Roccobro
Member
Thanks for the update Bill.
Justin
Justin
Huge LASD 870 Purchase
- Thread starter Dave Williams
- Start date
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Off Topic Response to the LAPD and LASD Bashers:
For all the negative things said about the LAPD and LASD, they have had a history of doing things overwhelmingly right most of the time. Like any organizations as large as they are, there are and there have been bad apples. If you'd care to read, the books that have been written on the Hat Squad are fascinating. Webb's book is a classic, and the books covering the Gates days are also well worth the effort to read.
On the fictional side, James Ellroy's LA Cycle is fanatastic.
For all the negative things said about the LAPD and LASD, they have had a history of doing things overwhelmingly right most of the time. Like any organizations as large as they are, there are and there have been bad apples. If you'd care to read, the books that have been written on the Hat Squad are fascinating. Webb's book is a classic, and the books covering the Gates days are also well worth the effort to read.
On the fictional side, James Ellroy's LA Cycle is fanatastic.
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
Bill, thanks for the update.
I've mixed feelings about 14" barrels in cruisers. While easier to deploy, the increased blast and flash are going to be hard to overcome.
I've mixed feelings about 14" barrels in cruisers. While easier to deploy, the increased blast and flash are going to be hard to overcome.
Dave Williams
Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2002
- Messages
- 377
Bill, thanks for the update.
Re making the guns viable entry/search guns, here are some options for working with what you have:
1. Utilize the "Indoor Ready" position while searching. Here is a description for a right hand shooter from Michael Rayburn, "You will have the buttstock tucked into your shoulder while you are in your combat crouch.....bring the barrel of the gun across your body over to your off side leg. The back of your (left) hand should come to a rest on top of your (left) thigh. Lock it in place there, so when your off side foot goes forward, so does the barrel of the gun. In this position the barrel of the gun will be pointed off to the side of your left foot". Rayburn also describes a variation where you simply keep the gun on the centerline of your body with the barrel pointed 12inches in front of your feet, and you keep it there as you move. It's very quick to bring the shotgun up for a snap shot from these searching positions. Note I am currently reading a book by Louis Awerbuck and he evidently teaches the off to the side indoor ready(he probably came up with it) advocated by Rayburn.
2. Utilize the CQB position advocated by Rob Haught. In it you bring the buttsock up and over your right shoulder. You rotate the gun to that the ejection port is facing up. You maintain somewhat of a firing grip on the shotgun(this is actually easier with a PG stock so you're in luck since your new 870s have them). I've attached a few pics I found online at 10-8 Forums, which is a great place to learn about all things tactical. In pic one the guy with the blue shirt is showing the basic position. In pic two Rob Haught is showing how short the position makes the gun.
Dave Williams
Re making the guns viable entry/search guns, here are some options for working with what you have:
1. Utilize the "Indoor Ready" position while searching. Here is a description for a right hand shooter from Michael Rayburn, "You will have the buttstock tucked into your shoulder while you are in your combat crouch.....bring the barrel of the gun across your body over to your off side leg. The back of your (left) hand should come to a rest on top of your (left) thigh. Lock it in place there, so when your off side foot goes forward, so does the barrel of the gun. In this position the barrel of the gun will be pointed off to the side of your left foot". Rayburn also describes a variation where you simply keep the gun on the centerline of your body with the barrel pointed 12inches in front of your feet, and you keep it there as you move. It's very quick to bring the shotgun up for a snap shot from these searching positions. Note I am currently reading a book by Louis Awerbuck and he evidently teaches the off to the side indoor ready(he probably came up with it) advocated by Rayburn.
2. Utilize the CQB position advocated by Rob Haught. In it you bring the buttsock up and over your right shoulder. You rotate the gun to that the ejection port is facing up. You maintain somewhat of a firing grip on the shotgun(this is actually easier with a PG stock so you're in luck since your new 870s have them). I've attached a few pics I found online at 10-8 Forums, which is a great place to learn about all things tactical. In pic one the guy with the blue shirt is showing the basic position. In pic two Rob Haught is showing how short the position makes the gun.
