How would mag capacity restrictions change your SD handgun selection?

[X-Rap]

As others have said, the gun is the least of it.
There's plenty of folks who don't think they are at a disadvantage with a short barreled five shot revolver.

The problem with that statement is the two words "don't think". Pretty hard to walk it back if you really need 8,10, or even15.
The thing about limited capacity is admitting that you might be at a disadvantage.
If I had to live with a 10 round max my main stipulation would be not carrying a gun with the extra bulk of a higher capacity frame.

 

[Jason_W]

What I'm thinking right now is that since energy figures for all easily controllable handgun rounds are pretty much in the same ballpark and I'm limited to a 10-round capacity, I'd prefer those 10 bullets to punch the biggest hole possible.

Whether I go with a revolver, a neutered polymer auto, or a 1911 clone of some kind will depend on what feels good in my hands and available funds.

 

[pps]

If you have had your normal capacity magazines in your possession since before 2000, they are still legal to have and use...you just cannot manufacture, buy, sell, gift, or trade.

 

[9mmepiphany]

If you have had your normal capacity magazines in your possession since before 2000, <insert here> they are still legal to have and use...you just cannot manufacture, buy, sell, gift, <insert here> or trade.

...and they were in the state
...import

 

[45_auto]

...and they were in the state
...import

How do they know when they were in the state?

Did you have to register them?

If there's no registration required, how would they prove that you didn't have them in 2000? (Assuming that you're not stupid enough to have high-caps with something like "made in 2005" on them).

Just curious, I worked in Long beach for a couple of years about 30 years ago and have NO intention of ever going back!

 

[Phaedrus/69]

Tough question. 2 of my CCW guns hold <10, 6 of them hold > 10. It would sucks to carry a full sized gun to get compact gun capacity, yet the larger ones are also generally easier to shoot well. I suppose if I was limited to 10 round mags though it would be a good excuse to get an HK45c.

 

[9mmepiphany]

How do they know when they were in the state?

Did you have to register them?

If there's no registration required, how would they prove that you didn't have them in 2000? (Assuming that you're not stupid enough to have high-caps with something like "made in 2005" on them).

Just curious

Forewarned is forearmed

 

[Steve CT]

Magazine capacity DID affect my primary carry choice, it used to be a S&W Model 59. Where I live I could no longer carry this gun with a full magazine, my "partner" changed from 14+1 of 9mm to 8+1 of .45 ACP, in an older Springfield LW Commander that has been upgraded with some very good quality internals and fitting.

The 59 is still the house gun, with a second full magazine readily at hand, and an AR with 5x30 rounds one room away. Fortunately, magazine capacity is (not yet) an issue here as long as it is in my home.

And I did have to register magazines :banghead:

 

[Chris Sarno]

Long story short, I recently moved from Maine to northern California so my wife could take a major promotion with her employer.

In order to make it through our last Maine winter (and last year's was an expensive one) and also help fund the move out here, I sold all of my guns and gun stuff excepting two that held sentimental value.

Now that I finally have a line on a job out here, I'm planning to start refilling my gun safe.

As most of you know, California gun laws are an illogical mess and two of the biggest stumbling blocks for a handgun purchase are the 10-round mag capacity restrictions and the ever changing roster of "safe" handguns that can be sold in the state.

Someone on here once wrote something to effect of, "Shot placement is king, capacity is queen, and chambering is the court jester." Which makes a good deal of sense. But what happens when capacity is limited by law? Does it then make sense to step up in the power of the round you shoot and practice enough to shoot accurately in spite of the increased recoil?

I'm not a complete stranger to handguns, though I've never been a good or even decent handgun shot. I know that of all the round/gun combos I've tried, I enjoyed shooting (and was the most accurate with) .44 specials from a 6" barrel Ruger single action revolver the most. Not exactly a recommended platform for self defense, but maybe as a backup to a good shotgun? Concealed carry isn't really an option for us lowly civilians around here.

Nothing wrong with six or seven shot .38 spls or .357 magnums.

 

[Sauer Grapes]

Mag capacity seldom hampers me. Usually carry a single stack 9mm anyway.

 

[X-Rap]

If you move to a state, post magazine ban and try to say those you possess are grandfathered you might have a hard time seeing how many of the laws are written.

 

[S&Wfan]

I live in a free state where I can carry any handgun I wish. I've carried everything from high cap 9mms, full-sized (and "officer's sized) 1911s, revolvers in many calibers, you name it. That being said . .

If I moved to the Left Coast I'd still carry the same thing though as my main CCW . . . a FIVE SHOT S&W Airweight. I shoot S&W revolvers incredibly well after all these years and I feel quite well-protected with the 5-shooter. It is incredibly light, conceals well and always goes bang.

