I cant believe he said that!!

Status
Not open for further replies.
C-grunt

C-grunt

Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2005
Messages
5,186
Location
Phoenix Az
I was at a local outdoors store, looking at some .22 rifles. There was a couple at the counter looking at getting a handgun for home protection. They were looking at a full size Glock and were asking the salesman about the weapon. While I know this guy doesnt like polymer guns, but he does believe they are good weapons, and he will give good info on them.

So the customer then asked about the safety of the Glock, stating that he had heard that a lot of NDs happen because there is no safety. What the salesman said next almost made me puke. He said "There are two kinds of gun owners; Those that have had a ND, and those that will have a ND".:what:

Now I have had a ND before. One of the most disgracefull things I have ever done. I do not belive that everyone will have one. If you always keep the four rules on your mind, you shouldnt have a problem.
 
Ah, the commonly encountered "pseudo expert/intellectual". It's hard for me to imagine anything that rubs me more than a novice who seizes the opportunity to explain how things work to someone who knows less while posing as a professional/seasoned hand. This is for any subject, certainly not just with firearms.

I recently had to prevent a friend who's wanting to learn to shave with a straight to sharpen his Dubl Duck SatinEdge on a medium/coarse Walmart diamond stone after the sporting goods clerk told him that's what's typically used to sharpen straights. ***?! :banghead:
Fortunately, I was able to intervene and instead lend him an old Bengall (Sheffield blade) and Swaty with a few pointers. Once he feels confident with this blade, he'll move on to his more valuable Dubl Duck.

For the record, I think many, usually responsible gunowners will eventually experience a negligent discharge... unfortunately primarily due to overconfidence/lack of proper attention.
I'm one of them.
I put a 40gr .22LR Winchester Wildcat into the floor of my den after cleaning my MKII one evening after a long day at the range with various firearms.
I was tired and wanting to get on with my shower and bed, not the attitude to have while handling firearms, loaded or not.
Instead of dropping the bolt, inserting a magazine and dry firing in a safe direction, I inserted a live magazine, then dropped the bolt and proceeded to fire a slug into the floor. Understandably, I was wide awake after that... swearing never to be too confident around firearms as to not allow full attention while using, or in this case, during simple maintenance.
 
Every gunowner is a human being, and humans make mistakes, sooner or later. The ND is something that will come when you get very accustomed to your guns. Surely, there are people who would rarely have a ND. I haven't had one, but I have stopped short of pulling a trigger on live cartridge, indoors. I don't know why I didn't check the gun beforehand. I think the point is that for every gunowner there is an instant where he/she breaks one or more safety rules. With luck it will end with nasty surprise and minimal damage, if any, but sometimes will end up bad.

We had a guy here who bought a FN pistol (don't remember the model, but it was something old), the guy allegedly shot himself with it. But later turned out that the trigger was tinkered with by some gunsmith-wannabe, to make it lighter, so that when the gun was loaded and trigger cocked, after some time the hammer released and hit the firing pin. So most probably the guy was killed by accident.
 
guns are like motorcycles the minute you get "use" to them that is when they get you, when you loose respect for them, and forget the little things, that is when you make gunning mistakes or ridding mistakes, both of which could be deadly to yourslef, or even worse someone else. So far I have been lucky, or just smart i don't know which! I carry locked and loaded handguns almost daily and carried a locked and loaded m16a4 for the better part of a year in Iraq. i personally believe that there is no reason for a safety on a weapon, other than to make people feel better about themselves and the weapon. I personally think that the individual carrying the weapon is the safety, you should know when to put your finger on the trigger, and you should most definetly be ready to shoot when that time comes.
 
Pilots have a similiar saying

Many pilots will say that there are those that have landed gear-up and there are those that will.

Of course, it's not really an accurate saying, but just like negligent discharges, it can happen to even the most careful experienced pilot.
 
i dont think what he said was that bad. i know very few people who have never accidentally fired a gun at the wrong time. my buddy still ribs me about the time i was getting a closer look at a bird on a fencepost out at around 400 yards with my rifle scope and i was absolutely sure that the gun was unloaded so i took my time and very intentionally did a dryfire on the bird. BOOM! i see debree kicked up all over and as the dust settles and blows away i see that the bird is still there but he looks mad, shakin his wings and pickin splinters out of his butt. theres a hole in the wood post approx 2 or 3 inches below the birds talons.

now my buddy has his own accident story. hes by far the most careful person i know as far as gun safety goes. hes 10 times as careful now. i guess we all get more careful after a reminder of how easy it is to slip up.
 
For what it's worth, I've heard some legendary firearms instructors say the same thing. While I would never use it in the context of a selling someone a gun, I do think it's useful as a constant cautionary reminder.
 
I think it is a very good thing to keep in mind.

ALWAYS keep your boomstick pointed in a safe direction, so that when you have your own personal brainfart (and assume that you _will_ have a brainfart...) nothing will be injured but your pride. It's the folks who assume that they're "safe" who end up shooting the cat...
 
bogie,

cat shooting? is there a story behind that or have you been watching boondock saints?
 
Remember "I'm the only one professional enough in this room to handle this gun"?

Always assume that you make mistakes, because the very instant you believe you don't make any, you will make one. So you'd better be always on your toes.
 