Dave Williams
Attachments
San Francisquito Bill
Member
Thanks for the replies...I actually use the Rob Haught technique (or at least as far as I can tell from pictures...I've never had training from him...I know it's a push/pull thing) a lot. I used it last week to clear a vehicle and I find it to be an excellent tool with the shotgun...I need to play with it with my PG-stocked 870 to see how it feels with that rather than the standard stock.
So we were told in briefing that today we were supposed to send a bunch of Ithacas downtown to get 870 replacements, but we didn't have enough Ithacas to send down and still have enough to field. I think they ended up finding some that had been stored and I think they did end up sending them out...
Here's the fun part. No one is certified on the 870 and it won't even fit in the rack until the butt mount is changed. So now we have a bunch of 870's (I think) that no one can use, and a bunch less Ithacas. I hope they didn't send down all the good ones...The one I had today was...not so good.
I know they're trying to get everything deployed so that when people get trained the stuff is out there and ready to go, but I would think that they would send us the 870's first, then come out and train us so we can use them, then modify the cars so we can carry them, then take our old Ithacas. At least I may be able to see the new guns tomorrow, which should be cool...
So we were told in briefing that today we were supposed to send a bunch of Ithacas downtown to get 870 replacements, but we didn't have enough Ithacas to send down and still have enough to field. I think they ended up finding some that had been stored and I think they did end up sending them out...
Here's the fun part. No one is certified on the 870 and it won't even fit in the rack until the butt mount is changed. So now we have a bunch of 870's (I think) that no one can use, and a bunch less Ithacas. I hope they didn't send down all the good ones...The one I had today was...not so good.
I know they're trying to get everything deployed so that when people get trained the stuff is out there and ready to go, but I would think that they would send us the 870's first, then come out and train us so we can use them, then modify the cars so we can carry them, then take our old Ithacas. At least I may be able to see the new guns tomorrow, which should be cool...
MillCreek
Member
So I wonder how the motorcycle units shotgun will be configured.
San Francisquito Bill
Member
They have been using Ithacas with side-folders, so I figure that's probably going to be the only difference...They'll probably have the side-folders and maybe no sidesaddle. Maybe a shorter barrel but I doubt it...
We have 11 of the new guns in the armory (per an e-mail) but I left before they came back...Hopefully I can at least fondle one tomorrow...
We have 11 of the new guns in the armory (per an e-mail) but I left before they came back...Hopefully I can at least fondle one tomorrow...
Harley Quinn
Member
I'd be interested in one of the 37's myself. If anyone cares that is
Wow, 4,200 shotguns! Now that I see that number, I feel inferior about the small number of shotguns I have in my own small collection. 
I like my 870 Tactical just as it arrived. I figure if I can't stop a bad-guy with 7 shots of 12 gauge, the extra few rounds attached to the Knoxx stock won't help me much. Now, some of those cool reloading tubes I've seen in competitions are interesting.
That was a interesting bit of news. Thanks for posting it.
I like my 870 Tactical just as it arrived.
I figure if I can't stop a bad-guy with 7 shots of 12 gauge, the extra few rounds attached to the Knoxx stock won't help me much. Now, some of those cool reloading tubes I've seen in competitions are interesting.That was a interesting bit of news. Thanks for posting it.
Roccobro
Member
I saw a 14" tube on a bean bag 870 (in the jails) at work this morning. Looked kinda odd, as only the newest 14" 870's in our department are for patrol guns first!
Justin
Justin
scrat
Member
Fort Apache
Last edited:
San Francisquito Bill
Member
OK folks...Here's the scoop...
I saw the new toys today and I guess I'll simply say... WOOOOWWWHOOOO!
(OK, maybe a bit overdramatic but hear me out...)
