How to: The Broke College Student's Guide to Reloading 7.62x39

[tyeo098]

Preface: If you think this idea is stupid, then go buy your 25$/box Winchester 7.62x39 to load, and have your gun thow everywhere, you aren't broke enough for this thread!

7.62x39 (30 Short Russian) (x39 from now on) is a fun round to blast around with and chambered in a variety of fun guns.
Notably, as many know:
AK47 and variants
The Venerable SKS

The not-so-fun part comes when its time to actually buy ammo. Sure 5$ a box here and there can amount to a large stash over some time, but what about actually shooting some of it? The worst part is, when you're done shooting your 5$ box of x39 that's it. You don't get the shiny brass cases strewn everywhere like a $7 box of 5.56 or 10$ box of 9mm.
The fun is over. Go home and clean.

Or is it?

Many reloaders know that 99.99% of the steel cased ammunition (and foreign) out there is Berdan primed. Which, by the way was invented by an American. The boxer primer system we use? Invented by a European. Funny eh? The removable part of the Berdan primer system is the cup, which contains the powder. The familiar 3-pointed star (the anvil) that we normally see in a Boxer primer is actually built in to the case.

This anvil poses a problem that can be worked around by 2 solutions, each with its own challenges.

The first solution is to simply remove the anvil from a boxer-style primer and just seat the anvil-less primer cup in the case, using the anvil thats already there! BUT WAIT you say, how do we decap these cases without breaking my decapping pin and killing everyone in the process?

Thats the challenge. There are special (and expensive) tools out there that will accomplish this. Its usually involves piercing the primer cup and forcefully removing it.

"Expensive?" I hear you say, "I'm broke!" Alas, as am I comrade. Thats why after trial, error,and some research I've developed a way to decap the berdan case and remove that pesky anvil all at one. As well as reprime the case using modern large rifle boxer primers.

This is not for the faint of heart.

STEP ONE Case conversion from berdan to boxer

You would not be able to believe the amount of decapping pins I went though developing this method, and this step explains why.

The standard pin that came with my RCBS decapping die stuck out of the expander ball by a LOT. When this long, unsupported pin came in contact with the anvil dimple on the bottom the case, it would bend, and shatter in a spectacular fashion.

Materials 101: If you can't make something thicker, how do you make it stronger? make it shorter!
I figured I had enough 'extra' pin sticking out of the expander that I could safely remove some to decrease the length of the pin, making it more resistant to bending and shattering it in the process.

Here is a 'standard' headed decapping pin and my modified shorty pin.

The shorty pin is as short as I could go and actually have it pop the primer out of the case. Its .3885" long. If I could redo it, I'd go at least to .4000" as some times I really have to lean on the press to get that extra .001" I need to set the primer free.

Now reassemble your decapping assembly.

And set the depth in your die. I found that a good starting point for the depth is juuuuust so the bottom of the expander is a hair under flush with the bottom of the die.

Now grab your 'case lube' and lube the case. You don't need any more lube than you would with a brass case. Don't over do it.

Now set up the case and get ready for 'the technique'


THE TECHNIQUE
Raise the ram of your press until you can feel the decapping pin bottom out on the bottom of the case.
There is no flash hole there. We are going to make one.

I'll repeat this again as this is the most important part:
Raise the ram until you feel the pin bottom out on the case. You can't do it all in one fell swoop.
Once the pin bottoms out, it should center in the anvil dimple, the little nub where the metal was pressed to make the anvil on the other side.

Now, since you have the ram raised and the pin has bottomed out in the case add like, 2 pounds of pressure on the lever. This will ensure the ram doesn't jump in the next part. Not a lot of pressure, mind you. Just enough so it wont jump out of alignment I were to bump you.

NOW. Since the the ram is raised and the pin is bottomed out in the case, AND you have slight pressure on the lever... Give it a quick shove down, with a great deal of force. This will force the decapping pin, which is now shorter, into the anvil dimple, and out the other side. Taking not only the anvil, but the spent primer with it as well.
Hopefully if you followed the directions carefully and completely, when you remove the case you will be greeted with this beautiful sight:


If the pin jumps out of contact with the case 2 things will happen:
1) You'll break the pin. Go back to step one.
2) You'll get a dangler. A dangler is when instead of the anvil breaking clean off, it breaks off to one side. The case is not 'garbage' per se, but fixing it requires some extra work. Put them to the side, try again.

