Hunting dog help!

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kdunn

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I've always had dogs and trained them to be fairly obedient. However I am about to purchase my first hunting dog and in addition to our family pet he will be used to retrieve ducks for me. It will be a lab puppy around 8 weeks old when I get him.

Once he has the basic obedience commands down, what do you guys who have trained retrieving dogs think are the first things I should teach him from a hunting dog standpoint? Retrieving in water? To be calm around gunfire? etc. Any help is appreciated!

Also before anyone asks he is coming from an excellent hunting/working pedigree with champion bloodlines. So the drive should be there, it's just a matter of me figuring out how to train him to hunt since I would rather train the dog myself than send him to someone else to train.

-kdunn
 
If you lab comes from good bloodlines, you should not have to "teach" him to retrieve from water. He/she should have a strong desire to do that. What you will need to teach is how you want him to bring the birds to you,(to hand or drop at your feet) not to hard mouth them and how to mark birds(especially more than one). As for the gunfire, that is a no-brainer. Do not expose the dog to any loud noises that they associate with a negative experience. This includes fireworks and loud bellering when disciplining them.


.........and, patience is truly a virtue when training a hunting dog. Not only when they do something wrong, but when you get frustrated when trying to get them to understand what you want them to do. Make the training experience something the dog looks forward to and not dreads.
 
I probably did it all wrong, but I started my dogs by teaching the simple commands of come, sit, down, and stay. After that playing a lot of fetch. Once they figure out that you are going to throw the ball again, they enjoy giving it to you. Swap over to training dummies after they get the basic concept down. Didn't start on water until they were good on land. Began with cap guns and worked up from there. Group training seemed to help a lot. Once one of them caught on, the others quickly mimicked. The real challenge after a little while was getting the dogs to sit still and not bark excitedly when they see a gun come out.
 
IMO it's never too early to start a pup on loud noises. The dog I have now is a fantastic hunting dog and retriever. Her breeder kept the dam and puppies in a room attached to the garage with a screen door that had a very heavy spring to close it. It would slam shut every time someone went through it. It was pretty loud. The puppies were expose to this from birth and he never had a gun-shy pup.

Starting with a cap gun when feeding and graduating to a blank pistol or .22 is good too. So are banging sticks, pots, whatever during play time and feeding.

Starting early on retrieving is good too as long as there is no discipline attached to it in the beginning .. just play fetching.

Here she is at 9 weeks old.

9weekRetrieve2web.jpg

And here she is a few years later.

NyssaTealWeb.jpg

Training in short sessions twice a day, every day fro the first 9 mos. results in the best dog you can imagine.
 
Buy a book by a guy with the last name of "WHOLERS" i believe,,, has a series of books, but " WATER DOG" is the one pertaining to ,,,,, well,, water dogs!! Anyway, it has been the holy grail for training retrievers in some circles. I found it very useful.
 
Buy a book by a guy with the last name of "WHOLERS" i believe,,, has a series of books, but " WATER DOG" is the one pertaining to ,,,,, well,, water dogs!! Anyway, it has been the holy grail for training retrievers in some circles. I found it very useful.
His name is Richard A. Wolters and I used his book "Game Dog" as the foundation for training my dog, which is the first retriever I ever trained.
 
Wolters wrote several dog training books including the afore mentioned "Game Dog". The title you would be better served by is "Water Dog". It is more specific about training Labs and for water retrieve situations. There is a follow up DVD licensed by his estate using his book as a basis that covers some additional facets of the training. Both the book and video are quite helpful for a novice owner/trainer.
 
Whether it's a gun dog or a house pet, the toughest thing to train is obedience. The OP says he's been successful of that in the past and thus odds are, he'll end up with a good gun dog. Training a retriever to retrieve, is easy enough, if retrieving is all one wants from the dog. If one wants the dog to find and hunt upland game such as pheasants, grouse and quail, then it becomes a bigger project, as one then has to control the range of the dog and the species it pursues. I hunted beside many a good duck dog that it's owners thought would be fine on pheasants in standing corn.....only to watch the roosters fly out 300 yards away.....or spent the day following a dog that liked the smell of rabbits and squirrels more than Pheasants. These same dogs were a statue in the blind and seldom lost even a slightly wounded bird in the water. But that same instinct that lead them to continue and chase a wounded bird in the water is the one that drove the roosters out gun range before they flushed. This wasn't the dog's fault, nor was being a good pheasant dog beyond it's capabilities. It was because the owner assumed that their dog could adjust without being taught. After years of ignoring a difference in scent on animals downed in the water or ground in front of them, those same slight differences between a rabbit and a pheasant on the ground, running down the corn rows, didn't matter either.