So lets start with a basic description and move on to the just plain cool, then to the not-so-cool, and lastly, (If I can make it work) the pictures (I'll put them in a new post because I'll have to figure out where/how to host them, etc....
OK...The base gun is the 870 Police 3". Finish appears to be park'd (I was wondering if they'd base the guns on the cheaper express model. They did not). Barrel is indeed 18" and the tube is a standard 4rd capacity. The trigger guard is plastic like the current Police model.
So that's pretty much it for "standard". Starting from the muzzle and working back here are the specs/features:
XS Express Sights (Yup...I thought it was gonna be std. Rem adjustables...I really like the sights and they seem like they'll be much more durable.
Mesa Tactical Front Sling Swivel (More on this later)
SureFire LED Integrated Forend light
Mesa Tactical 4rd Sidesaddle
Knoxx SpecOps Recoil Reducing/Collapsable stock
Royal Arms Bungee sling
OK...So that's the rundown...but there's a bit more...Each shotgun is engraved (Pre-Park...a factory thing) with "Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department" on the right side of the receiver below the ejection port, and the serial numbers all begin with LASD00XXXX (however many numbers there are...)
So now the not-so-cool... First, I'm not yet certified. I should be able to rectify this by the end of September though. I was a bit wrong in that they've been running academies and patrol schools with the new 870 for a month or two, so there are at least a few deps certified as of now. I think there is going to be a big push to get people up to speed as quick as possible.
The not-so-cool thing about the gun that I found is the front sling swivel. It is designed so that the sling can move from the right to left side depending on who's carrying it. That's cool. The problem is that the sling seems to often want to sit in a position preventing the light protruding from the forend from moving forward. Now the dept. tested this gun pretty well, so maybe with some more practice/proper sling use, etc. it won't be an issue. (I was only able to handle the weapon for a few minutes, and can't really go all simulated tactical crazy in the armory without getting in some sort of hot water...)
OK...Now to see if I can make pictures work...See my next post for frustrated venting or (hopefully) pictures...
I saw the new toys today and I guess I'll simply say... WOOOOWWWHOOOO!
(OK, maybe a bit overdramatic but hear me out...)
So lets start with a basic description and move on to the just plain cool, then to the not-so-cool, and lastly, (If I can make it work) the pictures (I'll put them in a new post because I'll have to figure out where/how to host them, etc....
OK...The base gun is the 870 Police 3". Finish appears to be park'd (I was wondering if they'd base the guns on the cheaper express model. They did not). Barrel is indeed 18" and the tube is a standard 4rd capacity. The trigger guard is plastic like the current Police model.
So that's pretty much it for "standard". Starting from the muzzle and working back here are the specs/features:
XS Express Sights (Yup...I thought it was gonna be std. Rem adjustables...I really like the sights and they seem like they'll be much more durable.
Mesa Tactical Front Sling Swivel (More on this later)
SureFire LED Integrated Forend light
Mesa Tactical 4rd Sidesaddle
Knoxx SpecOps Recoil Reducing/Collapsable stock
Royal Arms Bungee sling
OK...So that's the rundown...but there's a bit more...Each shotgun is engraved (Pre-Park...a factory thing) with "Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department" on the right side of the receiver below the ejection port, and the serial numbers all begin with LASD00XXXX (however many numbers there are...)
So now the not-so-cool... First, I'm not yet certified. I should be able to rectify this by the end of September though. I was a bit wrong in that they've been running academies and patrol schools with the new 870 for a month or two, so there are at least a few deps certified as of now. I think there is going to be a big push to get people up to speed as quick as possible.
The not-so-cool thing about the gun that I found is the front sling swivel. It is designed so that the sling can move from the right to left side depending on who's carrying it. That's cool. The problem is that the sling seems to often want to sit in a position preventing the light protruding from the forend from moving forward. Now the dept. tested this gun pretty well, so maybe with some more practice/proper sling use, etc. it won't be an issue. (I was only able to handle the weapon for a few minutes, and can't really go all simulated tactical crazy in the armory without getting in some sort of hot water...)
