Hunter killed by Grizzly

[Patocazador]

Can we just drop all the PC crap? If someone wants to stereotype an effete tree hugger as a "latte type", let him. At least it shows some use of gray matter to come up with the term. instead of "Duh, yeah man."

It doesn't bother me to be called a honky, Bambi killer, shorty or any other term. Thicker skin is needed by everyone.

Meanwhile back at the ranch, the hunter had a perfect right to be there. He was licensed by the province, doing nothing wrong but fate was against him. Stuff happens.

 

[MCgunner]

Indeed, but then it must be coffee, not some watered down excuse for coffee. You should be able to use said coffee alternately to clean drains, strip paint and as an engine wash

Have you ever been to Louisiana?

Why the hate on handguns? Hell, I carry one every minute of every day and shoot one most days in practice. Now, the predators I practice for are the two legged kind, but hey, if a bear pounced on me and I had a magnum caliber revolver to blast him with, I'd sure rather that than rely on biting his ears or something. One can have a revolver with him in rough country when, sometimes, one must put the rifle down to perform some task. And, yeah, I have no experience with it, but bear spray is supposed to be pretty effective. Only thing about spray, wind can blow it back at you. It's my understanding that the bear spray cans shoot a stream that is more resistant to such, but I'd get a can or two if I were visiting Jelly Stone or something. Great choice where firearms are verboten and using spray keeps you out of trouble with the wildlife enforcement folks. Spraying a bear isn't near as much hassle as killing one out of season without the proper permits. Just ask Jungle Jack Hanna if bear spray works.

Now, I've never been to Canada and have no plans to, but if I ever do, I'll leave the handguns at home rather than to try to hassle with their idiotic laws.

 

[buck460XVR]

Can we just drop all the PC crap? If someone wants to stereotype an effete tree hugger as a "latte type", let him. At least it shows some use of gray matter to come up with the term. instead of "Duh, yeah man."

It doesn't bother me to be called a honky, Bambi killer, shorty or any other term. Thicker skin is needed by everyone.

Has nuttin' to do with the thickness of one's skin, or what is or is not politically correct, but showing some level of intelligence and maturity. Name calling is for third grade girls. I don't come here to play with third grade girls.

 

[MCgunner]

Has nuttin' to do with the thickness of one's skin, or what is or is not politically correct, but showing some level of intelligence and maturity. Name calling is for third grade girls. I don't come here to play with third grade girls.

Hey, I have a grand daughter in the third grade! You got something against her? You should watch yourself. Your insulting of third grade girls is in poor taste.

Latte, OTOH, is pretty girly if you ask me, and is always poor in taste. I don't drink daiquiris, either. Men drink bourbon. I've never been to Starbucks, too many latte sippers there. Of course, you didn't ask.

Sorry, Art, but I find the conversation humorous. Back to bears, now.

 

[buck460XVR]

Hey, I have a grand daughter in the third grade! You got something against her? You should watch yourself. Your insulting of third grade girls is in poor taste.

Latte, OTOH, is pretty girly if you ask me, and is always poor in taste. I don't drink daiquiris, either. Men drink bourbon.

I too have a grand-daughter in the third grade MC, kinda how I know how they argue. I wasn't insulting them, I just don't come here to play with them. Have you ever tried a little JD with your latte?

 

[H&Hhunter]

He didn't stop and call his Philadelphia lawyer for his advice while bear charged down on him. Having a handgun in this situation is folly. It is as much nonsense as having bearspray. Given a choice, I would rather have a rifle over a can of bearspray, any day.

The statistics on survivability in a bear attack don't agree with this statement. Number one at roughly 90% effective was bear spray. Number two in 80% range was a handgun and last in the sub 50% range was a rifle. Obviously nothing 100% effective depending on the situation and many other variables.

 

[MCgunner]

I too have a grand-daughter in the third grade MC, kinda how I know how they argue. I wasn't insulting them, I just don't come here to play with them. Have you ever tried a little JD with your latte?

And ruin a swig of JD?

BTW, the post was to point out how goofy this latte discussion is. My grand daughter is a forthy this year. I got the OP's point on the "latte crowd". I often refer to liberals and animal rights fanatics as "Starbucks patrons." Me, I buy HEB store brand coffee and make it myself. I can buy two 11 ounce cans for what Starbucks charges for one cup. I've even been known to cut that coffee a bit with ground roasted chicory root.

