Had a conversation today that I couldn't win

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gego, the deal is not at all new: "There is a time and a place." Regardless of one's philosophy and one's principles, there are times when a double-handful of shut-up is wisest. And really, at a jobsite is not the best place; not during working hours, anyway.

Art
 
I agree with gego , since the father said he use to be a NRA member I would have had to ask if he had taught his son to use weapons , specifically handguns for self defense .

If he had I would ask if his son wouldn't rather have had the option of defending himself on that day instead of being a helpless victim .

I would also remind him that evil people have always existed even long before the first gun was invented and have slaughtered millions throughout history and they shall always be with us .

We all have a choice when faced with evil , fight or cower down and let it dominate us and decide our fate .

WWII was a prime example of both actions , the European Jews as a rule cowered down and were slaughtered by the millions from the evil of the Nazi's while others such as the English fought and eventually overcame the very same evil .

Being ever vigilant means just that , not to let your guard down only when you're at work or school or perhaps out shopping .

By blaming the NRA he is condemning someone else's son to the same fate as his , should another sick individual try the same thing at the same school .
 
Art,

Of course it does not work to be confrontational. Most people do not want to see themselves or their delusions, but at the same time it is equally cruel to feed these delusions, no matter how much they are suffering.

My real friends tell me when I am off base, and I appreciate them for that; I listen to them because I trust them and their good intentions. You do not need to be mean to someone to not agree with them, or to point out the error in their thinking. It is all in the way you communicate, and honesty is better than letting your empathy for someone letting him abandon rationality.

Gego
 
There's a righteous time for valid argument & a similar time for due compassion & prudence. You didn't lose an argument, you exercised judicious & thoughtful consideration.
 
He has four choices.

Blame the U for disarming all the law abiding people.

Blame himself for letting the kid go there.

Blame the bad guy for killing his kid.

Blame the NRA and guns.

He decided not to do one or three, even though those are the correct choices.

He decided to blame guns and the NRA, wrongly.
 
I lost my only brother 5 years ago due to alcohol use. Although it is not the same as loosing a son to a madman, I can tell you from my perspective that you did the right thing. When my brother died it was quite unexpected. We all knew he had a problem with alcohol. We all tried to get him to stop. Ironically he did stop but, apparently the damage had already been done. He had been clean and sober for 6 months, we were planning our first ever hunting trip together (we had both been hunting for years just never went together for various reasons) the weekend before our trip he called and said he couldn't make it do to a big project at work. A week later I was sitting beside his hospital bed watching him die. The doctors said there was nothing they could do.

What makes me tell you that is this. After the funeral some of his friends wanted to get together and say goodbye. They all asked me to go, saying they wanted to have a drink in his memory. I told them I would never let another drop of alcohol touch my lips. Even now, years later, I run into his old buddies and they want to get together and have a beer. I still say no. I know that nobody that makes alcohol forced my brother to drink. I know it was my brothers choice to open that bottle. I know my not drinking will not bring him back. I still won't have anything to do with alcohol.

As for when to talk to him, just be his friend, he will let you know when he is ready to talk. He may not come out and say it but he needs his space, he need time to grieve, he needs time to be mad, he needs time to force himself to go on. Whoever said time heals all wounds is full of it. I still break down when I think of my brother (the keyboard I am typing on is very blurry right now) All time does is let you learn how to force yourself to think about something else. In time he will mention his son. He will make some passing comment and you can be ready with a comment that might help him realize his son might still be here if he had been armed. When I hear people talking about the shootings at schools and how all those kids would be alive if the were no guns or stricter gun laws, I just remind them that Timothy McVeigh killed over 100 innocent men women and children without firing a single shot. It's not the gun, it's the person holding the gun.

Don't push him, a person who is grieving can go from happy to sad to down right pissed off very quickly. I got rid of a lot of old friends because they kept pushing, handing me a beer, asking why I don't drink, telling me it's not the alcohol, or worst of all... telling me what my brother would have said or done. They had known him for a few years and were going to tell me, his only brother, what he would have said or done.
 
Hey Mr. White

How do you even begin to talk up our cause in a situation like that?

Well, you can't really. It's understandable that such people become a bit "anti-gun". His heart is wounded, and unless you can heal it, it is not going to change. Just love him.

It's always in hindsight, after most of society prohibits concealed weapons and an armed populace, that the law-abiding get blamed for the senseless maniac who goes out to prey on the innocent.

It's like people here say though; you never see the homicidal maniacs show up at an NRA convention.

----------------------------------------------------------------

More deeply thought on, it might be considered that a maniac might join some range or shooter's club, and his feeling of alienation from society might be softened and the sharper angles of his nature smoothed over with a little human companionship.
 
As others have said, there's a time and a place for everything. This was NOT the time to mount an argument for gun rights, no matter how illogical the man's feelings were.
Marty
 
I might have said something like, "I dunno, cops are there to protect us, and they have these high-tech high-capacity weapons. Nobody seems to mind when they use those guns to protect people..."

Though, I doubt'd have done any good. In all actuality, probably better that you held your tounge.The guy is still emotionally attached to the situation. He's unable to detach guns from the killing - which is precisely what the media intended to do with all their lies.

Now ,if you get to know the guy and befriend him, chances are you might be able to make an emotional appeal later on, when he knows and trusts you, and the wound is not as fresh.
 
I might have said something like . . .

And you would have been both out-of-perspective, immensely cruel, and rude. Gun rights are important . . . so are deep feelings of loss, more so in this case. I'm glad the Op met the gentleman instead of you, for all of the reasons stated above. In this instance, tho you are entitled to your opinion, you are DEAD WRONG. The guy lost a child . . . drop the spear & find a tear.
 
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