Hunting Gray Whales, Tribal Style

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Just another vote to support the Makah hunts. The mandated use of both harpoon and rifle seems appropriate for the tribe. Marines carry a sword in dress uniforms, but still shoot rifles.
The tribal Elders will favor complying with the restrictions, but boys will be boys. The tribe (a sovereign nation) fought long and hard to obtain any right to take a whale. The Makah used to smoke and can our salmon for us. Someone mentioned the rough bar at Neah Bay. I remember seeing an orca in a wave above our 20-footer. [And my mom allowed my dad to take the boys out there.] Been a while for me, though.
For those who asked, whale does not taste too fishy (at least in Japan). It does not taste like chicken, more akin to salmon. Whale may be cooked and canned.
 
Just my opinion- it would seem that those who favor restricting a legal whale hunt to totally traditional methods ( I guess you have to arbitrarily pick a date beyond which it becomes technologically non-traditional), would be actually causing more whale mortality rather than less if their views were reflected in the laws/regulations which cover these hunts.

A whale struck by a harpoon may or may not be fatally wounded by the initial strike but I would imagine all will dive. If only harpoons were allowed, the second strike also may or may not be fatal but would also be followed by a dive. And so on. Each successive harpoon strike would require a very close approach to the whale to be accomplished. I can envision a whale towing two or three floats swimming beyond the paddling speed or reach of the traditional hunters, going out to sea and dying there, killed by the hunters but not counting as a kill. So they try again.

Reading the regulations as I think I understand them, it seems they have perfectly balanced the equation, requiring a traditional first strike but then allowing a clean kill from a distance upon the whale's re-surfacing. In this case the whale was lost anyway but that is always possible in any true hunting situation.

As politically incorrect to the left as everything in this event is, involving not only hunting, but hunting (gasp) whales, and .50 BMGs, there's absolutely no way it would ever be fairly covered by the media.
 
This was my local papers take on it

"California Gray Whale shot with a machine gun
Apparently Captain Ahab is better armed these days. The whale is swimming out to sea after being shot by five people believed to be members of the Makah Tribe. They shot and harpooned the whale Saturday morning. The extent of the whale's injuries are unknown. The five are being held but haven't been charged. The machine gun was a .50 caliber, which can knock a plane out of the sky or cut a man in half."

Out of the sky , eh?
 
from post:4
But I thought all .50s were good for was shooting down airplanes from miles away by terrorists:rolleyes:
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I knew it was only a matter of time, Haven't heard the "will cut a man in half" thing before though.

I think if any tribe wants to hunt for sustinence/cultural reasons, it is the least we can do to allow them this.
I have been reading about some of the native and european hunting techniques over the last day or two, and it seems step 1 was to approach and harpoon the whale, this was not meant to kill, but just to keep the whale from submerging or escaping. Step 2 (what the rifleman replaced) was to approach and drive a long spear into the blowhole with a hammer:what: this was by far the most dangerous step, often resulting in death or severe injuries to tribesmen, and sometimes a gravely injured wale escaping. Hence 50bmg, 20mm, 30mm, whatever they need to safely and humanely dispatch the whale, im all for. Just imagine if we were limited to hunt deer with rimfire pistols, lots of injured deer and hunters walking around, always use enough gun.
However, the group that poached against tribal law are probably in a heap of trouble, and rightfully so, as the respect that most native american tribes have for wildlife is held deeply within their cultural/religious foundation, and all the trouble they went through to get permission from .gov for the last whale hunt.
 
Well, see...here's the thing. The whale was not only NOT shot with a .50 cal machine gun, it wasn't even a .50 cal....nor a machine gun of any kind....nor even a semi-auto weapon.

It was a bolt-action .460 Weatherby.

According to AP they were relying on an initial claim by the National Marine Fisheries Service regarding the weapon used. Unfortunately, the erroneous claim was repeated in headlines around the globe before AP got around to publishing a correction 3 days later.
 
Yeah, La Push can be a rough place to get in and out of! Many years ago I would spend summers and some winters there. Sometimes we would run out the river mouth and go into the cove on James Island, just had to time the swells right, a very narrow opening. A beautiful place for sure in the summer- except for the fog on the beach. I have watched the CG take the old 44 footers out in some unbelievable weather in the winter big, big breaking seas. Really messes with your sense of perception when you see a dingy out in the heavy surf and then realize it is a 44! Dangerous work, my hat is off to those folk. They have saved a lot of lives over the years.
The Indians? Well, we have killed them, pushed them into reservations, enslaved them with a welfare state, and destroyed their self respect. I have no inclination to kill whales but am happy as hell to see the tribe stick a thumb into the Fed. Gov. eye.
 
these 'hunters' need to do it in the traditional manner.
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How many of us hunt big game with spears? I've never understood the notion that the only way a tribe can exercise traditional hunting rights is with primitive weapons. In this case such practices are not only cruel, but dangerous. The tribe should consult with our captains up north. They know how to do it.
 
the tribe can't win in this situation. Some people will say that to be traditional they have to hunt whales with harpoons.....if they do that, someone else will say that doing so causes unnecessary pain for the whale. If they use a .50 BMG rifle to dispatch the whale, others will say that they are cheating, not doing it the way that it should be done, using a machine gun, etc.
 
Cosmoline,
How many of us hunt big game with spears?
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Don' ya think that spears are modern technology? I think that folks that think the Makah shouldn't use firearms should have to use dull sticks to hunt large game.