H&H Hunter, not questioning what I believe is probably good data, but do you have a source for that for my future reference in discussions like this? I would THINK that these numbers are based on the fact that a bear is going to need to be repelled or dispatched at very close range. You're not going to be shooting or spraying it at 200 yards, not a threat, yet. I know that I can draw and point shoot accurately at close range with a handgun a lot easier and faster than I can wield a long gun at close range. To neglect this fact, to me, suggest an absence of experience with handguns. I've never been attacked by a bear, though, so that's an absence of experience for me. I have been attacked...or at least charged at close range by a wounded hog. I dispatched that hog with one shot to the head with a 4" .357 magnum. Afterward, I had to sit down and control my breathing and shaking which, fortunately, started AFTER the charge. I slug my rifle and went after that pig in heavy cover where I couldn't maneuver the rifle. The handgun was handy that day. But, since then, I've sworn off tracking pigs into heavy cover. It just ain't worth the risk. This was my first ever pig and, well, I made a poor shot...it happens. Was behind the shoulder, would have dropped a deer, but I didn't know my pig anatomy.

Pigs ain't bear, though.

 

[gamestalker]

I have several friends in Alaska who on multiple occasions have encountered grizzly showing up shortly after a game kill, moose, deer, what ever. It's become such a common phenomena, that they have made it a regular habit to prepare for such an attack. They have told me of incidents while dressing an animal out and quartering to pack it out, they have had to run bear off with warning shots only to have them return 10 or 15 minutes later, and then again following that. They are persistent. Some have said that while packing game out that bears have been spotted following them, apparently waiting for an opportunity to make their move. They are highly intelligent, and whether or not they associate the blast of a firearm with a waiting meal, who knows? But what we do know for certain, is that they have a nose for blood, which is far more likely the trigger that brings them in searching for an easy meal.

Bear spray is ok as a last resort, but it's best to have some lethal means at the ready, especially when dealing with grizzly. My buddy and I tried pepper spray, it almost seemed to aggravate and change it's mood. I have on multiple occasions had run in with bears, and although they have been black bear, they have been no less persistent, and just as potentially deadly as a grizzly.

I ran one off 3 times in one morning while at camp in S.E. Arizona some years back. It returned again for a similar game of cat and mouse that evening, we moved camp that night. And I have had my camp raided numerous times while in the tent. Bears are unpredictable, and to trust them, is as if to trust a rattle snake. I bumped into a guide and his client back in the 90's, in which the client had his buttocks ripped clean off by a black bear he thought was dead. I assisted in doing what I could to help while medical personnel was in route. The fellow made it, but one mistake nearly cost him his life.

I prefer my coffee hot, with cream and sugar, but it's always so much better while sitting around a camp fire with a loaded big bore handgun on my hip.

GS

 

[Double Naught Spy]

The statistics on survivability in a bear attack don't agree with this statement. Number one at roughly 90% effective was bear spray. Number two in 80% range was a handgun and last in the sub 50% range was a rifle. Obviously nothing 100% effective depending on the situation and many other variables.

I am glad you mentioned the bear spray. I didn't have time too look this up after searching for the pistol stories. Sure enough, bear spray is remarkably effective in a lot of situations, but as you note, nothing is 100%.

 

[herkyguy]

I walked into a Starbucks with a buddy while on the road a few years ago.

He orders "coffee, black" then turns to the rest of us and says something about anything else being girly.

I pushed him aside and ordered a pumpkin spice latte just to spite him.

I prefer plain ol jane coffee myself, but am not afraid to branch out every now and then.

As for Canadian coffee, I've had my fair share of Tim Hortons. You can keep it. Lattes and all.

As for the bears, I'll take any weapon i can get my hands on.

 

[Hoser99]

Well, not exactly... It CAN be done, but you MUST plan ahead, have the proper forms filled out and have obtained approval PRIOR to showing up at the border. This can be done by contacting the Canadian Firearms Program folks here.

Handguns that are defined as "prohibited" won't be allowed, but others that are defined as "restricted" might be - depending on your circumstances. Working with an RCMP firearms officer at the above mentioned link is the key.

Just don't show up at the border and expect to be allowed in if you haven't done the advance work. The customs folks do not tolerate ignorance.

