"I am the only one in this room........"

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mljdeckard

mljdeckard

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In a part of Utah that resembles Tattooine.
My home town.

(weeping with pride.)

Chief accidentally shoots self at training session
May 4th, 2008 @ 11:56am

RIVERDALE Utah (AP) -- The police chief in Riverdale accidentally shot himself in an ankle while demonstrating how to dislodge a jammed handgun.

Chief Dave Hansen was taken to McKay-Dee Hospital in Ogden for surgery.

The 54-year-old chief accidentally fired a gun during a training exercise inside a conference room at Riverdale police headquarters.

A fire captain and Riverdale Mayor Bruce Burrows confirmed the chief shot himself Saturday in an ankle bone. They said he was trying to fix a gun with a jammed round when the bullet fired.

Riverdale police officers carry .40-caliber pistols.

A Weber County dispatcher said nobody from the Riverdale police department was available Sunday to release any information on the accident. The hospital refused to describe Hansen's condition.

The chief's brother, a state lawmaker, said Hansen is a 23-year veteran and chief of the Riverdale police force since 2006.

Rep. Neil Hansen, D-Ogden, said he regularly goes target practicing with his brother and described him as safety-conscious.

"I've never seen him do anything reckless," Neil Hansen told the Standard-Examiner of Ogden.

------

Information from: Standard-Examiner

(Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3226344
 
In my hometown in PA...oh, back in the 70's, a patrolman was showing how fast he could draw his revolver, and he shot himself through the calf. There was a bullet hole in the floor behind the front desk.
 
An unfortunate accident that could have been a lot worse. I wonder how closely this guy followed the four laws?
 
Notice how often this happens during "demonstrations?" I think the lecturer gets distracted by being in front of an audience and doesn't stay 100% focused on the job at hand.

Hope it's not too serious. Very embarrassing to say the least.

BTW- Is there anyone in Utah NOT named Hansen or Jensen?
 
Hansen, Jensen, Olsen, Rasmussen, etc. In 1855, 55,000 Mormons emigrated from Denmark to Utah. (There are only 5,000 Mormons left there today, for point of reference.) About 80% of the (non-native American) original population of Utah has Danish ancestry.
 
Well, he DID something reckless, he totally ignored the Four Rules
Click to expand...
Please explain precisely how you know he was reckless and that he ignored all of the abbreviated 4 rules (there are actually many more than 4 cardinal gum safety rules); and include the exact facts in detail that you have to back your claim. You are guessing are you not? I mean is it not possible that the guy shot himself due to an accident, that did not involve negligence, especially in light of the fact that there was a bullet reportedly "lodged" in the firearm? For all we know it was a catostrophic failure of the firearm, or the bullet richocheted and hit him in the ankle. Why not wait for all the facts before making such a statement.

Of course there is something he reportedly did wrong, he used live ammunition in a classroom when dummy rounds would have sufficed. I base that on facts as reported, not on a guess.
 
I'm putting odds on a violation of the four rules. I don't think any of us could play with a Glock for HOURS and make it AD without a finger on the trigger. (Or perhaps I've just known more than a few Riverdale cops.)

"catastrophic failures" are rare enough that I worry more about lightning strikes.

It just goes to show that there is no such thing as foolproof. It's a question of finding a sufficiently talented fool.
 
1. All guns are always loaded (until you establish whether they are or not).

2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. Keep your gun pointed in a safe direction at all times: on the range, at home, loading, or unloading.

3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target (and you are ready to shoot).

4. Be sure of your target. Know what it is, what is in line with it and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything that you haven't positively identified.



Well lets see...#1 is kind of a moot point. #2 broken. One only has to look at the hole in his foot for proof. #3 broken. Guns don't go off on their own, with very few minor exceptions. I doubt they are using some poorly designed pistol. In fact I would bet money on it being a Glock. A pistol that just won't fire without pressing the trigger. I also wouldn't put money on a round cooking off. #4 broken...sort of. I'm guessing the foot wasn't the target, so this rule also doesn't really apply in this case. So basically you have 2 relevent rules, and they were both broken.
 
Well Glenn, if he were following the four rules then his gun would have had to 'accidentally catastrauphically unpredicatbly' discharge of its own accord (not impossible but very improbable) while it happened to be pointing in a direction which he considered safe but was infact not (ricochet hazard). We dont know, but I know whzt my money's on... ;)

None of us were there no. However, assuming (uh oh) that report is broadly correct, we can deduce that the chief was most likely demonstrating remedial action drills. I doubt that there was a bullet lodged in the barrel; 'bullet' is used to not only refer to the projectile but also interchangeably with the word 'round'. Note too the journalist's interesting terminology, e.g. 'dislodge a jammed handgun,' which implies their lack of familiarity with the subject matter and so making me doubly unhappy to take the bullet/round distinction at face value.

Your live ammo pint is of course very true.
 
I'm so sick of these reports: "blah blah blah... when the gun went off."

"When the man negligently pulled the trigger, shooting himself in the ankle."

These guns always act just as they are designed to. Sure, it may have had a failure, but it is still an operable gun. It didn't have a "mood change" and get angry and shoot the guy in the ankle. It was still a will-less gun when the human negligence began.
 
I have to agree that demonstartions with live ammo, especially indoors, is a pretty bad idea. If tits a shooting demonstration, then, ok, live ammo, and do it at a RANGE. If its a "clear a jam" drill, or "how to cock/decock" etc, type drill, AND you are going to do it somewhere besides a gun range, bad idea. Either go to a range if you feel live ammo needs to be used, or use fake/inert ammo.

