Huge LASD 870 Purchase

[Dave Williams]

"Press Release FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE


Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department Selects Remington® Model 870™ Pump Action Shotguns

MADISON, N.C., May 21, 2008 – Remington Arms Company, Inc., announced today it has been awarded a contract to provide the largest sheriff’s agency in the World – the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department – with 4,200 new shotguns. All shotguns within the contract are based upon the proven Model 870 platform, which addresses a number of law enforcement applications.

While meeting all technical requirements outlined by the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department, Remington will supply 3,000 customized Model 870 pump shotguns to be utilized by county patrol deputies, 900 less-than-lethal shotguns, and 300 newly configured shotguns to meet the unique and demanding requirements of their motorcycle units.

“We are honored to be selected by such a prestigious organization as LASD to supply an array of application specific solutions based upon the most reliable shotgun platform today  our Model 870,” stated E. Scott Blackwell, Remington’s President of Global Sales, Marketing and Product Development. “The opportunity to develop and deliver in a timely manner three shotgun configurations essential to the specific needs of the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department is something Remington is proud of.”

“Our entire law enforcement business development team focuses on truly listening to customer needs and providing solutions to help them meet the grueling demands of an officer’s role on a daily basis,” added Mike Chamberlain, Remington’s Vice President of Law Enforcement. “Partnering with All State Police Equipment Company of Los Angeles, Remington anticipates delivery to begin June, 2008.”

Since its introduction in 1950, nearly 10 million Model 870 shotguns have been produced. It remains the overwhelming choice for law enforcement divisions due to its historical dependability. Through numerous configurations and variants, the Model 870 platform is used for law enforcement, military applications and sporting purposes in more than 50 countries including the United States.

About Remington Arms Company, Inc.
Remington Arms Company, Inc., headquartered in Madison, NC, designs, produces and sells sporting goods products for the hunting and shooting sports markets under a family of famous brands including Remington, Marlin, Harrington & Richardson (H&R), New England Firearms, L.C. Smith and Parker as well as solutions to the military, government and law enforcement markets. Founded in 1816 in upstate New York, the Company is one of the nation’s oldest continuously operating manufacturers. Remington is the only U.S. manufacturer of both firearms and ammunition products and is the largest domestic producer of shotguns and rifles. The Company distributes its products throughout the U.S. and in over 55 foreign countries. More information about the Company can be found at www.remington.com."


I would be interested to know the specs on these shotguns/duty load selection. Anybody know the details?

Dave Williams

 

[MAKster]

It's interesting that they describe them as customized 870s. I wonder if they are based on the 870P model or one of the lower priced versions?

 

[Black_Talon]

Has anyone heard what LASD is going to do with all the Ithaca M37's that are being replaced?

 

[Dave Williams]

Just checking out Mesa Tactical's site (http://www.mesatactical.com/) and saw this:

"Major law enforcement agencies specify Mesa Tactical products.
The FBI, following intensive testing, specifies Mesa Tactical products as part of a program aimed at upgrading the agency’s existing arsenal of Remington 870 tactical shotguns. The initial purchase order includes Mesa Tactical’s Low-tube Recoil Stock Kits and SureShell Four-Shot Shell Carriers.

In addition, the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department specified Mesa Tactical’s SureShell Four-Shot Shell Carriers and Magazine Cap Sling Hook Loops for use on 3000 new Remington 870’s purchased for patrol applications.

Watch this website for additional information concerning the FBI’s and LASD’s upgrade programs, as well as news about similar programs in other agencies, which have also specified Mesa Tactical products in programs intended to improve popular tactical shotguns.

Posted: May 28 2008"

Man is Mesa on the map now or what? I remember being a little skeptical of their stuff until I read Awerbuck's very positive review of their telescoping stock system in SWAT Magazine.

Dave Williams

 

[rbernie]

Interesting that the source selection didn't seem to favor a semi-auto, despite the oft-cited Internet issues with folk short-stroking a pump under stress....

 

[freakshow10mm]

Remington is the only U.S. manufacturer of both firearms and ammunition products

What about me?

 

[San Francisquito Bill]

Nice!

I'm intrigued by the Mesa Tactical Shotshell carrier. I was told the guns would have a Knoxx Stock with shell carrier and assumed it was the Knoxx Powerpack system, which concerned me if the guns have a bead sight. I've heard some people complain about the cheek weld being too high for a bead with the powerpack shell-holder.

