HS 6

[CB900F]

Fella's;

I'm gonna try some HS6 loads in my pistol. I'm told that 15 or 16 grains should produce an accurate and rather mild load under the 425 grain bullets. Something around 1150 fps from the 6" barrel. Since it's a ball powder, I'll be using magnum primers, but haven't decided which. Anybody got an opinion on this?

900F

 

[Walkalong]

.45 Colt?? .500???

 

[CZ57]

WA: HS-6, first off, that WSF you're so fond of, and rightly so, they're from the same base chemistry. HS-6 is the 9mm velocity powder all other's are judged by, unless you've played with Blue Dot and compressed loads. Pressure is not an issue, and the IPSC boys do push it. 1435 FPS is what it takes to get a 115 gr. bullet to 165 PF.

Listen children, best know what you're doin' here. These loads are typically loaded for 1911s with long throats and long OACLs. But, from the SPEER #11, back before the days of Bill Clinton and incompetent engineers/ballisticians/ambulance chasers, the load was a 115 gr. SPEER JHP with a max charge of 8.2 grs. of HS-6. The load chronographed 1300 + FPS from their Beretta 92. IPSC shooters go a bit higher. If you feel maxed out at 1200 FPS with a 115 gr. JHP, maybe 12 gauge field loads are the answer, but if you feel that kinetic energy was worthy of Einsteins theory, well, it does tend to balance the playing field.

Gun rags have got the majority of their ad. $ for many years, from custom 1911 makers. The old 9mm vs. .45 ACP debate was about like a 9 game world series with the Chicago BlackSox. The fix was in, so forgetabouitit. The OACL of the SPEER load was under 1.100". I don't load JHPs shorter than 1.122"/28.5mm. In Sigs and Glocks, I load to 1.142"/ 29mm.

If you're inclined, work up slowly, 8.2 grs. is under 35,700 CUP/38,500 PSI (+P). I hate to lay this on you, but WSF will do all of the same with a lower charge. But hey, HS-6 is worth trying!

 

[CB900F]

Walkalong;

It's a .480 Ruger on steroids.

900F

 

[Walkalong]

Aghh.

 

[Clark]

Hodgdon HS-6 = Winchester W540= Ramshot True Blue

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

And Clark too.

The loads I got from the little ole Montana school marm were right up there in Clark's interest zone. She noted to me that her fav load was 21.8 grains of Ramshot Enforcer behind the 425 grain cast bullet. She was getting, according to her, 1245 fps with an S/D of 2! However, this ole gal has wrists more like that of a young ox. Mine, are somewhat less robust. Then again, I don't have to ride herd on a pack of Montana ranch brats 39 miles from back-up.

I'm going to work up carefully.

Wimpy me, 900F

 

[Walkalong]

Hodgdon HS-6 = Winchester W540= Ramshot True Blue

I have never seen any W540, but I have some HS6 and some True Blue and they are totally different sizes. True Blue is teeny tiny little balls( have to use a magnifier to see they are little balls) while HS6 is about average size for ball powders.
Where does your info on them come from?

 

[CZ57]

540 is the Win. equivelant to HS-6. The Hodgdon website will tell you this. Both are made by Primex.

Ramshot True Blue is manufactured in Belgium, and since you've noticed the vast difference in grain size, WA, you're right. They are no where near the same powder.

 

[Werewolf]

I've tried HS-6 in .45ACP in some regular and some +P loads. The +P load pushed a 230gr FMJ out of a full sized 1911 at a chronied speed of 1010 FPS mean with a range of 40 FPS, Sig P220 at 955 and Kimber Ultra Tac 2 at 900. That was a hard hitting and hard recoiling load. I examined every empty case for signs of overpressure and except for some minor primer flattening (which I've seen in factory loads only pushing at 830 FPS and I believe primarily due to using WLP which are a bit on the soft side) saw no other indications of an unsafe charge.

I found the +P load in an older Hodgdon manual. Nothing currently published that I've seen comes anywhere near that heavy a load so I don't and haven't since built any 45ACP using HS-6 and that +P charge. It's not a comfortable load to shoot and it's way too strong to use as an IPSC load (though I did use it once at an IPSC match - the checkering on the backstrap of the pistol became one with the meaty part of my right hand by the thumb for about a week - I won't be doing that again).

