I decided to exit the AK club

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minutemen1776

minutemen1776

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I admit that I'm biased toward the AR platform. I loved the first one I ever shot, and the AR remains my favorite to this day. However, I have nothing against the AK platform, and I've given it a chance to impress me. Unfortunately, things didn't pan out.

A few years ago, after much research and internal debate, I bought a Polish underfolder. Its accuracy surprised me, and it was always reliable. I even liked the underfolding stock, which many seem to criticize for hindering a good cheek weld. BUT, I never really liked the ergos or controls of the AK. It just never seemed to fit me as well as the AR. So, the AK just didn't get used as much.

Finally, and most recently, I decided to sell it in favor of a new rifle. I'm sticking with the AK round at least, though chambered in a CZ 527. I know that I like Mausers, and I really appreciate the 7.62x39mm round. But alas, I have parted with the AK, not with enmity but with appreciation. It was just not for me.
 
Same here, I am now up to 4 AR's and not likely to stop.
Down to my Last AK. Not going to part with it though.
My Son likes it allot and he shoots it. So it has a job.

My self, I have maybe put 20 rounds through it in a year and a half.
I actually prefer to shoot my SKS much more.

I am not going to disparage an Ak though. I do actually know a guy who can shoot one well. Its scary what he can do with one.

Its just a personal preference thing. I handed my favorite AR to the AK guy and he went. ewwww.... Ok I guess if I had too.
What ya gona do? Good thing they make both.
 
I did the same thing, sold my Saiga conversion and rediscovered my CZ carbine. I did get an AR to replace the awkward AK but the CZ goes to the range every time. And I agree, it's much more 'efficient' to actually aim with the bolt gun instead of blast away with a semiauto.
 
Originally posted by minutemen1776
I never really liked the ergos or controls of the AK.
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It's possible that could be related to the fact that they SUCK.
Don't get me wrong, I like AK's just fine and own numerous examples in five different calibers/gauges.

But anyone that tells you they prefer the AK because it's the best handling, most ergonomic rifle they've ever used probably hasn't fired very many rifles.

The AK has other positive attributes.
I'm not going to go into detail here, suffice it to say that there aren't 147 different versions of direct impingement gas systems offered for AK's, all claiming improved reliability as their main selling point.
Originally posted by: chris in va
it's much more 'efficient' to actually aim with the bolt gun instead of blast away with a semiauto.
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While I'll grant that a CZ 527 is almost certainly going to be more accurate than any AK, sight picture, breathing/trigger control and fire discipline are all functions of the operator, not the action type or magazine capacity. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by: barnbwt
VZ58. It will make you a believer.
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I wouldn't call myself a "True Believer" yet, but it's certainly been a very interesting and rewarding experience so far.
I got one of the Century VZ 2008's, plus enough magazines to kill me if I loaded ''em all up and tried to carry them for more than a mile or two; all for less than $500.

Accuracy isn't as good as a higher grade AR, but inch and a half groups aren't unknown with handloads, even my powder coated, cast bullet "blasting" loads using Alliant 2400 pistol powder usually stay under 3 inches if I do my part.

Ergos are good, not perfect, but far better than an AK, at least for me.

Reliability over @ 2000 rounds (mostly handloads plus about 300, 1970's dated M67) has been almost 100%. My only failures to date were operator induced by firing too many cast bullets too quickly and soldering the piston into the gas block (it happens with AK's too if you're not careful).

So far, I really like the VZ, but it'll take a lot more rounds and a lot more abuse before I trust it as much as my 7.62x39 AK's.
 
I keep eyeballin' those VZ-2008s. My buddy has one, and the $379 sale at PSA looks very appealing.

I consider myself more of an AR guy, but I like the AK. I'm just not willing to pay the going rate for one. I should have jumped on one back when they could be had for under $500.

A couple years ago I missed out on a Polytech AK .223

Still kinda hoping AK prices will come back down to earth. My SKS needs some company.
 
Like the reliability, built quality, and compactness of my Hungarian SA85M but not so much in terms of the ergonomics, certain design features, and original sights. Much more comfortable with my ARs.
 
