thier line of work they a) die or b) go to prison.

 

[Diggers]

mcdonl, I agree. The odds of running across a gang of BGs who are able tell you have a gun AND are willing to try to take it from you are pretty much nill.

bltmonty's point is a good one also (not dumb at all! ) That Chart was created for Law Enforcement to recognize BG's with guns.

If you carry legally and a LEO realizes that you have a gun.....so what?

 

[Shadow 7D]

I think that just as pertinent to this discussion would be a chart or table on how to spot someone mexican carrying etc, which is what a we would run into and help in spotting if the BG has a gun, as stated before they usually don't use a holster.... and I don't think that we run up against the mob.

 

[tiders]

Create a diversion

Do something else with the other hand, like adjusting your collar / glasses, pat your cell phone or whatever. It’s the old magician’s technique. One hand catches the attention and the other hand performs the task. If you look at your diversion as well, you will draw the eyes of the observer along with yours.

It takes a bit of practise to get it natural and coordinated…

 

[chuckusaret]

I care less if the bad guys/gals or LEO's can tell I have CCW, the average person (good guy) would never even think that a person has a odd walk/body movement because of a CCW.

 

[Carl]

Yeah, considering the amount of people that are oblivious to OPEN carrying people, I doubt they'll notice.

If I see a guy walk funny, I just think maybe he has a hip problem. If a guy is holding on to the outside of a pocket while he runs across the street, I'll just assume his wallet or keys are in there and he doesn't want them to jump out.

 

[glassman]

I personally don't want to be identified as carrying for a couple of reasons.
a) It scares people. Most don't understand that it is a tool for self defense.
All they see is a gun and think the worst.
b) I live near Philadelphia and don't want the hassle of being stopped for a
permit check.
c) I don't want to be identified as the first target at the local stop and rob.
The element of suprise may be small but I'll take any edge I can get.
If I didn't care about it, I'd open carry and be done with it. To each his own.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Why don't they just incorporate holsters in other really obvious pieces of clothing or accessories, like a kilt, or a stovepipe hat?

They do. In fact the Filead Mor (the Great Kilt, the one you put on by lying down and rolling up in it) has natural "pockets" in the back. In the 1700s, Scots warriors would fire a musket, drop it, and charge the English with the Claid Beag (broad sword) in one hand and a pistol in the other.

In the days when top or bell-crown hats were popular, people often used a wire frame inside the hat to hold a small pistol -- one of the Mississippi River steam boats has one on display.

 

[luzyfuerza]

Actually "making" people who carry is kind of like doing the Christmas bird count for the Audubon society...it establishes a population number that can be indicative of changes in population from year to year.

I'm spotting more and more concealed firearms these days. Either I'm getting out more, or I pick up on tells more quickly than I used to, or there are more people actually carrying where I tend to hang out. I hope that the third answer is accurate. I like the effect that folks carrying has on the politeness of our society.

 

[R3dundantC]

I've been around guns my entire life, and there are only 2 times that I get nervous around them.

1) It's pointed at me
2) It's partially concealed

If the gun is worn in plain view, then I am aware that there is gun and that it is probably a law abiding citizen of plain clothes cop and don't give it a second thought. If its concealed then its out of sight and out of mind. However when I see the only muzzle of your chrome Beretta sticking out from under your Run DMC shirt in a convenient store at 0300, it makes me real nervous and keep my hand real close to my piece.

 

[REAPER4206969]

I. NEW FINDINGS FROM FBI ABOUT COP ATTACKERS & THEIR WEAPONS

New findings on how offenders train with, carry and deploy the weapons they use to attack police officers have emerged in a just-published, 5-year study by the FBI.

Among other things, the data reveal that most would-be cop killers:

––show signs of being armed that officers miss;

––have more experience using deadly force in "street combat" than their intended victims;

––practice with firearms more often and shoot more accurately;

––have no hesitation whatsoever about pulling the trigger. "If you hesitate," one told the study's researchers, "you're dead. You have the instinct or you don't. If you don't, you're in trouble on the street...."

These and other weapons-related findings comprise one chapter in a 180-page research summary called "Violent Encounters: A Study of Felonious Assaults on Our Nation's Law Enforcement Officers." The study is the third in a series of long investigations into fatal and nonfatal attacks on POs by the FBI team of Dr. Anthony Pinizzotto, clinical forensic psychologist, and Ed Davis, criminal investigative instructor, both with the Bureau's Behavioral Science Unit, and Charles Miller III, coordinator of the LEOs Killed and Assaulted program.

"Violent Encounters" also reports in detail on the personal characteristics of attacked officers and their assaulters, the role of perception in life-threatening confrontations, the myths of memory that can hamper OIS investigations, the suicide-by-cop phenomenon, current training issues, and other matters relevant to officer survival. (Force Science News and our strategic partner PoliceOne.com will be reporting on more findings from this landmark study in future transmissions.)