Truth is, every hunter is different and their dog needs to be also. It starts with the basics. If one can teach good discipline to a dog with good bloodlines' odds are, once he can make the dog understand it's role in the field, he'll have a good gun dog.
 
I always work with them on the basic commands then train them to deal with the noises and usually they associate the 'bang' with a bird in the water. Also work on blind retrieves, those are easier to teach earlier and mixing them in every once in a while is a good thing, but like someone said earlier patience is a virtue.
 
I've personally raised and hunted with 4 different hunting dogs. And the most important and first command to teach them is the "woe" command. This command is critical, as it is the command that tells them to immediately and completely cease what they are doing, stand still, and await the next command. For a hunting dog, and as a general command with house dogs, this command can save their life when in the field by stopping them from running into the line of fire, or prevent them from running out into a busy street, because it immediately stops them in their tracks. A hunting dog that doesn't know or respond to a woe command will be a very difficult hunting dog to keep control of when control is needed most.

It can be given with different terminology, but it should be noted that what ever word you apply to this command, it must be something that can't possibly be confused with any other command. An example of the wrong words for this would be one that sounds similar to the intended command, such as "no" and "woe", see what I mean. It should also always be a one word command, so it can be delivered with an abrupt, and impossible to confuse tone.

As for gun breaking them, this is a controversial area. Some say start them as pups with fire crackers, or starting pistols during feeding time. Others say that gun breaking them any younger than 1 yr. old is a bad idea, as there is too much risk of them being so traumatized by the noise, that they may never get over it. I've tried both methods, but I did have one dog that I thought I had ruined by starting at too young an age. He did however recover and become a good bird dog, but it was a close call.

The same controversy exists regarding when to start teaching field commands. Some say let them be puppies for the first year, and get it out of their system. I did just that and found that and allowed them to mature a bit before teaching any field commands. I did teach basic obedience, this is important, but don't cram it down their throat when they are still puppies. Too much obedience while in their puppy years can effect their spirit and turn them into a cowering pet unwilling to anything. for fear they will get punished, It can also make them think they must get a reward or treat for every command given, you don't want that to happen.

I strongly recommend reading a good book on this though. Two such authors that helped me a lot were written by DL Walter's, and Larry Mueller. Both of those authors use some very basic, yet innovative methods of conditioning and advanced training drills. It's been a long time since I worked with dogs at this level, but those two trainers really helped me a lot.

One little tip if you have children though. Don't let them chase your dog as a puppy, this causes serious problems later on, or when the time comes to start their training routine. The last thing you want is a hunting dog running from you, or thinking that you want to play with them when giving a command.

GS
 
I've personally raised and hunted with 4 different hunting dogs. And the most important and first command to teach them is the "woe"command.

GS


I believe you are referring to "Whoa" as in stopping a horse. I just use the word "stop" as "whoa" is too close to the command "watch" that I use when I want the dog to not move up on point. The "Whoa" or "stop" command is important to any dog as it should keep them from running into the busy street or the barb wire fence when chasing a wounded/running bird. I still teach "no" since there are times when you want your dog to know that they are doing something wrong, but they do not need to stop immediately and remain still. No is also a command that is universal to everyone. This is a key. Using words and phrases when training that everyone in the household identifies with. If you say "woe" and your wife says "no" for the same action, confusion sets in. Same goes for acceptable behavior. Hard to blame a dog that jumps up on people when a brother always invites your dog to jump up on him. Hard to keep the dog off the couch when your kids let him snuggle next to them in their bed. Teach your dog to shake and he will want to shake with everyone he sees, even when his paws are muddy.
 
Picking words with different sounds is important. Can you imagine trying to tell "Joe" to "whoa" or yelling "no".

