Howdy folks. Gun ownership in the UK,

[Camp David]

Because handguns were outlawed, so only the outlaws now have handguns. Basically, none of the legally held handguns that were around prior to the ban are around today, this is due to the fact they were all registered, the legitimate handgun owners turned their guns over due to force & fear exerted on them from the Government, so the Government quickly accounted for all of the legally held firearms...

Blair=> This sort of reminds me of what happened here on this side of the pond when the District of Columbia (the capital area here) passed widespread gun bans and the tightest gun control here in the states. The result? Besides the increase in crime they made guns go underground. Today there are lots of handguns in the District; citizens that have them keep them well hidden and criminals are free to prey upon those who lawfully complied. A very sick situation. Also a classic case of the utter folly of gun control.

 

[Crosshair]

I'd say print up some of Olegs work and tack them up where you can. They can be very convincing, we need to chip this away one thing at a time. BTW if you're police department has guns mabee you can campaign to have them loose their guns. Since we can't have them, then neither can you. Though that may backfire.

/Just throwing out ideas.

 

[Blair]

I'd say print up some of Olegs work and tack them up where you can. They can be very convincing, we need to chip this away one thing at a time.

That's a very good idea. I think I'll take a bunch to University and put them up. Heck, the commies put stuff up, so I guess it's the proper place for activism.

BTW if you're police department has guns mabee you can campaign to have them loose their guns. Since we can't have them, then neither can you. Though that may backfire.

Not so sure on this one. UK officers are traditionally unarmed, they are -increasingly- putting armed officers on the street though, but if I resist this move too overtly, that might give further support to the "gun free society" folks.

And we certianly wouldn't want that.

Anyways, off to print out some of Oleg's work. I'll tack them up at various places on Campus tomorrow.

 

[Average Joe]

When you get you law degree, sue em !

 

[thatguy]

Always interesting to hear from friends in other countries.

If you wish to do some scholarly research on the subject of guns and crime I suggest you consult the writings of Dr. Gary Kleck and Dr. John Lott.

Here in the States we have to deal with layers of laws. Federal laws apply to everyone, while state and local laws affect smaller groups. So we have a situation where you might live in the state of California with very restrictive (for America) gun laws and a few yards away over the state line in Nevada you can easily carry a concealed firearm or even own a machinegun. My stae is one of the better ones (but not the best) in leaving law-abiding gun owners alone.

If you ever plan a visit let us know. You'd certainly be welcome to drop by my place and we could go out to the range where you can shoot anything I have (and that's a fairly substantial variety).

BTW- I'm not Scottish, but my heritage if definitely English. In fact, I have a letter from an English lawyer somewhere in my desk describing a kinghthood that was passed on to me by some ancestor who apparently fought in the Crusades.

 

[Manedwolf]

A claymore that my ancestors would have used to kill English soldiers? Or a claymore that your ancestors used to counter Chinese "human wave attacks"?

Owning a sword is currently legal in the UK, however they will -very soon- be banned in a new wave of "anti-social behaviour" legislation.

There is something so very, very ironic and horribly wrong about a nation that came to be BY the sword deciding to ban them...

Sort of echos the US, in its way, which came to be because of a lot of people who were fed up were able to get Brown Besses, stolen field pieces and the like...but where attempts are made whenever possible to ban OUR tool of national origin.

 

[Manedwolf]

Maybe our two great countries could reach some kind of agreement? Perhaps you could ship all of your Dianne Feinsteins and your Bradys and all your other socialist gun grabbers over here to the UK, and we could move people like me over to the US?

I'd rather ship that sort over to, say, North Korea, where they can watch a dictator's enforcers haul their neighbors out into fields for enforcing-fear public executions for charges like "communicating with outsiders." (If you saw the recent film that got out of there.)

And then see how they feel about an armed populace.

 

[Manedwolf]

G*d that is so sad.

Sounds like a prototype for San Francisco. Except there, I bet it'll be that old war-vet widows' Nambus and such will just end up on auctions being sold by crooked officials/clerks/etc.

There's a lot of historically significant guns in SF, what with it being a gold rush town and all, and I'm afraid that a lot of people who don't know better are going to turn in the "old gun in the attic" that's a great-grandfather's Colt worth thousands or something.

 

[Blair]

If you wish to do some scholarly research on the subject of guns and crime I suggest you consult the writings of Dr. Gary Kleck and Dr. John Lott.

