How would THR member fare in North Hollywood shooting?

[coonan357]

1. I would do nothing becaus eI would not be there , I hate being in illinois why would I want to be somewhere worse!

 

[benEzra]

I agree, the wise thing to do would be to "get scarce."

They: have body armor, lots of ammo, full-auto rifles, and know how to use them.

They did have the equipment, yes, but I don't think they new how to use them. They fired over 1,000 rounds and managed to hit six police officers, three civilians, and a dog, none fatally. Not exactly a feat of marksmanship . . .

 

[Gewehr98]

Well...

I'd have a better plan of escape after I robbed the bank.

Not much I could do about the lack of body armor over the extremities and head, but I'd definitely not stay exposed or linger on site as long as Emil Matasareanu did. His partner, Larry Eugene Phillips, shot himself at the same time a police bullet hit him.

News reports of the day state they had a lot more ammo on their persons, so were they to avoid getting hit they could have fought longer. But by then they were the major focus of the entire police force, with television and police helicopters maintaining contact. Getaway at that point would have been difficult, if not impossible.

What was that movie where the bank robbers were a complete SWAT team? That keeps flashing back in my mind, as well as scenes from Thunderbolt & Lightfoot.

 

[Thumper]

Gewehr, you're right...the Romanian guy ended up fighting with an AR, one of the rifles he transeferred from his trunk.

He was hit 26 times, mostly in the extremities (armored by the way, with hand sewn Kevlar).

SWAT finally settled his hash using aggressive fire techniques and outstanding communication (One SWAT officer in a strategically forward position was seamlessly replaced when his weapon malfed).

Responding officers did an outstanding job of containing these guys for 45 minutes in the face of overwhelming fire and ineffective cover. I'd say they did a pretty good job.

 

[twoblink]

I might be one of the few that has talked to the B&B owner who was handing out AR15's to the cops during that situation..

He said, it SOUNDED BAD... That he'd hear, bang bang bang... and then SPRAYYYYYY..

From the detailed diagram I have seen of the scenerio.. It looks like they were pretty well surrounded by a 270 degree arc of police.. Most shooting by the two had their backs facing someone at all time..

Did they mall ninja it, and have a lot of armor on the back too?

I would have liked to see more calm shots, instead of random shootings by the LAPD, but of course, I say that in the comfort of my chair, in front of my computer, so the bias is definitely there.. take that with a bag of salt.

I'm curious if this basically tells the LAPD that they need a bit more firepower on their side. I know M16's because somewhat standard issue for a few of the motor-cops in LA..

Was there any department training of any sort for handling multiple assaliants with hi-powered full auto weapons?

Thumper, you seem to think that I'm knocking the LAPD, and that I'm sniffing that I can do a lot better. Not making that statement at all, just wanted to know, if it was a failure to arm these guys sufficiently, or if it was a failure on the part of their training..

 

[Thumper]

Didn't think that at all, 'blink.

Interesting reading here:

http://www.student.oulu.fi/~hmikkola/shootout.html

 

[Harold Mayo]

I'd fare just like the LAPD did since I would be letting them do their job while I concentrated on getting out of there.

 

[Matt G]

Training or equipment failure? Well, of the two, I'd have to say equipment, mostly. A couple of patrol rifles could have ended the thing quickly. That said, 20+ officers making careful shots at the head should land a hit or two. Some training at longer range for tight groups under stress would not be out of order.

But frankly, a M-94 .30-30 or an SKS, properly employed, would have ended the fight in pretty short order. Cheap to equip an officer with an effective fight-stopper, no?

 

[twoblink]

I'm thinking, SKS with a folding stock would have been a nice side rider for most cop cars..

And as far as affordability.. well, they are about as cheap as they come!..

Also, accuracy might be a problem, but I've never heard of reliability as a problem in an SKS.. The trigger is horrible though...

 

[Jim March]

OK, let's tweak the scenario a bit. You're LAPD. Ordinary cop. You're in B&B "shopping" for something that will deal with these twits. Gunfire echos outside.

What do you grab?



