HYPOTHETICAL - Pro-Gun Dean vs. Bush

[rick_reno]

From Dean's website "I believe the federal gun laws we have—like the Brady Bill—are important, and I would veto any attempt to repeal or gut them. The Assault Weapons Ban expires next year, and it should be renewed."

As Zippy used to say "Yow. Pass the taco sauce, this Ding Dong is a little dry"

Let's see now, we've got a leading Democrat supporting the Brady Bill and renewal of the assault weapon law. Ok.

But wait, we've got a Republican President who supports the Brady Bill and the renewal of the assault weapon law. Ok.

I look at which one of these two can be manipulated by his party to actively promote anti-gun legislation. Which one of these two has, in their respective parties - more powerful anti-gun supporters?

Golly gee Elmer, I think I'd have to vote for that guy from Texas.

This ain't rocket science, while the Republicans aren't perfect, it's the Democrats that have consistently pushed and passed the majority of the anti-gun legislation we have seen.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

I was unable to vote in your poll. ROTFLMFAO wasn't one of the options in your poll.

 

[grampster]

What Duncan says.....

 

[Duncan Idaho]

St. Johns,

You must have missed Standing Wolf's weather, farm, and business report. Which was dead-bang on by by the way.

We just finished having a pro Second Amendment President courtesy of the Demorat party. Bubba Klinton went so far as to put on duck-hunting duds in his first campaign in order to assure us that he was on "our side".

As Quartus and others have pointed out, if a leading socialist rat comes out as "pro-gun", a lot of fools will believe him. The rest of us will know that he/she is LYING.

People simply cannot be self-assured, self-reliant, (i.e. armed) and dependent upon the state for cradle to grave slavery at the same time. The two are as mutually exclusive as possible. If you need proof, ask one of the serfs in your country - that used to own personal defense firearms - where those firearms are today. Go ahead, ask them.

 

[Iain]

So that's no to a vote for a pro 2A Democrat then.

 

[Mark Tyson]

Replace Dean with Zell Miller and then I would be sold.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

So that's no to a vote for a pro 2A Democrat then.

It is more of a declarative statement that no such thing exists. The last truly pro-gun Democrat that existed was - ironically enough - President John F. Kennedy.

He said things like:

"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom."

-John F. Kennedy


"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

-John F. Kennedy


"I am pleased to accept Life Membership in the National Rifle Association and extend to your organization every good wish for continued success."

-John F. Kennedy, March 20, 1961


"By calling attention to 'a well regulated militia', the 'security' of the nation, and the right of each citizen 'to keep and bear arms', our founding fathers recognized the essentially civilian nature of our economy. Although it is extremely unlikely that the fears of governmental tyranny which gave rise to the Second Amendment will ever be a major danger to our nation, the Amendment still remains an important declaration of our basic civilian-military relationships, in which every citizen must be ready to participate in the defense of his country. For that reason, I believe the Second Amendment will always be important."

-Senator John F. Kennedy, April 1960



His like no longer exists within the boundaries of anything remotely associated with the Demorat party.

 

[ReadyontheRight]

Ready - can I take the liberty of rephrasing your hypothetical to get across the point I feel you were trying to make:Candidate A of the Democratic Party emerges. He is very pro-2A.

Would you vote for Candidate A ahead of Bush or would you vote other?

Exactly! We need to push the Republican leadership further toward RKBA.

If a Democrat panders even a little bit to the hunters out there, he or she will get a boatload of crossover votes! I'm not talking the THR regulars, but the 80 of the 80/20 who beleve what they read in USA Today (i.e. the Dean=Pro Gun garbage I've been hearing lately. )

We need to let the Republican leadership know that they need to take at least as strong an RKBA stance as JFK did in 1960. Only 51% of THR members voted for Bush at this point in my little hypothetical. Expand that to a voting populace that knows 1/10 or 1/100 of the background your average THR member knows about RKBA.

Ashcroft stated that RKBA is an individual right. Great. But he is only pointing out a fundamental truth (and getting slammed by the vocal minority for it) and he is not running. Bush will win 2004 in a landslide, but 2008 will splnter the Repubs again if we all don't help them open their eyes.