I haven't seen any of the guns yet, and the word is that when we get them and they filter to patrol, we'll have to go through our CPT course before we can carry the new one. Since I just did the CPT course in April, I will likely be one of the last to take the course. I'm gonna talk to some of the range guys I know and see if there is any way for a "motivated" guy to speed the process. We'll see.

I have no idea what the department will do with the 37's and I'm not thinking positive thoughts about it. I'd love to buy one!

I'll put out more info as soon as I know. I first heard about the switch last year when the department began testing shotguns (though not as many models as I would have hoped...maybe they tested others and only let us "regular folks" participate in testing the final two candidates...) and first heard about the "final" specs in March. At that time they said they'd be getting the first shipment in June, but who knows with the way the dept/industry goes.

 

[Hoppy590]

eh, good for remington, but the LASD, LAPD, or LA boyscouts are hardly a gleaming endorsement in the world of firearms

though id still buy one of their old Ithaca's. serve a better purpose in my hands anyway

 

[San Francisquito Bill]

Good lord! I've been a member here for over 5 years and have a total of 7 posts (now 8...)!!!!

Talk about a "Lurker"!

 

[San Francisquito Bill]

Wow...That was somewhat negative...Why are LA agencies so less "gleaming" than any other agency?

 

[Dave Williams]

Bill,

Thanks for the information.

Stay safe!

Dave

 

[Moonclip]

Not surprising, I've been seeing old Ithaca 37's in LASD patrol cars for years, I figured it would be only a matter of time before replacement.

I have a feeling they will be destroyed or they will be sold to some distributor out of state, doesn't CA have some sort of rule that PD's can't sell off their surplus or confiscated firearms anymore?

 

[San Francisquito Bill]

I dont' think there's any law prohibiting the sale of Ex-LE guns, but what the dept. chooses to do is another (and much less hopeful) matter.


I talked to one of my Sgt.'s today. He's a gun-guy and former range staff. He says the shotguns will come with rifle sights. That's the only new info he had.

 

[EOTechRulesAll]

When are they scheduled to get the new guns and about how long after that will it be before they announce what they're doing with the old guns?

Anybody taking bets on whether they sell them or destroy them?

 

[sm]

Dave Williams,
Thank you for this thread, and subsequent input.
I have always paid attention to you and your contributions here on THR.


San Francisquito Bill,
Thank you for your input sir!
Please keep us informed if you find out more information.


Re:Why pumps?

My gut says departments are not wanting to re-invent the wheel.
Pumps are not as dependent on ammo, and malfunction drills "can" be a bit easier.

Ammo has improved over the years, that said, I am not 100% happy with many of the new loadings, and a pump will run it, and be able to deal with problems.

I still think a Ithaca 37 with Winchester Western 2 3/4" , nine pellet 00 buck is hard to beat, or Winchester Western 2 3/4" slugs.


Steve

 

[Moonclip]

I like the Ithaca 37 as well, I wonder why they are being replaced? Are they that old and worn out if that is even possible. Do LASD Ithacas have the slamfire feature?

I sort of remember years ago KCAL channel 9 did some big investigative report on CA dept of Corrections selling off surplus guns or maybe it was CHP and the practice got modified in some way.

I saw an ex CHP 870 for sale recently. Ex CHP Mod 68 S&W revolvers and 870's are overstamped OHB when sold.

I wonder how prevalent Ithaca 37 use is with LAPD these days?

 

[jakemccoy]

Interesting that the source selection didn't seem to favor a semi-auto, despite the oft-cited Internet issues with folk short-stroking a pump under stress....

Is the stress coupled with lack of training?

I can't imagine a person who regularly trains with a pump short-stroking.

 

[Big Sarge]

Unfortunately, many large agencies destroy their surplus firearms now days due to possible lawsuits from misuse

 

[San Francisquito Bill]

I like the Ithaca 37 as well, I wonder why they are being replaced? Are they that old and worn out if that is even possible. Do LASD Ithacas have the slamfire feature?

The 37's are pretty worn. Some are in very good condition, and even the worn ones still work, but as any mechanical device gets used, there are parts that break. That breakage is (in my perception) becomming more frequent and takes some of our trust in the weapon away.

I've experienced weapon malfunctions due to worn/broken guns, many of the guns beads are/were broken, sights get knocked off, rear sights come loose and/or fall off, forks break, extractors break, etc. These issues can be fixed, but who knows when another issue will rear its ugly head.