That said - HS-6 proved to be a very accurate load with no FTF's or FTE's in either my full size 1911, my Kimber Ultra Tac 2 or my SIG P220.

For some reason though downloading to currently published charge weights of HS-6 was less accurate and I got the occassional FTE/stovepipe in my Kimber with it. So I pretty much stick with AA#5 for .45ACP out of my full size 1911 and Kimber and HP-38 for the Sig.

I've also used HS-6 in .44Mag loads. It worked OK but after trying AA#7 prefer that to HS-6.

I may try HS-6 in .40 S&W soon. My gut tells me though that AA#7 will work better.

 

[CZ57]

WW: That's kind of the reality. HS-6 with 230 gr. bullets knows few rivals. But ultimately, when you exceed what game players feel comfortable with, you're on your on. That is the type of load that I would be testing one of the better recoil reduction systems with. Years ago, Springfield had the Omega, the system metriculated to H&K in their USP. The Ruger P-345 will handle loads like this better than anything I've ever fired. HS-6 will do the same thing in 9mm. The .40 S&W is a different animal. You really can't crowd the pressure max. The quest is to find the powder that is absolutely optimum in burn rate. I've tried a bunch. Stopped shooting .40 in 1998. Bought an XD TAC a couple of years ago and it almost got me there, but not quite. Sold it. The last resort for the .40, and an ace in the hole kind of thing, was the CZ 75 B in .40 S&W. Nothing I've ever shot will rival it, and I think I've owned them all. Any design prior to 1998, anyway. Hands down, the best powder I've used is Ramshot True Blue. It will make a broke in $400 pistol shoot with and embarass guys that felt a need to spend $2500 on a custom 1911. I kid you not! Even though we send our best athletes to OU!

 

[Werewolf]

The last resort for the .40, and an ace in the hole kind of thing, was the CZ 75 B in .40 S&W.

+1 on THAT! My CZ-75B SA in .40S&W is the best .40 I've ever had and imagine will have. I like it better than my Sig P226 and the Glock 22 I had ain't even in the same league for accuracy and felt recoil.

I really like my CZ-75's. And most of my IPSC shooting lately is done with the .40S&W one.

 

[CZ57]

WW: Try some True Blue. Work up to 8.1 grains with the Nosler 150 gr. JHP @ 1.125", or 5.9 - 6.6 grains of True Blue with the 170 gr. LaserCast SWC @ 1.130". Somewhere along the way your CZ 75 will put 5 rested rounds into a single hole at 50' with either bullet!

 

[Werewolf]

CZ57:
Thanks for the tip; but believe it or not here in Oklahoma City, a gun friendly metro of over a million souls smokeless powder of any kind is not that easy to come by. A couple of years ago the big local supplier went teats up and it is just now that another gun store here is trying to fill the void. He doesn't carry Ramshot. And the hazmat fees for mailorder just raise the cost to too much per pound for me to do it that way because I only use 5 to 8 lbs a year.

Recently another supplier stopped selling powder because the local firechief has a hard on for gun stores that do that and is using some little known city reg to force anyone that sells the stuff to put in some really expensive fire control systems and the guys just can't afford it.

To buy retail one must drive to El Reno or be happy with the minimal selection currently available so for at least the forseeable future ramshot isn't gonna be on my list of powders.

 

[CZ57]

WW: I feel your pain! My #2 powder is also Ramshot . . . Silhouette. Based on similar chemistry as HS-6, but a little more flexible for .40 S&W. If I were faced with your situation, I'd take a hard look at WSF. It established itself early on as an exceptional .40 S&W powder. Not that HS-6 won't get it done, but for some reason the geometry of the case limits it somewhat. But, you should still be able to approach factory load velocity, or find a load that will get you 165 with a bit of cushion. WSF is capable of excellent accuracy and velocity above factory level if you need it. BTW, if you ever run across some True Blue, the best charge for the LC 170 gr. SWC has been 6.4 grains for me.