Hp38 barrel fouling 45 acp

[Walkalong]

In my experience, “clean” is a relative term, not an absolute.

Like shiny and no crud.

 

[unwashed]

The before doesn’t look all that terrible to me. I don’t know why it’s being so stubborn to remove though. Genuinely puzzling. I’m an old guy who still uses Hoppe’s No.9, bronze brushes, and old cut up T-shirts for patches on a loop for cleaning so it takes me all of about five minutes to clean a 1911A1 - but I’m not going for a mirror polish either. If you ran a fiber patch soaked with Sweet’s down my barrel right now it would probably come out gray. Don’t care. Shoots the same whether it’s factory shiny or lazy old man gray. I assured myself of that back in the last century.
I hope you figure it out since this is vexing and you say it is effecting accuracy.

No, your not the only old guy. I still use hoppe's No.9 and with bronze and/or brass brushes attached to a drill. A couple of passes with that and I call it day.

 

[Big-bore-bob]

Hello if anyone is still interested I took my standard hp38 load to the range today using winchester 230gr fmj and a fresh pound of powder, I fired 200 rounds and got the same sort of fouling I had with the rmr 230gr. I can rule out the bullet as the cause I think. I'm just going to switch powders to bullseye, or something else. Any suggestions on a good clean powder for 45 with a wide load range that will push 850fps safely? Thanks and happy shooting!

 

[CQB45ACP]

Hello if anyone is still interested I took my standard hp38 load to the range today using winchester 230gr fmj and a fresh pound of powder, I fired 200 rounds and got the same sort of fouling I had with the rmr 230gr. I can rule out the bullet as the cause I think. I'm just going to switch powders to bullseye, or something else. Any suggestions on a good clean powder for 45 with a wide load range that will push 850fps safely? Thanks and happy shooting!

Bad luck—that was at 5.5grs? Can’t go wrong with Bullseye but I would’ve said the same for hp38

Better luck next time.

 

[LiveLife]

HK USP/Sig 1911 ... fouling in the first 1/3 of the barrel ... could heat and incomplete combustion of powder cause the fouling to bake into the lands of the rifling? Perhaps a stronger crimp on the bullet will cause a more efficient burn leading to less fouling? Anyone have this issue? Is this sort of fouling an issue?

View attachment 1161876

Late to the party ... figured problem was already addressed and you were celebrating with your latest range report ... I guess not.

FMJ bullets did that?

W-231/HP-38 and jacketed bullets leave my 1911 bores shiny and clean

Same for me as well and in my case railed Sig 1911 XO and M&P45

I have experienced similar fouling and the fouling you are seeing is likely from hot gas blow-by around the bullet from insufficient pressure build/inefficient powder burn and case mouth/neck not sealing sufficiently with the chamber.

HK USP/Sig 1911 ... rmr 230 gr ... 1.26 coal ... 5.5 gr hp38 ... Cfe pistol is dirty for me at 6.5 gr

You are using longer 1.260" OAL (Not seating bullet base as deep) and should be referencing Speer load data that uses 1.260".

Hodgdon load data - https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center

• 45ACP 230 gr Hornady FMJ FP HP-38 COL 1.200" Start 4.2 gr (751 fps) - Max 5.3 gr (832 fps)
• 45ACP 230 gr Hornady FMJ FP CFE Pistol COL 1.200" Start 6.0 gr (815 fps) - Max 6.8 gr (934 fps)

Speer load data - https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/handgun/45_Automatic_230_TMJ_RN.pdf

• 45ACP 230 gr Speer TMJ RN W231 COL 1.260" Start 5.6 gr (833 fps) - Max 6.2 gr (903 fps)
• 45ACP 230 gr Speer TMJ RN CFE Pistol COL 1.260" Start 6.0 gr (793 fps) - Max 7.5 gr (973 fps)

So at 5.5 gr of HP-38 (Same powder as W231) and 1.260" OAL, you are essentially below start charge and insufficient pressure is likely not blowing out case mouth/neck to seal with the chamber and further aggravating inefficient powder burn and subsequent hot gas blow by is producing fouling build up past the bullet.