My only experience is with MAK-90's and WASR-10's, and Colt LE-6920's. I think I would prefer the old style A-1, A-2 with the longer fixed stock, but price is what really keeps me from the AR platform. I got the two AK types mentioned above, years ago for less than half the price of an AR, and I prefer the 7.62x39 more than the 5.56 anyway. Having never had any "Special Training" I still think I would prefer the AK platform in "breach" type situation (since I am more familiar with it); thankfully however, all I have to worry about is paper plates and strategically placed clay pigeons :what:
 
"I keep eyeballin' those VZ-2008s. My buddy has one, and the $379 sale at PSA looks very appealing.

I consider myself more of an AR guy, but I like the AK. I'm just not willing to pay the going rate for one. I should have jumped on one back when they could be had for under $500."

Honestly, there's very little reason to favor an AK over a VZ for anything but subjective reasons (well, and a desire to do repeat mag dumps with your hand wrapped around the foregrip). By objective criteria, they are simply nicer guns (or in the case of the Century VZ's, slightly nicer or on par, at least to milled AKs). Any remaining ergonomic niggles are no worse than an AKs, and practically all are addressed by the aftermarket in plenty.

I just realized, though; it's been like a year since anyone's complained that VZ's don't take AK mags! :p VZ owners will know what I mean by this (I guess word finally got out that they are different guns ;))

FWIW, I've just finished building a Yugo M76 in 8mm*, and while a very cool rifle, it has done nothing to reduce my dislike of the Kalashnikov design. It's just so inefficient and antiquated in so many ways, it's almost like a second-generation autoloader (especially compared to contemporary guns like the FN49, M1 rifle/carbine, SVT40, and SKS). The main thing it has going for it is lots of needless open space and oversized parts inside, which makes service and construction a bit easier. But it is definitely not efficient.

That handguard arrangement and barrel assembly is a totally nonsensical mess, though. Seriously, if I jack up my rear sight attachment the armorer might as well shred the whole gun and start over it'd be so expensive to press off/on all the components (I have my suspicions why we get parts kits so easily; unserviceable rifles). The gas tube/upper handguard clamp system is basically designed to screw up barrel performance, and at least on my M76 is so stiff to mount/unmount you basically need to tools to loosen it (which you must to in order to adjust the gas regulator)

TCB

*I've long sworn off AKs since they register about a "2" on my engineering sensibility's scale of interesting designs, but the M76 is such a slick rifle, rivaling the SVD, that I could make a single exception ;)
 
I love the AK platform, but also decided to jump ship. Sold my 7.62x39, 5.45 and .308 Vepr's. I liked them a lot, but just cant seem to shoot them as well as the AR or PTR 91's.
 
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yeah.. underfolders are a piss poor representation of AKs.. i have abolutely no issues with ergonomics with my AKs, i prefer them.. charging handle is in the same place as it is on an M1A, bolt actions, and most other rifles, i have absolutely no issue sweeping my index finger to drop the safety prior to firing, grip is quite comfortable, balance is great and my red dot is directly above the receiver, co-whitnesses with the sights, and keeps the balance centered while adding no more weight than add on rails would with other rifles

you know, ive always thought it was funny seeing these guys dressed up in body army, fatiques, combat boots, dressed up AR-15.. you know, like theyre special forces or something, only to complain about ergonomics on other rifles.. or add a big muzzle brake on the end of their AR to "tame" recoil
 
i have no issues with recoil or ergonomics.. actually, i have no issues with the rifle at all that i can think of outside of my AK being a 5.56 AK and magazines being expensive for it, i was going to get a permanently attached AR-15 magazine adapter for it, but i'm probably going to be focusing all my future efforts and money into .308.. even then im strongly considered the yugo M77 so i can stay with the AK platform and still have a .308 rifle.. never really had a solid reason to go AR, and never 100% trusted them either
 
AK's are not known for good ergo's; they are known for reliability and "form-follows-function", while AR's are known for good ergo's and accuracy.

By form follows function, I mean that the AK is build differently than the AR (obviously in general sense) that it has a piston and does not require a receiver extension aka buffer tube (and buffer).