Now you have a sized and deprimed case!

 

[tyeo098]

Ok, so you've got your deprimed, hole-y cases, and you're thinking to yourself "But Tyeo, I have homework to do, why am I still reloading?"
Do not fret, for I ask myself the same question every day. Reloading is a great excuse to avoid that paper.

Anyways, stuff you'll need.

1) Your thingys. (Duh)


2) Large Rifle Primers (also duh)


3) Super glue. I recommend the Harbor Freight brand generic all-purpose industrial strength cyano-acrylate adhesive. Comes 3 to a pack for a buck. Use your 20% off coupon.


4) Choose 1! You'll either need a RCBS press-mounted primer pocket swager or a 3/16" drill bit. I recommend the primer pocket swager.
Its like 40$ but I've used it so many times its paid for itself already (and it was a christmas present, so, free...)

OR

(Pilot point recommended if you're going this route, but not needed.

EXPLANATION FOR WHY WE NEED ITEM #4
During the depriming process, when the case-mounted anvil gets torn from the case, sometimes it leaves a little jagged metal behind.
This jagged metal will cause the primer to not seat flush, and eventually cause chambering issues (depending on how tight your headspace is) or slamfires (when the primer get FORCEFULLY seated by the bolt face slamming into it trying to chamber.
This is why you always make sure the primers are seated flush in any reloaded round. Jimmy-jacked or otherwise

Here we see the jagged metal causing the primer to not seat flush. This is problem:


Here we see jagged metal removed or squished. Is no problem:


So what we need to do is use the primer swage tool to uniform the primer pocket. This is accomplished in 1 step.

Set up:


SQUISH!


This is what we should end up with afterwards, more than enough flash hole to get the job done, and just enough room to squeeze a LRP in there.


BUT! You say. The primer can slide in and out freely, surely this will cause issues!?
Ah, it will.
BUT! I exclaim in return. This is why we need the Harbor Freight brand generic all-purpose industrial strength cyano-acrylate adhesive
YES. YOU HEARD ME RIGHT. WE'RE GONNA SUPERGLUE THE PRIMERS IN PLACE

Go and get the case set up with the primer inserted, and get the nose of the superglue in the frame at the same time... (this is difficult to do)


Just a little, a dab'll do ya.


We just want enough so it starts to creep around the primer attaching it to the case.


Thats it! Now you have reprimed, converted boxer cases.
I've fired 300 or so of these cases (some reloaded 3 or 4 times) and I've never had any issues with primers falling out, etc.

Stay tuned!

 

[tyeo098]

Post reserved for part 3. Casting and loading.

 

[GaryL]

Looks kind of interesting. Might have to 'save' a little 'brass', so to speak. Just for grins and in case there's no other options.

 

[KansasSasquatch]

You can reload that steel if you want an go through all that extra trouble, or buy the expensive $25/box factory stuff, OR you could buy PRVI brass cases ammo for $12/box and reload it. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/25...-762x39mm-russian-123-grain-full-metal-jacket PRVI/PPU brass is good stuff. You also have to remember to make sure you don't wear/scratch/tumble off the coating on those steel casings if you're going to reload it, otherwise it could cause cycling issues or the ammo could rust before you get a chance to shoot it.

Also, if you're going to "punch out" the anvil on Berdan primed casings, I'd suggest getting a Lee Universal depriming die (or even a Lee sizing die). If you tighten the collet down on a Lee die enough it won't slip like its designed to. Lee pins are much more solid than RCBS pins. I've personally punched through a "few" Berdan primed x54R casings unknowingly (somehow mixed in with my brass at the range, didn't even know x54R Berdan BRASS existed) and the Lee pins didn't even flinch.

 

[John C]

To prevent your brass (or steel) from being flung all over the range, get/make a brass catcher. For rifles, you can attach it to the rifle.

Also, there are brands of steel cased ammo that are boxer primed. I've seen threads detailing how to reload that.

This is a great idea! My broke college student days are far behind me, but this is definitely something to keep in mind, should the need arise.