Honest, I very much doubt there would any circumstances where an American could bring a pistol across border. You have to realize that Canada is very sensitive to cross border arms traffic. They even co so far as to block the import of a wood rifle stock or even a firing pin. Be very careful and don't accept the first "positive" answer you get. I don't trust border services to recognize any kind of "permit to cross into Canada". Canada is not the US. Our border guards can be a law unto themselves, answerable to one.

 

[Hoser99]

I have several friends in Alaska who on multiple occasions have encountered grizzly showing up shortly after a game kill, moose, deer, what ever. It's become such a common phenomena, that they have made it a regular habit to prepare for such an attack. They have told me of incidents while dressing an animal out and quartering to pack it out, they have had to run bear off with warning shots only to have them return 10 or 15 minutes later, and then again following that. They are persistent. Some have said that while packing game out that bears have been spotted following them, apparently waiting for an opportunity to make their move. They are highly intelligent, and whether or not they associate the blast of a firearm with a waiting meal, who knows? But what we do know for certain, is that they have a nose for blood, which is far more likely the trigger that brings them in searching for an easy meal.

Bear spray is ok as a last resort, but it's best to have some lethal means at the ready, especially when dealing with grizzly. My buddy and I tried pepper spray, it almost seemed to aggravate and change it's mood. I have on multiple occasions had run in with bears, and although they have been black bear, they have been no less persistent, and just as potentially deadly as a grizzly.

I ran one off 3 times in one morning while at camp in S.E. Arizona some years back. It returned again for a similar game of cat and mouse that evening, we moved camp that night. And I have had my camp raided numerous times while in the tent. Bears are unpredictable, and to trust them, is as if to trust a rattle snake. I bumped into a guide and his client back in the 90's, in which the client had his buttocks ripped clean off by a black bear he thought was dead. I assisted in doing what I could to help while medical personnel was in route. The fellow made it, but one mistake nearly cost him his life.

I prefer my coffee hot, with cream and sugar, but it's always so much better while sitting around a camp fire with a loaded big bore handgun on my hip.

GS

Black bears are far more of a threat than grizzlies. I have a cabin in the Kootenay mountains. Lots of bears, both species. I've had to kill a few because they got acclimatised to people and discovered a small bag of garbage or ??? A switch gets thrown in their head and they forget all about berries, dandelions. The see humans as a food source. That's a death sentence for them. I used to guide for bears around Rainbow Lake, top NW corner of Alberta. Shot lots, trusted none.

 

[Hoser99]

I wonder how many people making comments about this grizzly attack have ever been in the woods where there are a lot of those bears.
In some areas around here in NW Wyoming grizzlies are so thick a rifle shot during big game season will bring a bear in minutes.
Only a fool will be out there alone.
And you damn well better be practiced and prepared for what you're going to do if one comes in on you wanting that elk you just knocked down.

Hunting alone is never wise. He was a seasoned hunter/outdoorsman. Bear was on him before he knew it. He tripped over it. He had a rifle but never got off a shot. I have no doubt that if he had seen bear, he would have backed out. Didn't get a chance. Can happen to anyone but if he had a partner there might have been a different outcome.

 

[Hoser99]

Can we just drop all the PC crap? If someone wants to stereotype an effete tree hugger as a "latte type", let him. At least it shows some use of gray matter to come up with the term. instead of "Duh, yeah man."

It doesn't bother me to be called a honky, Bambi killer, shorty or any other term. Thicker skin is needed by everyone.

Meanwhile back at the ranch, the hunter had a perfect right to be there. He was licensed by the province, doing nothing wrong but fate was against him. Stuff happens.

My "Latte" remark was directed at the crowd that has all the latest in outdoor fashion that never goes off the pavement. They make judgements about this tragedy without the knowledge of hunting/prey or cares about the family's loss. If I seem intolerant to this sort...my point is made. This not about gay/straight/black/white or green.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

If I seem intolerant to this sort...my point is made.

Interesting. You ruined a perfectly good instructional story about what can go wrong by interjecting your blatant prejudices that really had nothing to do with the story, only that you wanted to make a point about how you were intolerant. :banghead:

 

[H&Hhunter]

Interesting. You ruined a perfectly good instructional story about what can go wrong by interjecting your blatant prejudices that really had nothing to do with the story, only that you wanted to make a point about how you were intolerant.

