Hypothetical Terrorist Tactic- would it change your carry choice?

[Lonestar.45]

Terrorists with body armor, and hi cap rifles? Uh, I don't think it's going to matter all that much what kind of PISTOL I'd have, because that's a no win situation. I'd like to think I'd have the presence of mind to calmly take accurate shots at the head (and be anywhere near close enough to be accurate anyway), but the reality might be something different. That said, I'd probably leave the Kel-Tec .380 at home and pick up a .45 Para Warthog. Not that it would help me any more, it wouldn't, but it would make me feel more comfortable, at least.

Look no further than the North Hollywood bank robber shootout to see how that would turn out, even IF 20% of the people around me were also CCW'ing and had pistols. And you know that won't be the case. There'd be lots of sheep slaughtered.

 

[PMDW]

Suppose that terrorists develop a new tactic of bulking up with body armour (torso), an overcoat, and the ubiquitous "Assault weapon"*, going to the mall or other public place undetected, and letting fly 'till the cops come and they are eventually killed.

FN Five-seveN.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Beren, Aldo and Enzo were both excellent shots and were twin brothers, but their terrorists were not wearing body armor. Then again, that was just a Tom Clancy story.

 

[jamz]

My question had little to do with malls in general, but rather with any gathering of people that would present a terrorist with a lot of potential targets. Think beach, church, fair, carnival, amusement park, ferry boat, crowded city street, subway platform, open air concert, parade, bus stop, fireworks show, stopped/slow traffic on the highway, demonstration/march, lecture hall, supermarket on the day before thanksgiving, dance club, anything- let your imagination go wild. Anyplace where there are a lot of people.

If just limited to malls, I'd stay out too- easy solution. But I'm thinking of *anyplace* public. Few people could stay away from crowds permanently without a significant lifestyle change.

-James

 

[kngflp]

re

I think if this became a commen occurence, I , as most would start carrying a long gun of some kind at all times. Mine would be my MAK 90 oh and I would have a vest too.

 

[Jay Kominek]

If just limited to malls, I'd stay out too- easy solution. But I'm thinking of *anyplace* public. Few people could stay away from crowds permanently without a significant lifestyle change.

I think most people could come pretty close if they wanted to.
The only thing I saw on the list that actually had crowds, that you couldn't avoid (different times, giving it up) is the lecture hall.

If terrorists were running around with body armor in the US, shooting people on a regular basis, I'd go out less, and carry my own rifle when I did.

 

[JOE MACK]

Mall terrorists?

I'd just carry a T/C Encore handgun in .308Winchester on a sling under my coat. One shot from behind a stone planter down the hall from the side if they have plates. Maybe I could use my .416 Rigby barrel?

 

[308win]

any gathering of people that would present a terrorist with a lot of potential targets

Think school buses - soft target, unprotected, predictable patterns, high emotional impact.

 

[Boats]

Suddenly, I'd find myself throwing some money at Hamilton Bowen and start shoulder holstering a 6" GP-100 .357 Magnum and the trusty 180gr Partition Golds after action work was performed and upgraded sights regulated to the load were installed. Herrett Jordan Trooper stocks carved just for my hand would go on too. I'd start carrying a New York reload too, probably one of those Scandium Smiths.

I'd find myself carrying a rugged gun capable of precision over distance, a repeating "hand rifle" so to speak, and a lightweight back-up in case someone closed during a reload. Single action head shots from really good cover and as much distance as I could manage would be the order of the day. I would refuse to become a shut-in if terrorists starting whacking folks anywhere they gathered.

 

[Kramer Krazy]

I haven't read all the posts, but my choice for a "pistol", in that scenerio, would be an Olympic Arms OA-93 with 30-round mags under my jacket with a sling, and I'd shoot some steel core SS109 through it.

http://www.olyarms.com/?page=m1_oa_models

 

[papaone]

Very creative.

If or when terrorism comes to our shores, I believe we would all become very creative in dealing with it.

 

[Big Gay Al]

Well, ever since that shooting down in Texas, I've started practicing head shots more often. Since I started, I also discovered that I'm about 50% more accurate if I shoot left handed. So, I've switched to carrying on my left side now.

And since I have a battery of 3 guns that I like, Taurus PT-92, PT-911 and Para-Ordnance 13.45, of which I can shoot consistant head shots, left handed, no, it would not change my carry weapon.

Although, I might try to hunt down 9mm and 45.ACP armour piercing ammo.

 

[junke]

im happy with my Colt commader and i am very consistant at 35 yds (head) although that isnt in an "excited, i get to rid the planet of a POS" situation. my aim at a piece of paper at 100 yds is a tad better than a six point(buck) at 75 and for those of you on the other side of the country thats six points "per side"

 

[Tse Gee La]

First: If there is a man in the mall shooting and you run out to get your _____(rifle, shotgun, etc...) that is in the car, then you run back into the mall you run the risk of the cops shooting you. The reports to 911 will be a man with an evil looking assault rifle. All the cops will see is a person with your not too commonly carried long gun.