Indeed. The year before I left high school, for my Advanced Higher dissertation, I chose the subject of gun-control. Kleck & Lott were my two best sources. The dissertation secured me an "A", the exam board cited "the quality and quantity" of my research as well as "excellent logic" but appeared to frown upon my "unconventional conclusion".

I actually sent a copy of the dissertation to Cathy Jamieson, the Scottish Justice Minister. However she only replied -via email- that she had "read it". She refused to comment on the validity of my research, instead she opted to continue making it hard for law abiding citizens to own armaments.

If you ever plan a visit let us know. You'd certainly be welcome to drop by my place and we could go out to the range where you can shoot anything I have (and that's a fairly substantial variety).

Good deal, thanks!

 

[TallPine]

And I have a little shooting range in my "backyard" if you ever visit Montana, mo charaid Blair

 

[pmcbooks]

It really is a shame, because every so often -when the police have built up a stockpile of confiscated CZ75s- they destroy them in public as a show of "police power". Surely these pistols should be auctioned off to law abiding citizens? This would put the weapon that is "the choice of the criminal" into good-law abiding hands.

My sight went blurry for a moment and I had a vision of a revolution bootstrapped by a conveniently gathered pile of CZ-75's displayed tantalizingly before a public crowd...

 

[GoBrush]

Blair:

Actually you need to have a home here and a home there dual citizenship

Welcome friend

Good Luck and keep up the fight

 

[Bluey]

Pretty much all of what blair has posted in this thread rings a bell with me. Unfortunetly I can see Australia heading down the same path as the UK, with the gun laws of 1996, the further restrictions placed on handguns, and the anti-terror laws that got passed this week (not to mention there is currently talk of banning activities such as duck hunting).
I feel like the Australia I love is slipping away.
As for the effectivness of the laws...well lets just say I can *hypotheticly* get hold of a ruger .22 handgun with a couple of magazines for around $500AU. For the moment though, I'll stick to blundering through the red tape. It's not like I can afford anything new in the way of bang sticks at the moment anyway

 

[Tokugawa]

Welcome. It's ok to move here, my ancestors saw the trend and bailed out of England in the early 1600's. We have been treated pretty well, and burned our English bridges at Concord. Since then things have gone fine, opportunities have been abundant for honest hardworking whalers, farmers and tradesmen.

 

[Pilot]

There's a lot of historically significant guns in SF, what with it being a gold rush town and all, and I'm afraid that a lot of people who don't know better are going to turn in the "old gun in the attic" that's a great-grandfather's Colt worth thousands or something.

If they are that stupid and still live in SF, then they deserve what they get. But, yes, I agree if its a valualbe, historic piece it should go to someone that appreciates it, not the SF Police aka SS.

 

[iapetus]

Owning a sword is currently legal in the UK, however they will -very soon- be banned in a new wave of "anti-social behaviour" legislation.

I haven't heard anything about that. Where did you hear that?

Btw, Welcome to THR, (from a fellow UK citizen, too!)

 

[Cosmoline]

Reading these posts reminds me how good we have it here, with unrestricted CCW and very broad civilian firearm ownership. I can't imagine living under the boot of those gun laws.

 

[kentucky bucky]

Hey Blair, C'mon over!!!

My ancestors fled the Border area over 250 years ago and ended up in Kentucky. Too bad, but it looks like time for you and your kind to do the same, and for much the same reason. I have a friend in Newcastle opon Tyne that I actually feel sorry for in a way, because it's like his own government has turned on him. We wish you the best,
KB

 

[drinks]

Blair;
We would be overjoyed to let you have Schwinestein, our little nazi jew lady and her running buddies, but that would be an unneighborly thing to do to you,as you have plenty of your own.
Could we interest you in some Irish, we have a surplus of Kennedys on hand.
I have done some research on Scotland and the best I could find out, Houston is from "Hugh's Town", and was a Norse settlement in Scotland.
Two bunches of my family came from Scotland, A Maitland, second son of the 5th Duke of Lauderdale, with his wife, a Sutherland -Gordon after taking an anti English position in 1714, and before that, A John Looney, also anti English, but 1645 time period, however, both families were invaders from Normandy, along with William the Bastard, William I of England.
Things are getting worse in UK, OZ, where they are banning swords and SA, where the government is moving swiftly to do away with all guns, the only odd thing is, they are basicly allowing muzzle loaders with out controls.
Oh well, I am sure they will correct that oversight soon.

