HYPO--Pellet Guns--is lethal response OK?

[clubsoda22]

Okay, if it came down to someone firing a pelet gun, i'm assuming you mean someone firing a gamo air pistol, not some high powered air rifle, i'd just wait till they ran out of BB's and tackle them. What's it hold, 8? 15 at the most? Different situation would be if they were singling someone out, like had another kid pinned down and had a clear intent on doing lots of damage, then i'd have to present and issue a verbal threat, but being a paramedic, i don't think i could bring myself to pull the trigger on some kid who was holding what i knew to be a BB gun, silmply because i'd have to work him afterwards and that's a little traumatic, even for me.

As far as self defence goes, in a high stress incident the bodys sences shut down. Hearing is muffled, pain receptors shut down, tunnel vision occurs. If you saw someone pull a realistic BB gun and you suddenly got a surge of adrenaline, there's be no way for you to differentiate a pop from a bang, the pinch of a bb hitting you versus getting hit by a bullet (In many shootings people don't even realize they've been hit until afterwards). If someone drew and fired a realistic looking pellet gun at you, your instinctive reaction would be to draw and fire. Being the hight of the moment, you may not realize it's a kid with a BB gun. Oh well. If cops can get of shooting a guy holding a wallet, you can surely get off shooting someone with a realistic looking replica. However, if you realize immediately it was a BB gun, I would hope that your concience and morals would prevent you from needing to use that defence at your trial.

Paintball gun might be an interesting case, frozen paintballs or marbles fired from a paintball gun can fracture your skull easy.

 

[Drjones]

What are the chances of serious injury by a pellet gun?

Well, if you want to play that game with YOUR eyes, go ahead. For all you know it could be some sick, devious little freak who IS aiming for your eyes.

Handgun wounds have about a 67% survival rate. With a rate that high, you shouldn't fight back against an attacker with a gun, right? Just let him shoot you.

 

[Powderman]

Folks, this is not a flame.

But, come on! We're talking about pellet guns, for heaven's sake!!

Yes, some of them are powerful enough to cause serious injury. These types are readily recognizeable.

Do you realize how you sound? Someone is going to challenge--at the low ready--a kid with a BB gun? Or perhaps you'll Mozambique the miscreant?

I may be judgemental here, but it sounds like someone is trying to drum up reasons to shoot someone! So far, I have not heard any one talk about the very best option in this case:

RUN AWAY!!!!

Use leg power, not firepower!

Come on, folks! It's a BB gun, for crying out loud!

 

[sw442642]

I apologize if I seemed cranky. The initial post did not delineate the situation. Faced with an unknown assailant with a realistic looking handgun, I might well shoot the person. Police have done this - but I think it would because I feared the gun was a real gun.

Faced as I postulated with identifiable children with a identifiable pellet gun, I might have second thoughts about shooting first rather than trying to avoid, warn, take cover, etc.

DrJones mentions that 67% of handgun injuries are survivable. That is a red herring because wounds can cause grievous bodily harm even if you survive. The rates of survival and serious sequelae are probably much different with a pellet gun hit. Since I wear fairly tough glasses, I don't fear as much for my eyes.

You would have to demonstrate to a jury that you have a reasonable fear if it can be shown that it was was an identifiable pellet gun.

I have in my life faced down a young adolescent with a knife whom I could have shot but I chose not too. Perhaps I was foolish but the kid was valuabe to people, troubled and I was called to help. So I took the personal risk.

I have also been on a hike in the boonies and ran across kids clearly playing with a spring loaded pellet gun. I gave some thought to what to do if they took a shot at me. So I watched them till we moved away. If they had turned the gun towards me, I would have yelled at them and ducked behind a tree. I would not have reflexively shot them.

If I am found dead because a pellet went into my belly, into a blood vessel and stopped my heart, then I am dead and wrong.

The situation is not automatic and that's my point.

 

[Drjones]

It seems people are still not capable of understanding a few basics here:

We need to understand that in most cases (if not all) for deadly force to be justified, the threat of death or grave bodily harm needs to be present.

Everyone here seems to have in mind the Red Ryder BB guns they used to plink at cans with in their youth. Even if that is the gun being used, it is still capable of inflicting death and grave bodily harm.

Would you still feel the same way if it was a slingshot? Blowgun? Bow and arrow?

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who is willfully shooting at people with any sort of a BB gun, slingshot, whatever, is intending to do some harm.

That is nice that you all are willing to play so loose and fast with your life and bodily integrity, but I am not.

Does that mean I'm going to empty my magazine wildly and immediately at the shooter? Of course not. Four rules.

However, that depends on the situation. If I'm hiking out in the wild and someone is deliberately targeting me, yes, even with "just a bb gun," I'm going to take cover as best I can.

If he persists and even follows me or starts moving closer, I will most definitely take that as a threat upon my life. How do you know he doesn't have a "real" firearm that he also intends to use? Either way, a BB gun is definitely capable of inflicting grave harm to my body and I'll be damned if I'm going to sit there and allow that to happen because its "just a BB gun" as so many here say.

What's next? Is someone going to argue that you can't use a .45 to shoot someone who's using "just" a 9mm?

 

[Richardson]

it depends...

Reading through this thread, I'd have to say, "it depends",


Regarding the paintball/BBgun/pellet gun being shot at me, there's a lot of processing that would be going on, at least for me:

Was it an accident or intentional?
Was it one shot or continued firing?
Can I get to cover or run away?
Are others being hurt or threatened?
(might be very different if my kids are with me)
Is it a high powered or low powered "gun"?
(Can I tell?)
Are they aiming at my feet, torso, or head?
Is it a little kid, a teenager, or an adult?
Has anyone been hit?

Any low powered BB-gun or paintball gun can blind you, and the paintball gun can deafen you, knock out teeth, choke you, and potentially kill you(most can be adjusted to very high velocities). Or, what about a wrist rocket? How about a youth version of a bow and arrow? Or an adult bow with practice (not hunting) tips?

If they're aiming at my head, and they're a teenager or adult who is apparently trying to harm me, then I have to consider the option of lethal force. But I would seek to get out of harm's way and take a few hits, even from a high power BBgun, if I thought I could get myself & family out of the way quickly. If it's some 8 year old kid with a Red Ryder, I don't think I could even consider lethal force.

Richardson

 

[abaddon]

Just turn around. He can't hit you in the eyes and I seriously doubt that he can kill you, even if he's trying. It's a different issue if you don't know it's a BB gun of course.

Jeff