Second: I would choose a STI 2011 configuration with 4.5 to 5" barrel in 40S&W. High capacity, accuracy, and favorable balistics.

Third: I was always told if center mass was out of the question aim for the hips. Man is a bipedal creature that does not do as well without the ability to walk. Get them on the ground without the benefit of movement and the headshot should be easier to attempt.

Four: If available move to the second floor that almost all malls now have and aim downward from the balcony. This will more than likely be an area not being shot at as much and will offer a better angle on the head and sholders. Most body armor that could be hidden and is publicly available has the least amount of protection in the collar and top of sholders.

 

[Vitamin G]

Honestly I'm not sure how/if I'd change...

I usually carry either a Kimber .45, or a Browning Hi-Power...

Perhaps I'd start carrying the Delta Elite with doubletap more often... If it didn't penetrate body armor, i'd still have a good shot at blunt force trauma I guess...

I'd probably still keep carrying the BHP with an Alessi Bodyguard... 15+1, and 2 backup mags of 15...

46 is alot of potential headshots...

 

[pete f]

"I'd like to see them commonly dress like that here in Virginia in the spring thru the fall. They would drop from heat exhaustion long before they could do any damage."

Hmmm is Virginia hotter than Tel Aviv in August? Most of these people live in the Sudan or the gulf region. AKA the DESERT. I think they are heat aclimated.

+1 on a school bus. or hijack a LP truck and drive to a college football or world series game and dump the contents and then flick his bic....

or hi jack a barge and crush the lock and damns on the Mississippi north of St Louis or New Orleans you might get twenty thousand dead in New Orleans from the flooding

steal a Anhydrous tank and release it at final four game. or steal a couple of airliners and drive them into a skyscraper, oh wait, these guys are not going to shoot up a mall. they are going to for the evening news type event.

or buy a small nuke from a disgruntled Ukrainian or russian or chinese or korean or israeli or south african or indian or paki, load it on container and ship into NYC or LA or Savanah or Tampa Bay then pull the pin. It is going to happen. just when and where are the questions. a shoot out at the mall is MUCH MUCH more likely to be a couple of gangs deciding to prove who is more macho

 

[biere]

This type of question is where a full size really shines.

Some folks buy glock 17s or 22s and cut the grip down to be the size of the smaller versions. You keep full sight radius but ccw with the smaller grip is easier in many cases.

With what I have in the safe right now I would take a 686 with a 4 inch barrel and adjustable sights because I know what I can hit at certain distances with it.

Personally I would be investing in companies like ups or fedex since internet sales will skyrocket, and I would do it all while sitting at home I reckon.

 

[deputy tom]

jamz,as long as you can make a head shot with your EDC don't change a thing.tom.

 

[rwc]

Given the hypothetical, I think I would cover my family's egress and hope to get them out without firing a shot myself and drawing attention our way. I hate the mall and don't go except with my wife and daughter and my first duty is to get them out. Not very macho, but probably what I would do. If the BGs were between us and the only exit, shoot the "T" and hope for the best (draw a line between the eyes and bisect it down to the sternum).

If this scenario became "common" (probably no more than 3-5 instances would be necessary) I think we would take the Isreali approach of encouraging a publicly armed citizenry. Once that happens terrorists will choose other tactics since they would be unlikely to get more than 20 ft. from their cars with weapons at the ready. Malls would probably have to either "fort up" with heavily armed security and create secure "gun free zones" (possible given most are private property) or, as in Isreal, rely on the citizenry to defend itself.

We would also likely see significant pressure for in-state National Guard deplyment like we saw after 9/11 at the airports. With 50 Governor's yelling at the President I think DOD's current Iraq troop rotation strategy would go out the window pretty fast. If the President refused to release the NG back to their states, you would probably have at least a hand full of states seek to re-initiate independant, state-based militias and DOD would not like that either...

 

[GEM]

Israel - spell checker mode

 

[stevelyn]

Just the fact that the common criminal intent on causing harm, has bulked up on BA should be reason enough to spend more time on FTS drills and consider selecting other targets (pelvis, legs, etc.).

 

[jwhisler]

Suppose that terrorists develop a new tactic of bulking up with body armour (torso), an overcoat, and the ubiquitous "Assault weapon"*, going to the mall or other public place undetected, and letting fly 'till the cops come and they are eventually killed.

BFR in .45/70

 

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

I'd suggest something like this....it's not svelte and concealable like a Model 60, but when you absolutely positively...

...you know the rest.

2 different images, BTW.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=14374

Regards,
Rabbit.

 

[Excalibur]

One reason I often practice head shots!

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I haven't read all the posts, but my choice for a "pistol", in that scenerio, would be an Olympic Arms OA-93 with 30-round mags under my jacket with a sling, and I'd shoot some steel core SS109 through it.

Nice toy, but a bad choice. The M-4 carbine is not doing very well in Iraq because out of the 14-1/2" barrel the .223 round doesn't have sufficient terminal velicity to fragment on entry. Out of an AR pistol it'll be even worse.