I think you came into the AK world expecting something the rifle doesn't do well, and didn't give it a fair chance. I have both platforms and like both--but I'm actually an AR guy at heart.

You apparently like an apple over an orange, metaphorically speaking. nothing wrong with that, but that doesn't mean the AK is inferior to the AR (or vice versa). At least you got to try the AK platform.

Not liking the AK is like not liking revolvers and strictly liking Semi-auto pistols only IMHO. Or liking Semi Rifles only and not Bolt actions. Different strokes for different folks.

Choose your weapon wisely.
 
a lot of it has to do with the AR crowd being lead, quite often through manufacturers and parts/accessory suppliers that certain features HAVE to exist on a rifle.. you MUST have a thumb safety, you MUST have a full length uninterrupted top rail, you MUST have a non reciprocating charging handle, you MUST have a LRBHO, you MUST have a drop-free magazine.. and they tell themselves rifles without these features are inferior.. many will try to claim they are inaccurate, but my 5.56AK shoots M855 at about the same 2" groups as a standard AR15 will, as far as fit and balance goes, this is entirely an issue of very easily swapped out furniture.. well, unless you have an underfolder

my AK is quite comfortable, i have a longer than standard stock, ergonomic pistol grip, polymer furniture that stays fairly cool, i have a safety lever i can easily sweep on and off with my index finger, i dont need a plunger, or springs, or any extra other features just to have a functioning forward assist, my magazines are secured with TWO points of contact, in the front and rear of the magazine as opposed to one, making magazines more secure, and the rock-in action uses leverage to ensure a proper seating which leads AKs to have far fewer magazine related failures

for the sights i have an RS regulate side mount that attaches with a single throw of a lever, holds a perfect zero, and co-whitnesses a bushnell trs-25 (i could put on a more expensive aimpoint, but see little reason to pay more when i wont be getting much more functionality).. i COULD put on an AR-15 magazine adapter, have drop free mags and a functioning LRBHO.. i can even put on a non-reciprocating left side charging handle and a left side thumb safety with available aftermarket.. theres just no reason to do it and im not going to lie to myself about ergonomics and make up a reason for it

so, whenever someone whines about ergonomics, they do it mostly out of ignorance or theyre trying to sell themselves on something else because the fact is the AK aftermarket is very plentiful and an AK can be made to fit anyone comfortably
 
Good points Justin. I agree mostly with what you said.

But the truth is, that the AR is slightly more ergonomic than the AK.
- you can drop the mag with one hand in the AR, not the AK
- left sided or ambi charging handles normally come with AR's since majority of people are right handed. AK's have the CH on the right (is there a left sided CH ?).
- There is a MilSpec Standard for the AR. Not sure if one exists for the AK. This doesn't mean the AK is inferior though, but it means that there are no issues with different sized mag wells (e.g. single vs double stack, different muzzle devices, etc)

Out of curiousity, what kind of AK do you have Justin?
I have 2 converted Saiga's (5.45 and 12ga).
 
actually, with an aftermarket mag release lever you can drop the mag with one hand as well, an extended mag release puts the AK lever in reach of your fingertip and will push a mag out at the same time.. also with an AR-15 magazine adapter it uses the same AR-15 mag release and BHO controls, so there are two ways to have that function on an AK

as for charging handles there are a few aftermarket options for charging handles, one company makes a replacement dust cover that has an FAL style left side non-reciprocator, and theres another aftermarket charging handle that replaces the original gas tube, this one can easily be switched from the left or the right side.. and benefit is neither of these charging handles get in the way of your buttstock, allowing you to put a cheek riser or pad on your stock and not have to worry about charging handle clearance

AKs generally dont have issues with magwells, some of the issues are with some of the AWB modens that were designed to have single stack mags and were later machined out, lacking the appropriate dimples to properly secure the magazine, the only other issue with magazine size is there are AKM magazines for 7.62 and the AK74 magazine well will be slightly narrower for 5.45 and most 5.56 magazines, so that magwell standard only changes when calibers change

and the differences in muzzle devices also exist between caliber, 7.62 rifles will have one thread pattern and AK-74s will have another, so a lot of these issues with different fitment of different parts is because youre mixing in AKM, AK47, and AK-74s which are three different rifles entirely, the 47 being the older milled one, AKM being the 7.62 stamped and the AK-74, based on the AKM but designed around the 5.45x39 cartridge

