How would THR member fare in North Hollywood shooting?

[twoblink]

how would THR member fair in North Hollywood shooting?

I was just curious, if it weren't the LAPD, and it was say..

Tamara, Art, Lawdog, Oleg, Runt, myself, Skunk, Kaylee, etc..

Are we more prepared for a firefight against armed men with semi-auto rifles and body armor... if we were armed only with what the LAPD had?

I'm just curious if it was a logistical equipment failure, or a training and tactical tactics failure..

Thoughts?

 

[WonderNine]

Shoot them in the face, legs and arms. I guess that concept was too complicated for the L.A. pd.

 

[Justin]

urgh

 

[WonderNine]

What was their plan of escape btw?

 

[BerettaNut92]

I'd find a nice spot to crap my pants first.

"Quick, fetch my brown pants!"

Has my Beretta M92 been to Ernest Langdon?

 

[Tamara]

What?!?

Why would I be there?

If the guys weren't actively shooting at me, why would I start shooting at them?

The depositor's money is insured by the FDIC. While the BG's came running out of the bank to hop in the getaway car, I'd be strolling down the street to buy Art & Lawdog a beer. I have no desire to play Carmen Commando.

 

[twoblink]

Skunk..

I see you have made every one of your pairs of pants into brown pants..

I'm usually fairly calm in stressful situations (the more stressful the situation, the calmer I get.. it's sick)

And so I would probably be able to pull off a few shots, I don't know about "aimed" shots though, especially a moving small target like the head..

But I'd definitely try to shootout the legs..

 

[sm]

Tamara, thank you, common sense prevails.

I would hope all THR members would think and respond in like manner.

 

[Powderman]

Don't know if you'd want general replies;

but I'd back off and engage from about 200 yards with my .300 Win Mag and 175 grain MatchKings. Let's see them shrug THAT off.

 

[BerettaNut92]

FWIW I'd be with Tamara running the other way and sucking a Slurpee from my Camelbak....

 

[Tamara]

BTW,

I'm just curious if it was a logistical equipment failure...

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means, what you think it means." -Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

 

[twoblink]

It seems to me, that maybe there was like 3 rifles, and 20 cops that needed rifles.. That's a logistical failure..

Tamara.. If I run away with you all, would you buy me an icecream cone?

Hmm... what if you WERE being shot at? Say stray bullets start whizzing by yours and Art's head??

 

[WonderNine]

If the guys weren't actively shooting at me, why would I start shooting at them?

I think he was trying to say that if THR members were in the LAPD and being shot at.

 

[jmbg29]

Cry havoc! And let slip the rodents of unusual size.

Logistically speaking, that is what I would do.

Either that, or stow the 9mm mouse gun, and grab the scattergun for some good old-fashioned headshot fun.

Headshot...Hollyweird...get it?

 

[Tamara]

I think he was trying to say that if THR members were in the LAPD and being shot at.

I was trying to make a light answer to what is essentially a pointless question.

Anybody who thinks they can predict how themselves and seven other people that they mostly know over the internet would perform versus the performance of seven people who were there (whose skills and abilities are a complete cipher to each and every one of us) is engaging in rank speculation of the first order.

To sit there and toss comments around like "Well, I'm pretty calm, so I'd shoot for their legs..." is... is... I don't even know how to describe it. Shoot for whose legs? With what? Beretta? Rifle? Shotgun? From where? The parking lot across the street? The middle of the intersection?

This is just talking to hear our heads roar.

While we're discussing it, what is the sound of one hand clapping?

 

[WonderNine]

Yes, we're very well aware of all the variables involved. But it was an interesting question. Wondering if the experience and/or training of some of the members here would have made a difference.

 

[UnknownSailor]

I'm with powderman on this one. Scoped rifle+head shot=problem solved.

Not that I'm trained as yet to do this, but this is what I would do, as long as we are speaking hypothetically.

Frankly, I am suprised it didn't happen for real. This went down over the space of 44 minutes, right next to a residential neighborhood, on live TV. Didn't anyone close by with a hunting rifle think to offer assistance? Or are hunters so few and far between in LA that nobody could?

 

[Thumper]

Ummm...

Twoblink, your implied superiority to LAPD S.W.A.T. and Zen like calmness in the face of danger nothwithstanding...