My dog knows over 40 different words/commands but she gets confused sometimes when I say "bowl" and "bone" since they sound alike to her.
She never gets confused when she hears "snake" or "gator" though. ;)
 
Thank you buck460xvr, I was in fact referring to whoa and was struggling with the spelling as I wrote that. But my point was simply that it's important to choose words for each command that won't get easily confused with another common word, or command.

Like I said in my reply, it's been a pretty long while since I trained a bird dog, and more specifically, I worked with pointers, which is slightly different than retriever's. For one thing, pointer's particularly, can be extremely difficult to train as compared to a good ol retriever breed. Some of the more extreme methods and technique's employed with a short hair, may not be necessary when training a lab for instance.

GS
 
The best thing I have done with pointers and setters is to teach general obedience. Then hunt them with a finished dog. If they have what it takes, they pick it up quickly. Never had a problem with gunfire if we waited til they were in birds. I have helped force break a couple to retrieve, but mostly cause they wanted to eat the birds.

Course this may not help the OP as he is getting a retriever.

Good luck and enjoy your companion as he grows.
 
Great responses so far guys! I appreciate all of the help and will definitely be purchasing some of those books you have mentioned. Keep any other advice coming!
 
It's imperative you start the pup at an early age.

Many hunting dogs have the instinct to hold the game gently to begin with, but some do not. It's best not to find out the hard way.
 
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Water-man, any advice on how to do this?
Using a frozen bird helps. Also a harness around a live bird that has blunt, short spikes so the dog hurts itself if it bites too hard.

Some dogs are naturally "soft-mouthed" so wait until you see signs of a problem before trying to solve it. Above all, you don't want to do anything to discourage retrieving.
 
Using a frozen bird helps. Also a harness around a live bird that has blunt, short spikes so the dog hurts itself if it bites too hard.

Some dogs are naturally "soft-mouthed" so wait until you see signs of a problem before trying to solve it. Above all, you don't want to do anything to discourage retrieving.

You DON'T have to use a device that hurts the pup and using a device will not discourage retrieving even if the pup has a 'soft mouth'.
 
If you lab comes from good bloodlines, you should not have to "teach" him to retrieve from water. He/she should have a strong desire to do that.

Agree...


OP research your breeder, if they are not putting dogs a field or in a conformation ring, they are more than likely breeding for $$$$$ being the sole motivator... Not the betterment of the breed. In addition, ensure they health test their dogs, OFA Hips, Thyriod, etc etc.

More info can be found here..

http://www.caninehealthinfo.org/brdreqs.html?breed=LR

Ask them why the breeding took place.. If the answer is anything other than "improving their stock".. Move along...
 
Back when I was addicted to waterfowl hunting I trained two Labs and a Chessie using the book "Water Dog" as a guide. I also used the labs for upland game so I used some of the chapters from "Gun Dog". One of the things I didn't consider with my first hunting dog until it was too late is the name of the dog. Do yourself a favor and name the dog with a one syllable word.
 
Do yourself a favor and name the dog with a one syllable word.

99% of commands are single syllable. A dogs name should be two or more so as not to confuse the dog.
 
Do yourself a favor and name the dog with a one syllable word.

In the hunting dog world, this rates up there similar to the "which caliber for bear" in the gun forum world. Many trainers argue that a two syllable name is less confusing than a one syllable name, while many swear by a one syllable name. FME, it doesn't seem to matter and I've used both. I tend to stick with 2 syllables because I don't want the dog to confuse it's name with one syllable commands. The dogs name is not a command, it is his identifier. This is a mistake many dog owners make. They call the dog's name to make him come, or when giving out discipline. Thus confusing the dog as to commands. The dog's name is only to make them know you are talking to them. Believe me, if they know their name, and you use their name appropriately, they will not confuse it with a command. Their name also does not need to be spoken with every command, especially when hunting alone with them. I very seldom use my dog's name at all when hunting, and prefer giving commands only when needed. Many times when bird hunting by myself and the dog, about the only time I speak, is to praise her when she finds a bird or to direct her as to where to go. Most times she knows where to go better than I do. IMHO, It is more important the name should be something that is easily spoken and appropriate. More than 2 syllables is too much. Try to stay as different as you can from your hunting companions dog or any of your other dog's.
 
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