Were you really that put out by the Latte comment DNS? I understood what he was getting at and I have to admit to drinking a foo foo flavored coffee from time to time and it didn't really bother me at all.

Everybody just chilax he made an off color comment about a flavored caffeinated drink for god sakes. It's not that big of a deal.

 

[MCgunner]

^^^what H&H said^^^

:banghead:

I cannot believe ANYone would be offended by the latte comments other than PETA members in a Starbucks in Spokane. Personally, I dislike PETA members intensely. They're the ones who cheer for the bear. They do not value human life as much as I.

 

[ScrapMetalSlug]

This thread is funny. I almost spit out my pumpkin spice mochachino latte with whipped cream all over the keyboard!

Grizzlies are dangerous, nothing new, sometimes they win. Wild places are still wild no matter what year it is or how far away the nearest Starbucks is. The threat of danger is what makes wild places wild, and is also part of what draws people to them. The thrill of being away from civilization is what it's about. Feel sorry for the guy and his family, but it could happen to anyone, you never know.

 

[MCgunner]

There was a thread on this board with a link to an Alaskan newspaper some years ago. 3 guys were fishing, one had a shotgun slung over his back, two were carrying high cap 9s. The bear charged them from 100 yards or so. The two guys with the 9s drew, aimed, and started unloading their magazines on the bear. The guy with the shotgun never got the thing off his back and into action before the other two stopped the bear not far from the shotgunner's feet. Seems the handguns won THAT one.

 

[JERRY]

I would think the latte drinkers comment was meant to imply that there are real woodsmen, and then there are those who own a gun, finish their latte, and go into the woods....

 

[Gun Master]

Bears & Hunters

This hunter was killed! Nothing funny about it.

Could we please focus on bears and hunters ?

 

[JohnM]

We just had a tree hugger type taken by a griz near here. Up in a high griz density area alone with no gun , bear spray, or other defense.
Too bad, but this is not a time of year to be blissfully wandering through the wildflowers in grizzly country.

 

[buck460XVR]

We just had a tree hugger type taken by a griz near here. Up in a high griz density area alone with no gun , bear spray, or other defense.
Too bad, but this is not a time of year to be blissfully wandering through the wildflowers in grizzly country.

Is there ever a time of year to blissfully wander thru Griz country unaware or unprepared? I doubt it, and what you drink for a beverage does not matter. Everyone here wants to claim the hunter in the OP "tripped over" the Grizzly that killed him, even tho he was alone and no one saw what happened. We can guess all we want, but we will never know. What we do know is that it was an unfortunate tragedy and not something that needs to be taken lightly or used as fodder to express our dislike for others. Anytime one enters the woods there is a certain amount of risk. Part of the draw of the hunt. Anyone that denies or ignores these risks is asking for trouble. The hunter killed was experienced and skilled. He knew the area. If he could be attacked and not get a shot off to defend himself, then odds are, none of us could. One does not need to be a "hippie tree hugger" to realize that.

 

[MCgunner]

If he could be attacked and not get a shot off to defend himself, then odds are, none of us could. One does not need to be a "hippie tree hugger" to realize that.

Oooh, I donno. I was pretty quick on the draw on a rabbit yesterday. Now, there ARE killer rabbits out there, just ask Jimmy Carter.

I have no clue the situation that guy was in, how much time he had, etc, but I do know that carrying a shotgun on a sling muzzle down over my off shoulder, I can whip that thing up into action REAL quick, maybe even quicker than I can draw and aim a handgun for an accurate shot. My coach gun fits well and sort of points itself for the shot. I really think, just for hiking, a light weight, short barreled shotgun is what I'd want. I see no reason for it to be a repeater, either, as you're probably only going to get one shot. A load of buckchot in one barrel and a slug in the other sounds comforting.

Just some thoughts. I don't live in bear country, so killer rabbits is all I have to fear.

 

[MCMXI]

I've been hiking fairly regularly up here in northwest MT with my dogs and carry a Marlin 1895 SBL loaded with Barnes VOR-TX 300gr ammunition (.45-70 Govt.). Maybe an 870 would be a better choice. I should probably buy a can of bear spray but keep putting it off. There are supposedly black bear, mountain lion, wolves, coyotes, deer and elk where I hike but so far I've only seen deer, deer poop, elk poop and what is most likely bear poop but my dogs run all over so they most likely scare most critters away. I would love to see a mountain lion but they're elusive for sure.