Carrying a high-cap bottom feeder with the weight of 18 rounds or so of ammo is SO much heavier . . . and thus you might not have it on you at all times. A CCW weapon must be on you when trouble comes. That's why the rest of my old picks mainly stay in the safe . . . BUT it was hard to give up the big bottom feeders at first, so I decided to give the little airweight 30 solid days to make sure. That was YEARS ago now.

POINTS TO PONDER . . .
1. If you need more than five, don't engage! However, like birds on a wire, thugs scatter at the first loud report. Hit the first one and the rest will usually flee and leave their buddy to survive or bleed out.

2. Make every shot count, trust your training and your practice, and you'll be just fine.

3. OTOH, if a man can't hit the side of a barn I recommend a single shot . . . less chance of hurting or killing innocent bystanders!!!

4. Finally, shut off the TV. Hollywood has always made movies where guns are mostly full autos and even Roy Roger's six gun fired as many rounds as today's high caps. Hollywood is NOT reality!

Seriously, turn off the tv . . . get some good practice in at the range . . . shoot some serious handgun competitions and hone your skills and you won't need more than five (with a speed strip of an extra five if you feel the need). Better yet, skip the speed strip and carry an extra gun instead. This way, if something happens to your first gun you still have a gun!

 

[ljnowell]

I live in a free state where I can carry any handgun I wish. I've carried everything from high cap 9mms, full-sized (and "officer's sized) 1911s, revolvers in many calibers, you name it. That being said . .



If I moved to the Left Coast I'd still carry the same thing though as my main CCW . . . a FIVE SHOT S&W Airweight. I shoot S&W revolvers incredibly well after all these years and I feel quite well-protected with the 5-shooter. It is incredibly light, conceals well and always goes bang.



Carrying a high-cap bottom feeder with the weight of 18 rounds or so of ammo is SO much heavier . . . and thus you might not have it on you at all times. A CCW weapon must be on you when trouble comes. That's why the rest of my old picks mainly stay in the safe . . . BUT it was hard to give up the big bottom feeders at first, so I decided to give the little airweight 30 solid days to make sure. That was YEARS ago now.



POINTS TO PONDER . . .

1. If you need more than five, don't engage! However, like birds on a wire, thugs scatter at the first loud report. Hit the first one and the rest will usually flee and leave their buddy to survive or bleed out.



2. Make every shot count, trust your training and your practice, and you'll be just fine.



3. OTOH, if a man can't hit the side of a barn I recommend a single shot . . . less chance of hurting or killing innocent bystanders!!!



4. Finally, shut off the TV. Hollywood has always made movies where guns are mostly full autos and even Roy Roger's six gun fired as many rounds as today's high caps. Hollywood is NOT reality!



Seriously, turn off the tv . . . get some good practice in at the range . . . shoot some serious handgun competitions and hone your skills and you won't need more than five (with a speed strip of an extra five if you feel the need). Better yet, skip the speed strip and carry an extra gun instead. This way, if something happens to your first gun you still have a gun!

I agree with much of what you say. Here in IL I can carry any handgun and any side magazine but I still carry my airweight it's days. If I'm
Venturing far from home I carry a bigger gun, but it's not often.

 

[Bobson]

As far as I'm concerned, man, you'll never have a better excuse to get a nice 1911. Can't own a gun with capacity over 10 rds anyway. May as well get the Cadillac of single stacks. That's what I'd do. Carry wouldn't be out of the question either, if you do manage to get a permit.

 

[AlexanderA]

I think the mag capacity issue (for handguns) is overstated. (Don't get me wrong. I think we should be able to buy whatever we want.)

Two thoughts:

1. Statistics show that in a defensive gunfight (and this includes police shootings) the outcome is almost always decided with the first few rounds -- certainly less than 7. Emptying a 15-round magazine is just a waste. But being able to change magazines quickly is important.

2. The greater the magazine capacity, the bulkier the gun. Ergonomics is important. I have relatively small hands. My Beretta 92 is very awkward for me, especially with the long double-action trigger. I much prefer the single-stack, single-action 1911 with the short trigger. Call me a traditionalist.

 

[Mp7]

SigSauer police trade in

.... what`s not to like

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/411548668

 

[HexHead]

I suppose if I was limited to 10 round mags though it would be a good excuse to get an HK45c.

The C uses 8-round mags unless you're using the Tactical's "elephant foot" mag. The HK45, with it's 10-round mags, makes a great HD gun.

 

[psyopspec]

1. Statistics show that in a defensive gunfight (and this includes police shootings) the outcome is almost always decided with the first few rounds -- certainly less than 7. Emptying a 15-round magazine is just a waste. But being able to change magazines quickly is important.

That's a good plan so long as any CCW encounter you find yourself in doesn't deviate from a statistical mean. Having just read Massad Ayoob's most recent book, I can't help but shake the image of one of the CCW cases he mentions in which a person defended himself from an attack that only stopped after the victim emptied all 9 rounds of his 9mm CCW into the aggressor.