Context is everything.

I believe the statement to be true. At least it is with most people. Even if it is not 100% true, it is prudent to keep the statement in mind at all times as a tool to avoid negligent discharges.

However, to tell that to a novice who is considering a gun purchase is the wrong thing to say at the wrong time to the wrong person.

He should have said something along the lines of,"You have to use the safety between your ears with all makes of firearms."

But it can happen whenever you are not paying attention as you should. A friend of mine who is a police department firearms and tactics instructor let his attention wander while handling a pistol and shot himself in the thigh.
 
An ND isn't innevitable, but every time you handle a firearm, you should behave as if _this_ is the time it's going to happen, and do your time traveler best to avoid it.
 
NDs arent necessarily inevitable, but they are not uncommon, particularly among those who handle firearms VERY regularly. What he said has been echoed by all manner of very reputable instructors and trainers and it's a fact, sad or not. I do however think this person chose an inappropriate time and place to drop that information, but what can you do.
 
1) NDs are not inevitable. There isn't some "ND fairy" who makes a visit to the gun cabinet of every firearm owner.
2) NDs are avoided through paying attention. If your attention wanders, they immediately become more likely.
3) The more you use something, the more familiar you become with it. As you become more familiar with something, you are more likely to take it for granted and let your attention wander.

How to avoid them:
1) Alcohol and guns don't mix. End of statement.
2) When dry firing or cleaning, ensure the guns aren't loaded. I put the ammo in another room entirely, or at the very least across the room.
3) Follow the 4 rules. If your brain fails you, the 4 rules won't. Even if you have an ND, if you are watching where the muzzle is pointing, you won't be involving a hospital trip.

There's two kinds of people who are insufferable in ND discussions:
1) Those who insist that they are inevitable for all.
2) Those who are so secure in themselves that they become self-righteous and harang those who have had one.
 
Now I have had a ND before. One of the most disgracefull things I have ever done. I do not belive that everyone will have one. If you always keep the four rules on your mind, you shouldnt have a problem.
Click to expand...
When you start thinking you won't, you pretty much guarantee that you will. I know from experience.

ALL guns are loaded ALL the time.
 
I think there is a good bit of truth to the statement. Though, I always heard it said that, "there are three kinds of gun owners... those who have had NDs, those who will, and those who lie." :D

While some folks may go their entire lives w/o an ND, the point of the statement is to drive home that we are all capable of getting sloppy, and none of us are perfect.
 
I guess I'm perplexed by the idea that what the salesperson said is so ridiculous. That same statement has been made, repeatedly, right here on this forum by plenty of our most senior members when discussing the events surrounding NDs by our own members. It's kind of like working in a bank and saying that it's not IF you will be involved in a bank robbery, but WHEN. It's a simple reminder that you have to remain vigilant, follow the 4 Rules, and be careful to not let your guard down.
 
People FAIL.

I feel the statement is the truth. NO ONE IS INFAILABLE

The more noise you make about “I will never” the harder it’s going to be when you do.

No offense but that is life.
 
Given an arbitrarily long period of time, everyone will have an ND/AD. Humans aren't perfect and it's silly to claim "I will never have an ND". You can reduce your risks of an ND/AD with enough safety precautions and checks to the point where you might never see one in your lifetime but it's impossible to eliminate the off-chance of such unless you stopped tinkering with firearms, period. Mechanical failures, other people, etc. Even if you happened to be perfect, there are variables outside your own control.

The same risks go with pretty much any associated activity. Everyone will eventually get in a car accident given an arbitrarily long period of time even if you are the best driver in the world because some other dope could sideswipe you. If you're lucky, you'll make it through a lifetime without an accident, but not because you are immune to it.

That said, packaging such a discussion in a blunt sentence doesn't sound like a good sales pitch. It'd make more sense to talk about specific traits of that pistol which make it safe rather than throw out a quote of the week.
 
Saying it will definitely happen, is just as bad as saying it will never happen.
 
Last edited:
I started having and owning my own guns when I was about 13. In the following 27 years, I had one ND/AD, about two years ago. Shooting some trap with my Uncle's JC Higgins 12GA bolt action shotgun. I took a shot, had left the safety on, called for another while I was taking the safety off and BANG! Defective safety. When I actually thought about it after the fact, the trigger did go about halfway through the pull, more than it should have, but I still took off the safety when I might have taken a closer look. It was pointed downrange away from the trap house, but still, it shouldn't have happened and ruined a perfect record of no ADs/NDs. I combine (as most do) AD and ND since I feel they are both pretty much the same thing. I do think the saying is valid and gives us all a warning that something like that could and most likely will happen at least once in our lives.

0.02..............
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

H
  • Locked
Asked if I had a gun on me.
2 3 4
Replies
91
Views
6K
SDG
S
2
One reason I hate going to the gun shop
2 3 4
Replies
97
Views
6K
Rock185
Rock185
J
  • Locked
gunshop experience.....
Replies
13
Views
646
22-rimfire
2
C
  • Locked
Has this ever happened to you?
2
Replies
48
Views
3K
Gouranga
G
T
  • Locked
I Couldn't Believe It!
Replies
4
Views
937
Standing Wolf
S
Back
Top