 

[Blair]

Houston is from "Hugh's Town", and was a Norse settlement in Scotland.

That is true, it's also where my family name comes from.

I put up some of Oleg's work around campus. It seems an odd juxtaposition in a way. (Oleg's photos sharing "activism space" with Socialist Worker propaganda posters) I just realised that in all this excitement, I forgot to ask Oleg for permission to use the images...grrrr! I'm sure he'll approve anyways.

When I graduate from Law School I should be able to obtain a firearms certificate (unless the police decide against issuing once again). With this I will buy the most un-PC rifle I can buy! I reckon some kind of .50 cal bolt action is in order! (semi-auto being illegal here, I can't get a Barett M82)

 

[sterling180]

It all depends on the country and area you live in,inside of the UK

Quote, from Blair:

"I was turned down on the grounds that I'm a law student, and as such might be subject to stressful conditions. Furthermore, the police claim that I don't "need" a gun."

My Quote: "A totally and utterley frigging appauling thing to say to a law-student-a person studying for a legitamate career."

In kent where I live, the police are far more liberal about gun-ownership here and I have had no problems with the licensing authorities so far, because in my area-Northwest Kent-the Police haven't had psychopaths going around and killing people with guns,-well not yet anyway.

I don't know about the rest of the County of Kent,but Kent County Constabulary seems like a pretty nice police force to me.It is possible that you were turned down because of that psycho-Thomas Hamilton's rampage in Dunblane Primary School in 1996 and the cops wanted or were determined to descourage gun-ownership, because they fear another one might occur again in the near future-using legally-held firearms.

Talk to your local Conservative MP-if you haven't already done so-and ask he or she to challenge the police force in question.

By the way out of curiosity,what police force was this, that refused your application for a firearm license?

 

[sterling180]

Also other things that I must identify to you

Another quote from Blair:

"When I turned 18 I applied for a firearms certificate. I had my interview with the police and all the rest of it. I was turned down on the grounds that I'm a law student, and as such might be subject to stressful conditions. Furthermore, the police claim that I don't "need" a gun."

Firstly every citizen has a right in the UK to apply for a gun license in the UK, even thought there are no constitutional rights, for gun-owners.Secondly who the bloody hell are they to tell you what conditions you could be subjected to-interms of your chosen further-education course?

Thirdly the claim that:" you don't "need" a gun."is totally bloody absurd.Join the UK Sportsmans Association,the UK NRA organization and the BASC and please tell them about this so that they-combined with the Tory MP-can fight for your rights on even-ground.

What part of Scotland are you from,anyway?

 

[Boom-stick]

Things are tough here for anyone that likes things that go 'bang', but I can see some improvements coming now we've won the 2012 bid.
I'm in south london and my FLO isn't to bad, still a bit mis-guided with what different calibres should be used for though?
I've been shooting on & off for 17 years have seen many changes (all bad ones!!) and have used up nearly every loop hole I could find, like Blair, I've gone for the most un-pc firearms I could get and the looks I get are great, even from other gun owners

For those of our brothers in arms across the pond that are reading this, you probably don't know how hard your govermnet has now made it for genuine UK citizens to migrate over, unless your family originate from another country or you can start a business over there it's a no go zone. I got a job in '97 working as a riflery instructor in North Carolina and they would only give me a visa for a year?

Look at the card lottery website and see what countries are not allowed to apply, I think you may be in for a surprise.
http://www.green-card-lottery.org/requirements.html

Dan

 

[LAK]

I had my interview with the police and all the rest of it. I was turned down on the grounds that I'm a law student, and as such might be subject to stressful conditions

Interesting. I would have asked them;

"Who would be more likely to be subject to the most stressful conditions: a) A law student or lawyer b) An armed policeman?"

------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://suntedstates.org

 

[iapetus]

Look at the card lottery website and see what countries are not allowed to apply, I think you may be in for a surprise.
http://www.green-card-lottery.org/requirements.html

For DV-2007 natives of the following countries are INELIGIBLE:
...United Kingdom (except Northern Ireland) and its dependent territories

Now that's just weird. That's like the UK running a similar scheme, and excluding people from "USA (except Iowa*)".


* State chosen randomly as an example.