Wheeler44
 
Its just the liberals folks, they are confused, this doesnt compute in liberal lala land.

You have downtrodden Indians who are part of a diverse cultural group that has been exploited by the ways of those evil christian republican white men because they don't appreciate the important diversity the Indians provide to our society.

You have the grey whale an (formerly) endangered species the victim of our rightwing capitalist industrial complex hunted for global warming producing oil nearly to extinction.

Then you have the evil GUN its a big gun and the liberals hate guns. They especially hate assault weapons which are all machineguns.

The liberals love native americans, the liberals love Whales, the Liberals hate guns. Thus here is the formula in Liberal Logic:

LNA + LEW + HMG = DW

Love native Americans + Love Endangered Whales + Hate Machine Guns =

Dead whale Killed by EMG Evil machine gun.

So the story is about the evil use of evil machinguns.

Hence its a .50 caliber Machine Gun that Killed the Whale.
 
Cosmo

How many of us hunt big game with spears? I've never understood the notion that the only way a tribe can exercise traditional hunting rights is with primitive weapons.
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Silly.

It's the same reason the Second Amendment only allows people the Right To Keep And Bear Muskets.

The declaration of a "right" or "tradition" automatically freezes time for the permitted technologies. No further advances are allowed in that context.

What? Were you out sick when they gave that lecture?
 
It's the same reason the Second Amendment only allows people the Right To Keep And Bear Muskets.

The declaration of a "right" or "tradition" automatically freezes time for the permitted technologies. No further advances are allowed in that context.

What? Were you out sick when they gave that lecture?
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Funny how the people who give it do so on television, and claim "freedom of the press."
 
If the rifle (regardless of caliber) was used to humanely dispatch the whale, why did it take 20 shots to accomplish the deed? These fellows are in dire need of a LOT of range time! A Gray whale is a BIG animal, and no matter how far (or close) you are, how can you miss?

Last word I heard was that the two members of the 'hunting party' that were on the tribal whaling committee (I think that's the proper term), were removed from the committee/council and will be facing a tribal court. More when it surfaces (sorry, couldn't help myself).
 
...because they don't appreciate the important diversity the Indians provide to our society.
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Hey! I appreciate them! If it weren't for the local Indian tribe I'd have to go all the way to Vegas or Atlantic City to find a decent casino poker game.

So the story is about the evil use of evil machinguns.

Hence its a .50 caliber Machine Gun that Killed the Whale.
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I'm not one to quickly jump to the defense of the press or the liberal community in general, but this error was made by the National Marine Fisheries Service, which is a part of the U.S. Dept. of Commerce...which itself reports to that well-known left-wing liberal, George W. Bush.
 
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Cultural, Traditional, or subsistence?
Is this why I have seen Ford 4X4 beds filled with deer and modern rifles in the back window months earlier than any rifle hunts or Indians comming to your home selling salmon and steelhead? Or from a stand on the side of the highway? Can we say modern boats and gill nets? How does any of that, and I have seen all three in person have ONE thing to do with cultural or traditional? No more traditional or cultural than boats with engines and 50 caliber's to kill whales.
It doesn't! More PC madness and playing the system IMHO
 
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And what doesn't get sold, is dumped in the nearest ditch or dumpster. That is a sad commentary on the tribal rights they claim to so righteously uphold.
 
Why does it take more than one shot?

African elephant: As much as 16,000lbs.
Grey Whale: As much as 70,000lbs.

So, you're talking an animal that is 4x the mass of an elephant. I hear elephants don't always roll over on the first shot either ;).

Also, the head may be pretty big, but the brain and spine aren't.
 
Can we say modern boats and gill nets? How does any of that, and I have seen all three in person have ONE thing to do with cultural or traditional?
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Yeah, and since when does ownership of a lethal .50 BMG have anything to do with the traditional hunting of our forefathers! They hunted with flintlock jaeger rifles, so should we!

In both cases, the question is not what technology was in use 200 years ago, but what LEGAL RIGHTS have been preserved. You're living on land that was in almost all certainty taken from the local tribes under treaties that guaranteed them continuing rights to hunt, fish, dig clams, etc. Up here it's the more recent agreements codified in ANCSA and ANILCA.

If you really don't like it, you can give your land back to the tribe and return to Europe.
 
Yes, they are big. I have been right next to one in the water in a 12 ft livingston and quite frankly, I would not have a clue where to shoot.
 
Yeah, and since when does ownership of a lethal .50 BMG have anything to do with the traditional hunting of our forefathers! They hunted with flintlock jaeger rifles, so should we!

In both cases, the question is not what technology was in use 200 years ago, but what LEGAL RIGHTS have been preserved. You're living on land that was in almost all certainty taken from the local tribes under treaties that guaranteed them continuing rights to hunt, fish, dig clams, etc. Up here it's the more recent agreements codified in ANCSA and ANILCA.

If you really don't like it, you can give your land back to the tribe and return to Europe.
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I have no idea what ANCSA and ANILCA are, but with everything else, well said.
 
Leave the Makahs alone, prosecute the guilty for killing the whale. They probably did it without tribal permission. There are only so many makahs as it is, its impossible for them to even make a dent in the whale population. Let them manage their own affairs. Let it fester the animal rights groups each and every time they deep six a whale.
 
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