 

[Jesse Heywood]

I have started reloading steel cased ammo. I bought a bunch of Norinco ammo in the 80s for around $100 / 1440. At my local range, steel jacket projectiles are verbotten. Since I don't see shooting the couple thousand rounds in my lifetime, pulling the bullets, replacing the powder and bullets is a logical choice. And if the empty cases go ahead of the curtain and are not recoverable I don't care.

 

[tyeo098]

You also have to remember to make sure you don't wear/scratch/tumble off the coating on those steel casings if you're going to reload it, otherwise it could cause cycling issues or the ammo could rust before you get a chance to shoot it.

I've actually revived a few rusty cases by tumbling them. The walnut media I use in my vibratory tumbler does not seem to affect the poly coating on the cases. If I was that anal about it, I'd just tumble any rust off, and hit it again with a light mist of some clear-varnish polyurethane.

Also, if you're going to "punch out" the anvil on Berdan primed casings, I'd suggest getting a Lee Universal depriming die (or even a Lee sizing die). If you tighten the collet down on a Lee die enough it won't slip like its designed to. Lee pins are much more solid than RCBS pins.

I've had a Lee pin break with the collet tightened down for the same reason. Lee replaced it rather quick, but it was still a PITA having to wait for it, etc.

The reason I went with the RCBS pins is twofold:
1) The pins are easily replaceable in the off-chance I do break one. 15$ gets me 50 of the suckers.
2) Its what the guy was selling on AKfiles for 100$ with 200rds of the Winchester x39 brass cased stuff. Best deal ever.

To prevent your brass (or steel) from being flung all over the range, get/make a brass catcher. For rifles, you can attach it to the rifle.

Some guns are not easily adaptable to a mounted catcher (SKS), and the separate unit is not easily used/allowed in a small indoor range.

Also, there are brands of steel cased ammo that are boxer primed. I've seen threads detailing how to reload that.

How would that be different than reloading boxer primed brass?

 

[hartcreek]

Sometimes you just have to keep your eyes open.....I picked up 500 brand new cases last year for $56 at the gun shop down the street. I asked them if they had the right price on the brass and quickly payed for it and got out.

 

[Swampman]

tyeo098, excellent post! Your idea to increase strength and rigidity of the decapping pin by simply shortening it was ingenious!
I wish you had invented this method 20 years ago when Berdan primers were unobtainium except at very high prices. I probably would've used your method, it looks a lot easier than what we did back then which was use a drill press and drill 'em out.

But that was then and this is now.
I'm not trying to trash your thread, but there are better, cheaper ways to reload steel x39.

I just checked primer prices on Powder Valley.

WIN LARGE RIFLE PRIMERS (1000) $29.50

TULAMMO BERDAN (KV-24N) 7.62X39 PRIMERS (1000) $25.00

How is using a primer that costs $4.50/1000 more saving you money?

Plus you have to buy the super glue, and you're bound to break a few decapping pins.

Tap water is pretty much free, and steel case 7.62x39 is far and away the easiest case to hydro decap that I've ever worked with. Once I'm set up and going, I can deprime about 10 a minute.

If you've got a standard RCBS die set, about one square inch of Saran Wrap and a decent press (single stage is best), you've got all the tools you need to quickly and safely decap Berdan primers, including live corrosive primers or duds.

A standard Lee Autoprime works great with .217" Berdan primers.

I'm not going to say that super glued primers are dangerous, but I would call them sub-optimal.

Especially when the correct primers that are actually designed to fit and seal in the cases you're using actually cost less.

 

[tyeo098]

My experience with hydraulic decapping was awful, I do this once and never have to convert them again.
I would have to hydro-decap every time I wanted to reload the round. No thank you

I'm already using Large Rifle primers for 308, so buying another 1k primers for another round seems silly to me when I have 30k of LRP already on hand.

About the superglue, after loading them once the superglue bonds to the steel and seems to create a kind of grit that shrinks the size of the primer pocket. I've noticed that subsequent reloads do not have to be glued in place, and friction fit like normal boxer rounds.

Plus if I turn off the gas system in my Yugo SKS the cases never go anywhere and get a 100% recovery rate

 

[holdencm9]

Subbing because of ingenuity. Looking forward to the rest!