These are OLD guns. Many of them have 5 digit serial numbers and a large number have the slamfire feature. When LAPD went to the 870, LASD bought all their 37's, and many of our guns are marked with "Los Angeles Police Dept."

I really like the Ithaca 37, and would buy one in a flat second if the dept. would sell one to me. I've had my eye out for one just out of nostalgia, but I'd use it with no hesitation. The biggest advantage we will have in deploying the new 870's is that they will be new guns and wear-related issues will be minimized.

Also, it will take a LONG time to transition the entire department to the 870. Unless I can somehow weasle into the shotgun class, I'll probably be close to last in being transitioned since I already took our Continuation of Patrol Training course, just prior to the deployment of the new gun. Therefore, I'll be carrying the 37 for a while.

 

[Roccobro]

When San Diego SO went to Glocks a few years ago, all the old wheelguns were shipped to an out of state dealer. None of the officers were allowed to buy one from what I was told.

Justin

 

[scrat]

Good lord! I've been a member here for over 5 years and have a total of 7 posts (now 8...)!!!!

Talk about a "Lurker"!

well im over 3000 strong. i know someone in lasd. so i dont want to say anything else. but i will do some poking around. thats all for now. may have to delete this or modify it. later on. if i can get some info. please no one copy this.

 

[Black_Talon]

I like the Ithaca 37 as well, I wonder why they are being replaced? Are they that old and worn out if that is even possible. Do LASD Ithacas have the slamfire feature??

They're in pretty sad shape. As a big-time M37 nut, and an LA County resident, I get plenty of opportunities to check out M37's in the squad cars. They are really thrashed. The majority of the bead-sighted versions have no beads and a lot of the rifle-sighted versions are missing their front or rear sights. Stocks look like they've been put through wood chippers, and the bluing is long gone. Almost all of them are earlier than mid-1970's manufacture, which means that most are slam-fire-able.

I wonder how prevalent Ithaca 37 use is with LAPD these days?

LAPD has been using 870s for a while now, and a large percentage of their M37's were donated to LASD to be used for spares or whatever.

 

[Dave Williams]

So it looks like.....18" rifle sighted barrel(I would imagine improved cylinder since that is what Remington has standardized on it seems), Knoxx stock, 4rd mag tube, Mesa Sidesaddle, Mesa mag cap sling loop, bungee 2 point sling. Maybe Surefire forends. Great setup, nice versatility with the adjustable stock for various sized Officers, and the rifle sights and slug availability give you some stand off room in the even of a rifle armed bad guy/active shooter.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the fact that alot of money was spent on the "obsolete" Police shotgun as opposed to sinking the money into Patrol Rifles.

I know at least one large State Academy Instructor with impeccable credentials thinks that American Law Enforcement had the tool it needed all along, the 12ga shotgun with slug availability and some proper training, and didn't/doesn't need the Patrol Rifle.

Dave Williams

 

[Dionysusigma]

^^^ Something about what someone once posted about ".73 caliber carbines."

freakshow10mm:

Remington is the only U.S. manufacturer of both firearms and ammunition products

What about me?

Didn't see any in-house firearms on your website, nor ammo...

 

[San Francisquito Bill]

Word came in this week that we should be receiving our first 17 870's here at the station within the next month.

Apparently all new recruits are being trained/certified on the 870s, but there has been no information on when/how patrol Deputies will be trained and certified. Therefore we may get the guns and have few if any deputies able to deploy with them. While that would in no way surprise me, I think they have some sort of in-service familiarity certification training in mind...I'll come in on another shift or my day off if I have to to get the certification.

While I'm excited over the new guns, There are a couple things I wish the decision-makers did/would do...

1. I would like to see 14" barrels or, barring that, a program where certain patrol deputies could be certified in "Entry gun" training and be allowed to install short barrels or deploy short barreled shotguns. The shorter barrel combined with the collapsable stock would make the new shotguns a much more viable entry/search guns.

2. I still wish they'd let us purchase our own shotguns, even if they were required to be identical to the issued guns. I'd like to be able to sight in "MY" gun and know that it was to my specs, not knocked out of whack, etc....

My partner went to the range the other day and was able to handle one of the new shotguns. He was VERY impressed and is excited. We both have some "connections" and will exploit them if we have to...

Well, that's the "breaking news" so far...