How many rounds did you put downrange this week?

Counterstrike or Airsoft don't count.

 

[WonderNine]

He didn't imply. He asked. Ok?

 

[twoblink]

Thumper,

I never make the claim that I'm superior to SWAT or the LAPD...

And my Zen like shooting probably will miss 100% of the time, that much I'll freely admit to..

I have read so many accounts of this shooting, some articles just said straight out, they were undergunned. But a few articles basically said that it was all training, that if there was sufficient training, that would have solved the problem..

Quite a few people on THR seems fairly well trained, and I have always wondered, is it REALLY a superior firepower issue, or a training issue?

Tamara.. I CAN do a one handed clap, so next time I see you, remind me, and I'll let you hear what a one handed clap sounds like...

 

[WonderNine]

There's too many people on here willing to make the "you're an armchair commando" smart aleck remarks even when it isn't warranted. If anyone deserved them, I did with my first post in this thread.

Tamara.. I CAN do a one handed clap, so next time I see you, remind me, and I'll let you hear what a one handed clap sounds like...

Ya, I saw that episode of The Simpsons many years ago too...

 

[Thumper]

They warned us about the one handed clap when I was stationed in Germany.

I re-read my post and I seemed a little rude. Sorry. Just seemed like you were taking it over the top a little with the

the more stressful the situation, the calmer I get.. it's sick

comment.

I have to ask:

If you're so prone to missing, why would

Are we more prepared for a firefight against armed men with semi-auto rifles and body armor... if we were armed only with what the LAPD had?

be a valid question? In what way might you be superior to LAPD SWAT?

Edited to add that there was nothing semi-auto about those AKs.

 

[Thumper]

There's too many people on here willing to make the "you're an armchair commando" smart aleck remarks even when it isn't warranted.

Sorry, WonderNine, but I believe it's occasionally warranted here.

I equate "armchair commando" to Monday morning quarterback.

It's funny to me how many here believe that their bi-monthly trip to the range and their extensive gun collection makes them some sort of tactical god. Three days at Thunder Ranch doesn't cut it either.

Owning a violin doesn't make you a maestro.

 

[Jim March]

Well let's clarify the situation a bit.

Let's say we have the typical THRer with a CCW piece, S&W 66 or a 9mm or a 1911 or whatever, minding our own biz with an unarmed friend or family member, and these two heavily armed and armored loonies come popping out of a bank spraying ammo like the 1,000 rounds they're packing have an expiration date of "tomorrow" . And the LAPD is all still on donut break for the moment.

We have advantages over the average citizen all right, but the biggest advantages have little to do with our guns. We know what trouble with a capital "T" looks like, we know that those ARE gunshots going off because we're quite familiar with the sound, and we know the difference between "concealment" and "cover". We would very VERY rapidly seek out the latter and drag whoever's nearby along.

That one action right there puts us at an advantage: less "startle effect" (or "deer in the headlights syndrome") than the sheeple.

Now what? Can we STOP those clowns single-handedly?

HELL no.

Can we dissuade them from advancing on our covered position, and pick a different escape route?

Probably. Still dicey, but not a total crapshoot. Basically, those nutcases DID want out of there, and wouldn't want to hang around and trade pot-shots with some dude with a 357 or whatever hiding around the corner of a brick building.



I'd recommend letting them run away, rather than risk wounding 'em and causing them to stick around and continue hosing anything that moves. 'Specially with two of 'em. ONE baddie, if you think you have a headshot available, maybe. Still damned risky.

 

[twoblink]

Thumper..

So any theoretical questions are out because we would be arm-chairing it??

I own a violin. I can do a one-handed clap. Any thing else?

There are people here I think are a LOT more well trained than the regular LAPD. But I guess from your point of view, if you are not in uniform, you are inferior in shooting skills?

I know personally, I have put more bullets down range than my LEO friends in the LAPD... but I guess that means nothing..

Also, I have seen bank robbery shooting etc.. here in LA. Some cops panic and lose it, they aren't trained for this. They don't seem to practice stressful situations. So that might be what happened in the shooting... yes? no?

There is still the curiousity I have, of why nobody tried to run them over with a car..

Thumper.. LAPD and LAPD SWAT are different animals.. Let's at least agree on that...