Commenting on the broad-based study, Dr. Bill Lewinski, executive director of the Force Science Research Center at Minnesota State University-Mankato, called it "very challenging and insightful––important work that only a handful of gifted and experienced researchers could accomplish."

From a pool of more than 800 incidents, the researchers selected 40, involving 43 offenders (13 of them admitted gangbangers-drug traffickers) and 50 officers, for in-depth exploration. They visited crime scenes and extensively interviewed surviving officers and attackers alike, most of the latter in prison.

Here are highlights of what they learned about weapon selection, familiarity, transport and use by criminals attempting to murder cops, a small portion of the overall research:

WEAPON CHOICE.

Predominately handguns were used in the assaults on officers and all but one were obtained illegally, usually in street transactions or in thefts. In contrast to media myth, none of the firearms in the study was obtained from gun shows. What was available "was the overriding factor in weapon choice," the report says. Only 1 offender hand-picked a particular gun "because he felt it would do the most damage to a human being."

Researcher Davis, in a presentation and discussion for the International Assn. of Chiefs of Police, noted that none of the attackers interviewed was "hindered by any law––federal, state or local––that has ever been established to prevent gun ownership. They just laughed at gun laws."

FAMILIARITY.

Several of the offenders began regularly to carry weapons when they were 9 to 12 years old, although the average age was 17 when they first started packing "most of the time." Gang members especially started young.

Nearly 40% of the offenders had some type of formal firearms training, primarily from the military. More than 80% "regularly practiced with handguns, averaging 23 practice sessions a year," the study reports, usually in informal settings like trash dumps, rural woods, back yards and "street corners in known drug-trafficking areas."

One spoke of being motivated to improve his gun skills by his belief that officers "go to the range two, three times a week [and] practice arms so they can hit anything."

In reality, victim officers in the study averaged just 14 hours of sidearm training and 2.5 qualifications per year. Only 6 of the 50 officers reported practicing regularly with handguns apart from what their department required, and that was mostly in competitive shooting. Overall, the offenders practiced more often than the officers they assaulted, and this "may have helped increase [their] marksmanship skills," the study says.

The offender quoted above about his practice motivation, for example, fired 12 rounds at an officer, striking him 3 times. The officer fired 7 rounds, all misses.

More than 40% of the offenders had been involved in actual shooting confrontations before they feloniously assaulted an officer. Ten of these "street combat veterans," all from "inner-city, drug-trafficking environments," had taken part in 5 or more "criminal firefight experiences" in their lifetime.

One reported that he was 14 when he was first shot on the street, "about 18 before a cop shot me." Another said getting shot was a pivotal experience "because I made up my mind no one was gonna shoot me again."

Again in contrast, only 8 of the 50 LEO victims had participated in a prior shooting; 1 had been involved in 2 previously, another in 3. Seven of the 8 had killed offenders.

CONCEALMENT.

The offenders said they most often hid guns on their person in the front waistband, with the groin area and the small of the back nearly tied for second place. Some occasionally gave their weapons to another person to carry, "most often a female companion." None regularly used a holster, and about 40% at least sometimes carried a backup weapon.

In motor vehicles, they most often kept their firearm readily available on their person, or, less often, under the seat. In residences, most stashed their weapon under a pillow, on a nightstand, under the mattress––somewhere within immediate reach while in bed.

Almost all carried when on the move and strong majorities did so when socializing, committing crimes or being at home. About one-third brought weapons with them to work. Interestingly, the offenders in this study more commonly admitted having guns under all these circumstances than did offenders interviewed in the researchers' earlier 2 surveys, conducted in the 1980s and '90s.

According to Davis, "Male offenders said time and time again that female officers tend to search them more thoroughly than male officers. In prison, most of the offenders were more afraid to carry contraband or weapons when a female CO was on duty."

On the street, however, both male and female officers too often regard female subjects "as less of a threat, assuming that they not going to have a gun," Davis said. In truth, the researchers concluded that more female offenders are armed today than 20 years ago––"not just female gang associates, but female offenders generally."

SHOOTING STYLE.

Twenty-six of the offenders [about 60%], including all of the street combat veterans, "claimed to be instinctive shooters, pointing and firing the weapon without consciously aligning the sights," the study says.

"They practice getting the gun out and using it," Davis explained. "They shoot for effect." Or as one of the offenders put it: "[W]e're not working with no marksmanship....We just putting it in your direction, you know....It don't matter...as long as it's gonna hit you...if it's up at your head or your chest, down at your legs, whatever....Once I squeeze and you fall, then...if I want to execute you, then I could go from there."

HIT RATE.

More often than the officers they attacked, offenders delivered at least some rounds on target in their encounters. Nearly 70% of assailants were successful in that regard with handguns, compared to about 40% of the victim officers, the study found. (Efforts of offenders and officers to get on target were considered successful if any rounds struck, regardless of the number fired.)