That said, as always, glad the guys ok.coulda been a lot worse for him, or someone else.
 
there are actually many more than 4 cardinal gum safety rules
Click to expand...

It's true. We must always be vigilant against plaque and gum disease. Brushing, flossing, rinsing, and maintaining a proper diet are only the beginning. :evil:
 
1. All guns are always loaded (until you establish whether they are or not).
Click to expand...

I don't think it's fair to accuse the poor man of violating that rule. The article said, in pretty clear English: "They said he was trying to fix a gun with a jammed round when the bullet fired." So my exceptional deductive powers lead me to conclude that unless he was eating breakfast at the time and was such a sloppy eater that he got jam on a crumpet, he knew the gun was loaded, observed that it had malfunctioned, and was doing what might be called "trying to fix a gun with a jammed round."

3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target (and you are ready to shoot).
Click to expand...

I've been wondering about that rule. If someone attacks you at less than arms length distance, it's pretty hard to get the sights on that target unless you poke the fellow in the eye with your handgun.

I suppose you could ask your attacker to back up a few feet so you can get your sights on him, but if you've already poked him in the eye with your gun he might not be cooperative. I don't think it would be polite to step on his toe to get him to back up so you can put your sights on him, which in turn would allow you to put your finger on the trigger.

But maybe you could say something like "Stand there, please" while you back up real fast. Then you could extend your arms enough to get a good sight picture, at which point this rule would allow you to put your finger on the trigger.

Then again, while you're trying to comply with that rule about keeping your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target and you are ready to shoot, maybe your attacker will get tired of waiting and spread jam on your crumpet.

But what if your attacker knows the rules too, is aware that you're a stickler for them and would never sanction their violation, and has a sense of humor. In that case he might whack away at you with a hammer while maintaining the same distance between the both of you. You of course could never put your finger on the trigger because you could never get your arms out far enough to put your sights on the target. Add a little music and there's the birth of a new dance routine.

I wonder about things like that when I read threads like this. Of course there's no reason not to malign the fellow who shot himself. He got shot, we didn't, so we're obviously smarter than he is. Fair's fair.
 
An unintentional discharge can happen to anyone who gets careless and forgets...and many do. Even people with decades of experience can get sloppy if they get complacent.

The best way to avoid becoming complacent is not to get comfortable with the gun...especially a handgun...because it's harder to remain constantly aware of where the muzzle is pointing.

I hear people refer to their sidearm as their "New Toy" or their "Little Friend."

Dangerous mindset to fall into.

It's not a toy, and it's not your friend.
It's a rattlesnake and it's poised to strike whenever it's in your hand...and it flat don't give a rotund rat's rump who gets bit.
 
The 54-year-old chief accidentally fired a gun during a training exercise inside a conference room at Riverdale police headquarters.
Click to expand...

Training with live ammo in a conference room. Guilty , negligent , fail. Do Not Pass Go.
 
Tuner hit it. Those that work with or around firearms every day have more of a tendency to become complacent. Figure it this way:

If you only touch a gun once a month for practice, you only have one opportunity to screw up. If you work on a range/at a gun store you get the same opportunity daily.
 
It is forgetting the four rules by complacency. These accidents occur from experienced people because this one or few times they decide not to follow the rules because all the other times by doing the rules nothing happened.

What these people forget is that we follow the rules for safety sake. When nothing happens great! All it takes is one accidental shooting to ruin your day or someone else?:cool:
 
Okay, I'm going to jump in and play with the facts as we know them, and see if I can come up with a scenario in which the chief did nothing wrong but got injured anyways.

Training exercise in a conference room. Don't know what the training was, but we can assume it didn't involve live fire. So, why were they using live ammo? Who said they were? The article says he was trying to fix a jammed gun. Perhaps he was trying to unload prior to beginning the exercise when the problem occurred. Perhaps he was trying to load up after the exercise was complete.

Shot in the ankle. We're assuming he fired a direct shot into his ankle, but the article doesn't say this. Perhaps he did have the barrel pointed in a "safe" direction (down at a concrete floor/at a wall/etc.) and he took a ricochet in the ankle.

He pulled the trigger. I recall an incident in a local police department that I helped investigate where an officer had an unintentional discharge, if you will, while unloading his sidearm (make and model escape me). While unloading, he had the palm of his hand over the ejection port as he pulled the slide back (kind of a reversed slingshot grip). The round hit his hand and fell back into the chamber crooked. As he released the slide, the extractor struck the primer and discharged the round. He suffered injuries to his hand from the ruptured brass. The bullet managed to lodge itself in the barrel, but lacked sufficient velocity to clear the barrel. In another incident, during testing and evaluation of .40 pistols, a local agency had an officer suffer an injury to his leg. While unloading magazines, the officer was dropping rounds into a box. Ball ammo. A dropped round struck the primer of a round in the box with sufficient force to detonate the round. Shrapnel injuries to his leg from the shell casing rupturing. Local sheriff's department had an incident where a lab tech accdentally fired about 8 rounds out of a Tec-9. While loading for ballistics testing, the tech couldn't get the mag to seat properly, so he smacked the bottom of the mag on the bench. This caused the upper to slightly seperate from the lower, far enough to (1) release the bolt forward and (2)cause the striker to miss the trigger transfer bar and slam forward from inertia, all fo which resulted in the gun going full auto for the seven roudns in the magazine.

All I'm saying is that it is not necessarily the man's stupidity that caused this to happen. Weird things do happen, which is why you should follow the rules as much as possible to minimize risks.
 
One question I have is why was there live ammo in the gun for training on clearing jams. Dummy rounds and snap caps are made for a reason other than dryfire practice.

That was step one in the negligence that lead to him shooting himself.
 
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