___

to answer your last question, i purchased a bulgarian AK-74 kit and built it using a 5.56x45 barrel, the bolt head between the 5.45 and 5.56 are almost identical requiring a slight extractor modification, it uses bulgarian circle 10 5.56 magazines which are about $40 each which fit the AK74 magazine well just fine, and 5.45 and 5.56 are close enough in diameter that i can use AK-74 brakes

i have the option of adding a rivet-on AR-15 magazine adapter that includes a LRBHO as well, simply for the fact i could use less expensive AR-15 magazines and have commonality with most other 5.56 rifles, but if people keep pushing back against the ATF and 7N6 5.45 ammo gets unbanned then i will be converting my rifle to that caliber since i like its ballistics better, magazines are cheaper, and the ammo would be much cheaper as well.. the other issue im having thats keeping me from adding an AR magazine well is i may get out of the smaller caliber platforms entirely, keep this one just to have a 5.56 rifle, but focus future ammo/rifle purchases towards .308 instead
 
^^So, in other words, you're saying the ergonomic difficulties the AK faces can be fixed....with extensive mods that make it more like the AR. Considering the price point of an AK in today's market, I gotta ask...why not just buy the AR to begin with instead of trying to turn your AK into one? ;)
 
i wouldnt call putting on a stock to be an extensive mod, and last i checked few people with ARs are running around with fixed A2 stocks.. if you were going to judge the ergonomics of all ARs by the standard fixed A2 configuration, many people would say the ergos suck, LOP being too long, too short, grip being too big, too small.. people customize the AR to fit them, i dont consider customizing the AK to fit the shooter to be "extensive mods to make it more like an AR" in the least bit

the furniture ive added to my AK so far is the fixed NATO length polymer stock, SAW grip to fit my hand, and a vented, shielded polymer forearm, i've been thinking of replacing the rear stock with the galil style tube side folder

and why buy an AK over an AR?.. because ergos can be adjusted to fit the user, an AR will NEVER be as durable, or reliable as an AK, you will never get a folding stock, never be able to mount a forward cheek rest without it interfering with the charging handle, and IF my AK were to jam, i can open the dust cover to get the greatest level of access to the chamber to clear it.. also, i prefer rock in mags, i never have to second guess a seating and bump it to ensure its in, i have two points of contact and leverage, fully curved magazines to make sure magazines seat properly, and securely every time

so its easier to fix the ergonomics on the AK than it is to fix the rest of that on the AR.. and again, changing your furniture out for a better, more personalized fit is not making your AK into an AR, and the right side non reciprocator (being common on many rifles, including the M1A and every bolt action) is far less foreign in concept than you may think.. i find putting a charging handle on the very back of the receiver to be the strange concept that contradicts good ergonomics

__

but there are advantages to the AR, but it doesnt hold a monopoly on ergonomics.. where the AR has its advantages in the more drop-in friendly parts, able to assemble the rifles with basic hand tools, able to take a part from one AR and put into another without fitting, and believe it or not, an AR-15 is a lot easier to build from an 80% as well, requiring little more than a drill press + a milling vice to finish, where the AK usually requires a shop press, folding of a stamping, spot welding, heat treating, and riveting to complete, not including a 10-ton press to install and populate the barrel.. so i think the ARs advantage is more in the logistics of easiest, lower cost assembly and easier repairs when parts do happen to break
 
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From my Army days I despised the AR. But, I am pretty sure the reliability problems we had were due to magazine maintenance (or lack thereof). We used to tote them around in milk crates.

The new 1:7 twist rate and 77g bullets also change the game quite a bit. I don't see any benefit to a 123g bullet at 2300 fps over a 77g at 2800.

I would take an AR over an AK. You just have to keep the AR clean.
 
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