I couldn't believe this cop...!

[Harold Mayo]

Not a hilarious post, just a little rant.

By brother-in-law got accepted into the police training academy of a large Midwestern city. He mentioned to my wife that, although his duty weapon would be provided by the department, he must provide his own back-up and a knife. My wife called me because she thought that it would be nice to gift him with these items. It's rare that my wife actually WANTS me to buy a gun and a knife, so I was quite excited. The BIL hasn't even entered the academy and might not make it but I wanted to pursue the issue, anyway, since it was more fun than working.

I called him to see if he had a copy of the PD's "approved" list but couldn't get him. I got the phone number of the PD from the web and called up, explaining what I was doing. I got transferred around to various administrative personnel until, finally, they gave me to an officer.

I explained what I wanted to do to the officer and he informed me, quite haughtily, that I should let my BIL get these items for himself because...and this is part of what really got me (the rest will follow)...he'll know more than I do about firearms by the time he graduates the academy.

I couldn't believe the guy actually told me that.

Since I had given him the name of my BIL, I didn't want to say anything too inflammatory but I informed him that I was QUITE conversant with firearms and knives and had credentials as an instructor in the former.

He wasn't impressed. Well...he doesn't have to be, I guess.

What really got me was this...

I ignored his comment and asked what the duty weapon for the department was. He replied, "A Glock 40" (he didn't say "caliber", either). I said, "OK, do they carry a full-sized 22 or do they use a 23 for duty and concealed carry...I could conceivably get a 27 for him as a back-up."

The response...

(drumroll please)

"A 22 doesn't have much knock-down power. I told you that we used a Glock 40."

Well! I guess I'm just an ignorant civilian. I should leave the firearms talk to PROFESSIONALS.

Taking it in stride, though, I explained that the 22 is the full-sized model, the 23 is the mid-sized model, and the 27 is the sub-compact model. I got silence. After a long, quiet moment, I asked him which of those models it was.

The response: "I don't know."

So much for him. I thanked him for his assistance and found the number for the academy itself. I ended up getting a firearms instructor who apologized when I told him what I had just went through and told me that the G27 would, indeed, be a good back-up gun and he also thought that the choice of a little Benchmade auto-opener would be fine.

:banghead:

 

[El Rojo]

That is a good story. Unfortunately, such behavior is not just limited to cops. There are plenty of those types all over the world. It sure feels good when you politely inform them that they are not as high and mighty as they think.

 

[Don Gwinn]

Well, you caught the dope, unfortunately, but at least he had the chance to see how dumb that was.

 

[glockten]

I guess every department has to have at least one Wiggum.

 

[DigMe]

Wow! That guy should work in a gun store.

brad cook

 

[DontShootMe]

If only...

you hadn't given your in-law's name. - the fun you could've had...



"Can you take a look at YOUR duty weapon and see what the little numbers say after the work GLOCK on the slide?"

"oh, btw, the slide is the part that slides back and forth"

"Are you sure you're a police officer?"

"So, when you YOU be attending the academy?"

"I know you're only kidding, now really, please tell me which model your department uses"

"Would it be possible for me to speak with someone who actually has a clue?"

 

[chaim]

Wow! That guy should work in a gun store.

Darn, stole my line.

 

[Jeeper]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wow! That guy should work in a gun store.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Darn, stole my line.

Exactly what I was thinking

 

[Combat-wombat]

What a moron. To think that anti gun people say that only police should carry guns because they have more training...

 

[gudel]

not everyone is knowledgeable or smart.
wearing a uniform does not exclude someone from stupidity.

 

[Mike Irwin]

I would have laughed at him.

I've been told that by any number of people in the past, military and police.

I've laughed at them, told them how wrong they are.

Then I've proven it to them.

 

[DontShootMe]

Speaking of the Glock 40

I wonder what the glock 40 will actually be.

Maybe, the AWB will sunset and it will be a .40 cal selective fire with 40 rnd mag.

 

[El Tejon]

Please, oh, please don't let that department be Indianapolis. Please let it be Chicago or Deetroit.

 

[Gmac]

The Peter Principle strikes again!!!! ( Sooner or later everyone is elevated to a position for which they are incompetent)

 

[Phantom Warrior]

and he also thought that the choice of a little Benchmade auto-opener would be fine.

OH!!! OOHH!! Pick me! PICK ME!!! *jumps up and down*

Well, you get to hear my suggestion whether you want to or not. Benchmade autos are expensive. But they are absolutely fantastic knives. If you decide to go that road you might consider this. I own one and can't say enough good things about it. They are wonderful knives. The URL I posted is also probably one of the cheaper places to get one. Good luck, whatever you decide.

 

[Brian Maffei]

Great story.

I find the ones that claim to know everything...don't.

 

[Jeff White]

I think that the firearms field has the largest number of clueless experts of any endeavor.

I don't know if it's our culture (all men automatically are experts in firearms and their use becuase they grow up watching media portrayals of their use) or the fact that people in some professions (law enforcement, the military etc.) are trained to a high level of competence in the course of their employment. The media promotes that image and many people won't admit otherwise . Anyone remember the scene in Red Dawn where Powers Booth's charactor (shot down fighter pilot) teaches the Wolverines how to properly employ their machine guns? About as unreal as you can get. Proper employment of machine guns is a dying science in the Infantry, the odds of a fighter pilot knowing about it are pretty slim. That's ok though, I couldn't drive an F16

The facts are quite different. Many police officers only know anything about their issued weapon and only know enough about it to maintain enough proficiency to keep their job. I have been handed firearms to clear and safe them by other officers many times. Better to give the unfamiliar gun to someone who might know how to make it safe, then shoot one's self in the foot. But let's not mistake this lack of knowledge for lack of competence with their own duty weapon. I know a lot of officers who are very good shooters and very tactically safe on the street, but who couldn't clear and make safe a Broomhandle Mauser without getting out an NRA guide. How many here on THR have trouble keeping up with the Smith and Wesson model numbers? Why should we be expecting an officer who's only knowledge of Glock's catalog is probably the one the city issued him to know that a Glock 22 was a .40 caliber?