My top choice: Marlin 45-70 "Appalachian Assault Rifle" (read: levergun) with the gnarliest 400+ grain monster flatpoint hardcast they've got. Garrett 540s would be *perfect*. A "Guide Gun" (18" barrel will do) but if they've got one of the 24" - 26" versions with up to 10rd capacity, hell ya .

Knock the suckers for a serious loop . See how well they "spray" with busted up ribs, sternum, boinked-up liver, puked-up spleens, God only knows what, equivelent to just wailin' on 'em with a sledgehammer for a while.

 

[Thumper]

Open sight BAR in .270

I want something I'm sure will zip through and has the capacity and lack of recoil for at least one quick follow up shot apiece.

 

[MicroBalrog]

So we are arm-chairing it, so what?

I don't own a gun and have no training

While Tamara is running for her life , I'd ask her to lend me a semi-auto HK91 or FAL. Then I'd run up as close as possible and shoot at them. Thus, I'd draw fire and distract them for the few seconds second necessary for Thumper to get them two lethal head shots.
Then he and Tamara could Med-Evac me.

 

[Thumper]

Trauma plates be damned...I'm not gonna try a head shot on some nasty with an AK.

Center mass, baby...like Drill Sgt. Morrell said...

To be honest, I'da done been gone...I'm just entertaining Jim's thread hijack.

 

[Billy Sparks]

This can be a very thought provoking post. What would I do? The famous 275 pound man hides behind a peeble routine. It is REALLY hard to say what we would do in any situation unless you have been put in that situation (I know this has been said before). First there is the adreanal[sp] dump that makes fine motor skills (like holding your hands still) almost impossible, then there is the worry in my mind that the PD is going to think I am another bad guy and shoot me. I trully don't think I would stop running until about Tennessee....anyone know of a good eating place there abouts??

 

[OEF_VET]

I'd be running away, screaming like a little girl. Well, ok, my asthma would prevent me from screaming while I was running, but I'd definitly be running, as fast as I could! Someone just please have an Albuterol inhaler on them when I get to wherever the beer is.

The most likely reasons the cops grabbed AR's are 1) some may have had experience with them vis a vis the military, and 2) they were in California, and all Kalifornians know that AR-15's are evil rifles that kill people on their own, with minimal assistance from their operators.

 

[Art Eatman]

I can only judge by what I did on Charley Whitman day. That day, I hid behind a tree the instant I understood the problem. I then gave a bunch of thought as to how to safely practice not being there. With no obvious answer, "I stayed hid!"

If I'm in the BG's path as they exit the bank, "I can't get no lower; my belt buckle's in the way," as I try to be very obviously no threat. If I'm carrying, I'll give thought to shooting them in the back--if it looks safe for strays and passersby; and me, too.

Otherwise? Hey, I'm with Tamara. It's gotta be around beer-thirty, somewhere...

, Art

 

[Hot brass]

I don`t even want to go there

I have not met any of you, but I considder you friends.
Those guys were serious
Let the pro`s handle that kind of engagement.

If it does happen to you, I know you will kick hind end

 

[seeker_two]

Remember the old days when someone robbing the local bank tended to get the "warm welcome" from the townsfolk as did the Daltons?...

 

[cratz2]

This thread has drifted too far for serious contributions but I've often wondered how many rounds were placed square in the middle of their armored torsos. I mean, in the movie Scream 3, there's a guy wearing armor and the cop keeps shooting into the center of mass until someone else suggests 'HEAD! HEAD!' I think if I had a rifle and I put 5 rounds into what I KNOW were wolid hits, I'd start aiming for the head and legs.

If I wasn't with SWAT team, I'd definately be as low as possible moving in a direction opposite of the bad guys. Even if I had an AR15.

 

[braindead0]

I lived about 4 blocks away when this happened, and I was home.

Guess what, I stayed there!!

Seems to me that a 12ga slug would knock you down regardless of body armor..perhaps all they had was buck.

What I do know is that the shop they borrowed to 'evil assualt rifles' and ammunition from..is gone. B&B used to be one of the best gun stores...tis a shame.

Oh well, next time is happens..they'll have to find their own guns.

 

[twoblink]

How many seconds delay is the usual grenade fuse??

 

[Coronach]

Seems to me that a 12ga slug would knock you down regardless of body armor

How well did you do in physics class, exactly?

Mike