Davis speculated that the offenders might have had an advantage because in all but 3 cases they fired first, usually catching the officer by surprise. Indeed, the report points out, "10 of the total victim officers had been wounded [and thus impaired] before they returned gunfire at their attackers."

MISSED CUES.

Officers would less likely be caught off guard by attackers if they were more observant of indicators of concealed weapons, the study concludes. These particularly include manners of dress, ways of moving and unconscious gestures often related to carrying.

"Officers should look for unnatural protrusions or bulges in the waist, back and crotch areas," the study says, and watch for "shirts that appear rippled or wavy on one side of the body while the fabric on the other side appears smooth." In warm weather, multilayered clothing inappropriate to the temperature may be a giveaway. On cold or rainy days, a subject's jacket hood may not be covering his head because it is being used to conceal a handgun.

Because they eschew holsters, offenders reported frequently touching a concealed gun with hands or arms "to assure themselves that it is still hidden, secure and accessible" and hasn't shifted. Such gestures are especially noticeable "whenever individuals change body positions, such as standing, sitting or exiting a vehicle." If they run, they may need to keep a constant grip on a hidden gun to control it.

Just as cops generally blade their body to make their sidearm less accessible, armed criminals "do the same in encounters with LEOs to ensure concealment and easy access."

An irony, Davis noted, is that officers who are assigned to look for concealed weapons, while working off-duty security at night clubs for instance, are often highly proficient at detecting them. "But then when they go back to the street without that specific assignment, they seem to 'turn off' that skill," and thus are startled––sometimes fatally––when a suspect suddenly produces a weapon and attacks.

MIND-SET.

Thirty-six of the 50 officers in the study had "experienced hazardous situations where they had the legal authority" to use deadly force "but chose not to shoot." They averaged 4 such prior incidents before the encounters that the researchers investigated. "It appeared clear that none of these officers were willing to use deadly force against an offender if other options were available," the researchers concluded.

The offenders were of a different mind-set entirely. In fact, Davis said the study team "did not realize how cold blooded the younger generation of offender is. They have been exposed to killing after killing, they fully expect to get killed and they don't hesitate to shoot anybody, including a police officer. They can go from riding down the street saying what a beautiful day it is to killing in the next instant."

"Offenders typically displayed no moral or ethical restraints in using firearms," the report states. "In fact, the street combat veterans survived by developing a shoot-first mentality.

"Officers never can assume that a criminal is unarmed until they have thoroughly searched the person and the surroundings themselves." Nor, in the interest of personal safety, can officers "let their guards down in any type of law enforcement situation."

....

 

[cbm1948]

Guilty.
Quote:
..........they continually touch it to make sure it's still there.
One gun writer called it "piece pettin'".

Getting personal aren't we. This also happens a lot when you get older.

Clint

 

[ArmedBear]

WRT odd body movement, I'm more concerned with it giving me a back or knee ache. You can't walk too far, or for too long, without asymmetrical movement taking its toll. This matters for the daily carrier.

That said, I go on hikes for miles with a pocket gun, without any trouble. I just balance it out with a cell phone or wallet on the other side. Works fine.

I do sometimes pat my gun -- not the gun, really, but the clothes over it. I make sure a t-shirt is covering it if IWB or it isn't sticking out of my pocket. A giveaway? Maybe, but not as much as an exposed grip, right?

All told, I don't care if someone can tell I'm carrying, if they go through a lot of effort. I OC sometimes. I really don't care. There are just some places where I would just as soon not make it TOO obvious that I'm carrying a gun.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

WRT odd body movement, I'm more concerned with it giving me a back or knee ache. You can't walk too far, or for too long, without asymmetrical movement taking its toll. This matters for the daily carrier.

I dunno. I've walked across the panhandle of Viet Nam, across the Isthmus of Panama, and over many miles in other places carrying loads as asymetrical as the Army can make them (rifle on one shoulder, gas mask on the opposite thigh, and so on.) A .45 in an IWB is like nothing.

 

[ArmedBear]

I dunno. I've walked across the panhandle of Viet Nam, across the Isthmus of Panama, and over many miles in other places carrying loads as asymetrical as the Army can make them (rifle on one shoulder, gas mask on the opposite thigh, and so on.) A .45 in an IWB is like nothing.

My guess is that your body knows how to move well.

I'm referring specifically to the pictures above. If you're REALLY walking around all day with a limp, you're going to feel it sooner or later.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I've broken my leg twice in parachute jumps, had an Armored Personel Carrier shot out from under me (resulting in sundry broken bones and lacerations), run over an anti-tank mine (ditto), fallen off a ladder while painting the second story, had a bolting horse slam me into a tree, breaking my back, breaking ribs and bruising my heart.

Any asymetrical movement on my part is perfectly natural.

 

[ArmedBear]

LOL


Most of us probably aren't tougher than an APC.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Had a fellow tell me I was "accident prone." I pointed out a lot of this **** was done to me on purpose.

 

[ccsniper]

something in their pocket that has some weight to it that they touch a lot.

hmmmm.....