Increasing the powder charge should improve efficiency of powder burn and build more consistent chamber pressures to decrease fouling build up. As to CFE Pistol, while it can produce accuracy at mid-range load data, 45ACP is low pressure cartridge and can benefit from higher pressures produced by high-to-near max load data.

I'll pull some bullets and check my crimp, its not too much i think but i dont know much about reloading yet.

This is a picture of that wwb 45 acp bullet i pulled.View attachment 1161928

Factory rounds are often crimped hard to resist bullet setback during hard feeding/chambering from the magazine and deform/damage bullets (They also don't always produce accuracy of reloads either).

Contrary to what you may think, increasing taper crimp won't necessarily increase neck tension as most of neck tension comes from friction with resized case neck "tensioning" around the bullet. Amount of neck tension increase from increasing taper crimp is very small and you may actually decrease neck tension by deforming bullet as brass spring back but lead doesn't.

Since case wall thickness around case mouth is around .011", I usually add .022" to the diameter of the bullet to determine my taper crimp amount. So for .451" sized bullet, .473" taper crimp will return the flare back flat on the bullet.

If your barrel has tight chamber, you may need to apply more taper crimp around .470" but even my railed Sig 1911 XO that had tightest chamber I have seen readily chambered rounds with .473" taper crimp.

today using winchester 230gr fmj and a fresh pound of powder, I fired 200 rounds and got the same sort of fouling I had with the rmr 230gr. I can rule out the bullet as the cause I think.

I'm just going to switch powders to bullseye, or something else.

So you confirmed low powder charge is likely the cause.

While faster burning Bullseye at lower charges can expand the case mouth/neck better to seal with the chamber and build pressure to address the fouling problem you are experiencing (Why Bullseye powder "downloads" well below published start charge), I think you should try increasing your powder charge, especially HP-38, before switching powders.

 

[Blue68f100]

You need to bump your charge up and/or shorten your OAL. I dought that a min charge of 231 gives you 850 fps.

I use WST for most all my 45acp loads. Burns clean even below min starting charge.

 

[LiveLife]

I dought that a min charge of 231 gives you 850 fps.

Agree ... Even Speer load data lists 833 fps for 5.6 gr of W231/HP-38 at 1.260" OAL.

• 45ACP 230 gr Speer TMJ RN W231 COL 1.260" Start 5.6 gr (833 fps) - Max 6.2 gr (903 fps)

 

[Big-bore-bob]

Thanks all! Livelife's post makes a lot of sense, thanks for the write up, I really appreciate it. Increase powder charge is what I'll do. It may take a week but I'll post back results with a higher charge weight. I'll buy the Speer manual also. I have hornady, nosler, and lyman. Apologies for dragging this thread out so long, I do really appreciate the help. Thanks

 

[Big-bore-bob]

To anyone who is still interested... I finally got out to the range with a 5.6 grain load of hp38, rmr 230gr fmj, rem 2.5 primer, starline brass, coal 1.26-1.262 the fouling was the same as before and felt recoil increased. Avg vel 821, SD 15, HI of 842, LO of 795, I feel like upping the charge will only increase the recoil and I plan on loading for USPSA competition and high volume target work, so this simply won't work. I picked up some Bullseye and loaded a 5.0gr charge with the same cartridge specs and dimensions listed above, i fired 150 rounds in a clean HK USP EXPERT, bullseye was much cleaner than hp38 in my gun, some barrel fouling but half as much as hp38, and more consistent too, chrono'd 30 rounds, Avg vel 815, SD of 9, ES 35, HI of 833, LO of 798. Based on suggestions and data I think I can safely increase charge weights on both bullseye and hp38 loads to help get a cleaner burn, however, lower recoil, less fouling and consistency are what I think I need for my purposes and Bullseye won the battle. Bullseye is just as accurate too, the picture is a 25 meter group from a shifty plastic pistol rest on a windy day. Happy shooting!