 

[Joe Demko]

His like no longer exists within the boundaries of anything remotely associated with the Demorat party.

You won't find anybody that pro-2A among the Repugs, either. It is a puzzlement how so many otherwise very bright people continue to suck in for the Repug "at least we ain't the Democrats" line on the 2A. If you think that either of the two major parties is your friend when it comes to guns, then you are out of touch with reality.

 

[fallingblock]

It would NOT be Howard Dean!

 

[revlar]

Here's a hypothetical for you -

What if the 5.66% of the (presumably) pro-RKBA people who took the time to vote in this poll only to say they don't vote - what if they actually DID vote in an election?

What a difference that could make.

 

[geegee]

There have been plenty of Dems that said they were either Pro-2nd, or not anti, but typically here's what happens. At some point either before the election, or even when they decide to go to a national office, the powers that be for the Democratic Party will make it crystal clear that said candidate would find their life much easier, and could count on more political $upport, if they just see the error of their ways. Toe the line.

Remember, at one time Sen. Al Gore was a supporter of the 2nd Amendment. geegee

 

[Sean Smith]

Cthulhu in '04! Why settle for the lesser evil?

http://www.cthulhu.org/cthulhu/index.html

 

[Mark Tyson]

Cthulhu - haven't heard that name in a while. He's the REAL reason we've hung on to all those nuclear weapons after the cold war. You know, I think we have a board member here by that name actually. I'd like to ask him how life is at the bottom of the Pacific.

 

[WyldOne]

Well I'm strongly leaning toward Dean anyway. So if he actually hypothetically, of course, campaigned as being pro-RKBA, that would only sweeten the deal. That's, the best I can remember at 2am, pretty much the only thing that's holding me back at the moment anyway.

But I'm not getting behind anyone, yet. They have to earn my vote. And unless they do that, I shall be casting an empty ballot.

 

[Mark Tyson]

I wanted to like Dean - I really did. I agree with him on a lot of stuff. But he's just not pro-RKBA, and that is a vote breaker for me. I think this thread should be entitled "Bush vs. the Reincarnation of JFK" - then see how people would vote.

 

[Quartus]

JFK was more conservative than Bush. He'd probably have viewed Dean as a traitor.


He's certainly a socialist. And that is NOT a position that is compatible with freedom.

 

[clubsoda22]

I'm not a single issue voter, though the AWB does weigh heavily this election. Here's how i'm planing to vote. I don't care if dean says he supports the AWB because it's out of his control. Bush will be pres when it sunsets. I'm an independent, heres how i will vote under different circumstances.

Dean vs Bush if AWB sunsets -- Dean
Dean vs Bush if AWB is renewed -- 3rd party
Any other Dem vs Bush regardless of AWB - 3rd party

Dean isn't rabidly anti gun. Seems like he's for states doing whatever states want to do (as far as guns go) and the rest of what he is saying is for show. I'd love to vote for him because i like his politics. However, if the AWB gets renewed i'll vote 3rd party out of spite. Notice that Bush is never an option. You couldn't get me to re-elect Bush if you hooked my balls to a car battery.

 

[Dan from MI]

After 8 years of Adolf Klintler there is no way I would ever vote for a Democrat for president unless I see a massive shift on guns away from the Henry Waxmans, Ted Kennedys, and John Conyers wings of the party.

Unfortunatly, we will have two leftists running against each other in Bush and the Democrat running. They both suck, but as of now, I'd be voting for Bush under protest against Dean, who I think is the lessest of the dem evils running. I'd vote for Bush in a minute over scum like Gephardt, the Communist Kerry, Hitlery, or Mr. Censorship Lieberman.

If it's Dean vs Bush, the bottom line is this, and I'm a GOP party member.

AWB signed - I vote Libertarian for president and GOP for the rest.
AWB not signed - I hold my nose and vote for Bush.
Bush has a primary opponent - I'll strongly consider voting for him if it's not another leftist like McStain.

 

[Dan from MI]

BTW - Dean is not pro-gun. He's for the AW ban and is against bills that protect gun manufacturers from ambulance chasers like John Edwards.

Bush isn't pro-gun either as far as I'm concerned.