OK...Now to see if I can make pictures work...See my next post for frustrated venting or (hopefully) pictures...
San Francisquito Bill
Member
OK...Here goes...
Dave Williams
Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2002
- Messages
- 377
Wow, those are some nice shotguns, Bill, thanks for taking the effort to post some pics.
That sight setup was originally for the DEA, IIRC from info at TPI, and it's a standard XS pistol rear sight placed in a base that's attached to the barrel just in front of the receiver, and then a big dot in a standard Remington rifle front base.
LED upgrade on the Surefire forends sure is nice for durability.
The Sheriff Department sure did a good job on this weapon purchase.
Dave Williams
That sight setup was originally for the DEA, IIRC from info at TPI, and it's a standard XS pistol rear sight placed in a base that's attached to the barrel just in front of the receiver, and then a big dot in a standard Remington rifle front base.
LED upgrade on the Surefire forends sure is nice for durability.
The Sheriff Department sure did a good job on this weapon purchase.
Dave Williams
Harley Quinn
Member
I am not sure what you are doing by showing the pic's and giving the run down on this purchase, and not be a certified deputy is a good idea. It is nice to see this, but I am thinking you need to stay covert big time.
Regards,
Regards,
scrat
Member
too cool So So nice
Gunsnrovers
Member
Why would any of this be secret squirrel?
Hopefully we'll see the Ithaca's come out soon. Be a neat match to my LAPD 37. A few years ago a bunch of Sacramento PD 870's hit the market. I cleaned one up and made it the house gun.
Harley Quinn
Member
Got to be one to understand the workings, that go on I guess
He can do what he wants, just giving good sound advise.jakemccoy
Member
It has to be said...
Those are nice guns to keep the LA cops well armed. An LA cop can be happy that good things are being done for their safety. I can't get excited until the sheriff starts issuing CCW permits for normal people. A little .38 in my pocket would cost the sheriff nothing and would be 1,000,000 times more efficient for my self-defense than those fancy 870's. They're just tools and not my tools.
Those are nice guns to keep the LA cops well armed. An LA cop can be happy that good things are being done for their safety. I can't get excited until the sheriff starts issuing CCW permits for normal people. A little .38 in my pocket would cost the sheriff nothing and would be 1,000,000 times more efficient for my self-defense than those fancy 870's. They're just tools and not my tools.
San Francisquito Bill
Member
Yes...Pictures of a tool that is going to be sitting in the public view of millions of people in thousands of radio cars...Must be a really big secret.... I guess all the magazines that post pictures of Kimber TLE's, SIS's, Springfield Professionals, RRA DEA models, Benelli M1014's, any AR15/M16/M4 variant, not to mention all the pictures here, must be harming department/national security?
Yea...Right. I'll worry.
Yea...Right. I'll worry.
Geronimo45
Member
Very nice stuff you've got there... but what's with that strange-lookin' sling?
Harley Quinn
Member
Well good luck with that one.
Regards,
San Francisquito Bill
Member
The sling itself is pretty much high-end bungee cord. It's actually pretty cool. It was originally designed and used for breacher shotguns, but works well for regular deployment. I think their website is royalarms.com...
Serpico
Member
I saw them for the first time in the West Hollywood armory today while I was running the mobile range...gorgeous guns...The slings adhere to the KISS principle...fling it over you head and let it hang down...now if we can just keep the Deps from borrowing the lights out of the forearms....
VINTAGE-SLOTCARS
member
San Francisquito Bill forgot to mention the receiver is made of steel, the damm shotgun is very front heavy fully loaded. It is hard to hold up on line for extended times, while covering the target and loading more ammo into the tube. The recoil absorbing stock is awsome with slugs,and heavy loads though. The combat course (cpt) was done in daylight and nite fire course.cant wait till the station gets them in too.
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