I carry not for the odds of needing to defend myself, but the stakes. Having already checked all boxes of opportunity cost, it may as well be a fighting handgun whenever that's possible. It would suck to have the training and knowledge, but die anyway because one only prepared for a statistical minimum or average.

 

[X-Rap]

Home invasions almost always involve multiple attackers, gangs by their definition include more than one.
I have stated before that at times one must for one reason or another carry something less than optimum but to be so blind or ignorant as to dispel the possibility of needing more must be grand.
The old cliches always pop up about how cowardly criminals are and how those who us "bottom feeders" are inherently less capable than those who are as skilled as the 5 shot revolver shooter.
Not one who chooses to be dictated by statistics.

 

[TomJ]

I live in a free state where I can carry any handgun I wish. I've carried everything from high cap 9mms, full-sized (and "officer's sized) 1911s, revolvers in many calibers, you name it. That being said . .

If I moved to the Left Coast I'd still carry the same thing though as my main CCW . . . a FIVE SHOT S&W Airweight. I shoot S&W revolvers incredibly well after all these years and I feel quite well-protected with the 5-shooter. It is incredibly light, conceals well and always goes bang.

Carrying a high-cap bottom feeder with the weight of 18 rounds or so of ammo is SO much heavier . . . and thus you might not have it on you at all times. A CCW weapon must be on you when trouble comes. That's why the rest of my old picks mainly stay in the safe . . . BUT it was hard to give up the big bottom feeders at first, so I decided to give the little airweight 30 solid days to make sure. That was YEARS ago now.

POINTS TO PONDER . . .
1. If you need more than five, don't engage! However, like birds on a wire, thugs scatter at the first loud report. Hit the first one and the rest will usually flee and leave their buddy to survive or bleed out.

2. Make every shot count, trust your training and your practice, and you'll be just fine.

3. OTOH, if a man can't hit the side of a barn I recommend a single shot . . . less chance of hurting or killing innocent bystanders!!!

4. Finally, shut off the TV. Hollywood has always made movies where guns are mostly full autos and even Roy Roger's six gun fired as many rounds as today's high caps. Hollywood is NOT reality!

Seriously, turn off the tv . . . get some good practice in at the range . . . shoot some serious handgun competitions and hone your skills and you won't need more than five (with a speed strip of an extra five if you feel the need). Better yet, skip the speed strip and carry an extra gun instead. This way, if something happens to your first gun you still have a gun!

What a person carries is a personal choice based on a number of factors, and it's not my place to question their decision. I do, however, have 3 questions regarding point 1. First, if you didn't have to engage, why would you regardless of how many rounds your gun holds? IMO using your gun should be the last resort, as the moral, legal and financial consequences of doing so are too great. Second, how do you know under what circumstances you'll be attacked, and whether the choice to engage or not is available? Finally, how do you know that thugs will scatter after the first shot is fired? Not all thugs are the same, and they will react differently. I'm not sure this assumption is the reason I'd carry a lower capacity gun.

 

[ABTOMAT]

At one point not too long ago it was typical for a detective to carry a 5-shot snub with a couple speedloaders. I get the feeling any problem I have that can't be solved with that firepower probably wouldn't be solved, period.

 

[guyfromohio]

I suggest people get on the Youtube and do searches of police shootings. Sure, it's the Internet, but a layperson like myself has no other way of seeing real shootings. You will note from these videos that the bad guy never drops from the first round. Usually drops after multiple shots are fired and several seconds. Modern training (at least the training that I have attended as recently as two weeks ago) teaches that more leaking holes stops the threat more quickly and that the difference between a 9mm hole and a .45 hole is negligible (in terms of bodily harm) in soft tissue.

 

[BSA1]

TomJ,

The simplest answer is to arm yourself and prepare defensive tactics based on the type of crimes being committed in your community. Being mugged by a single person when using a ATM requires different gun and defensive tactics than a home invasion by multiple attackers.


But be very careful about drawing conclusions based on media reports. There was a news report recently in a nearby city that I work in of a armed home invasion by several attackers in which the woman that lived in house was shot twice. Aha! Proof that homeowners are being attacked and shot in their own homes..

But as Paul Harvey says the rest of the story is the very last line of the news report was Police said there was selling of illegal marijuana from the home and the dealer owed some money.

So it would be easy to miss the last sentence and conclude the average law abiding homeowner is at risk.

 

[TomJ]

BSA1,

That's sound advice. I live in the Chicago area, and while our suburb has a low crime rate we're not far from areas with gang problems. For me, preparing for multiple attackers and therefore higher capacity guns is the "right" thing to do as it's not uncommon for our criminals to travel in packs. I completely understand that other areas of the country don't have the problems Chicago does, and other decisions may be more appropriate.

In regards to the media, I don't pay attention to them as they lost credibility with me long ago.