We can debate the adequacy of police firearms training forever. But let's cut the guy a little slack. He probably felt that the citizen deserved and expected a good answer and was embarressed when he couldn't provide it. So he tried to bluff his way through the phone call. Maybe if we didn't expect everyone who carries a gun in the course of his/her employment to be Ed Ezell, Ian Hogg, Peter Kokalis and Pat Rogers all rolled into one, the poor guy might have been comfortable enough to admit to a perfect stranger (who probably pays his salary BTW) that he didn't know the answer, but would find it out for him.

Jeff - who has had a lifelong interest in firearms and shooting and has worked hard to achieve the tiny bit of knowledge he has, but won't hold it against another officer if he'd rather spend his off duty time on his bass boat. As long as he's competent enough to be safe to work with and I can depend on him for backup, I don't care if he knows all of Glock's model numbers.

 

[Gordy Wesen]

I'd get him the knife made by Charlie Ochs. Better knife.

http://www.oxforge.com/automati.htm

 

[Feanaro]

You would think he would actually know the MODEL NUMBER though. It's on the side. And the officers did say someone who came out of the academy would know more about firearms than Harold here.

I agree that he doesn't have to know a lot about guns but if you don't know something then say so.

 

[Penforhire]

Sorry, such lack of basic curiosity about one of the most powerful lifesaving tools he has in inexcusible and leads one to wonder just how many other, maybe more important, things this fellow is uneducated about. Barney Fife indeed.

 

[SquirrelNuts]

A friend of mine called our county police department and asked which specific round they carried in .40 Smith and Wesson. The woman on the phone said "we do not carry Smith and Wesson's, we carry Glocks." He said "thank you," and hung up the phone.

-SquirrelNuts

 

[Tamara]

Wow! That guy should work in a gun store.

He probably felt that the citizen deserved and expected a good answer and was embarressed when he couldn't provide it. So he tried to bluff his way through the phone call. Maybe if we didn't expect everyone who carries a gun in the course of his/her employment to be Ed Ezell, Ian Hogg, Peter Kokalis and Pat Rogers all rolled into one, the poor guy might have been comfortable enough to admit to a perfect stranger (who probably pays his salary BTW) that he didn't know the answer, but would find it out for him.

My first instruction to any new help at the gun store: "Nobody here knows everything. We subscribe to about a half-dozen magazines here so that you can keep on top of new product launches; please try to at least skim the articles about stuff you're not interested in. For example, I know diddly-squat about bird hunting or skeet shooting and the various guns used for it, and my eyes glaze over every time somebody else imports yet another variation of an Uberti SAA, but I try to keep current with what's out there. However, if you don't know something, do not just make something up! The customer will either A) know you are BS'ing him now or, B) even worse, he will find out you BS'ed him after he has spent money here. If you don't know the answer, say so, and then go find out what it is for the customer."

 

[larry_minn]

No real surprise. There are many officers that feel the gun is a tool they would rather not carry but are required to. I was chatting with a Officer in Northern MN and asked which caliber Sigma he carried. His response??? "We don't carry Sigs we have Smith somethings" He had no idea of caliber or number of rds it held. HE was the Firearms trainer.

 

[Jeff White]

Penforhire,

How much should he know about his squad car? Portable radio? OC spray?

We don't seem to expect the same level of knowledge about these tools as we do of his firearm. Why is that?

I wonder if they pick on officers on the car enthusist boards if they don't know which chip is in the electronic fuel injection in their Crown Vics or Impalas?

What about on the amature radio boards? Are officers who don't know the wattage on their portables put down as being incompetant?

It all goes back to what society expects. People in our society expect that everyone who's ever served in the military or ever was a police officer is somehow infused with this zen knowledge of everything that shoots.

Unfortunately some people in those professions, either out of ignorance or pride will never admit that they don't.

I submit that the officer in question doesn't have to know that the Glock 22 is the full size .40 caliber and the 23 is the compact and 27 is the subcompact. All he really has to know is how to use the one he was issued. He doesn't even really need to know anything more then it's a Glock .40 caliber, how many rounds it carries, and how to use it. I couldn't tell you what engine is in the Impala I use. I know it's a six cylinder. I know what the car will do. Is it necessary that I know how many horsepower is under the hood?

Personnally I would rather have an officer who was level headed and knew how to use his weapon, back me up then one who could give me the formula for the tenifer finish on the slide, but would be better armed with a club because he barely qualifies every quarter but thinks he shoots like Mel Gibson in the Lethal Weapon series.

Sorry, but I'm not willing to cast Don Knotts to play this officer in the story of the large midwestern city PD based on this phone call.

Jeff

 

[jmbg29]

I wonder if they pick on officers on the car enthusist boards if they don't know which chip is in the electronic fuel injection in their Crown Vics or Impalas?

I know I would if the officer in question just finished telling his EMPLOYER - the civilian he is talking to - that cops (once they finish at the academy) know far more about cars than civilians could ever hope to know.

Is this guy a Barney Fife? No. Don Knotts never played a character so stupid that he would say "A 22 doesn't have much knock-down power. I told you that we used a Glock 40."