I Deemed Myself

[CB900F]

Fella's;

Not 'redeemed' which means ya did somethin' not-so-good to begin with. I got it right the first time & boy am I proud!

A fella I've known for about a year came into the shop the other day & said he'd bought a handgun. We'd talked before about guns, he's an enthusiast who's been living in 'Politically Correct' climes. Now that he's in Montana, he's able to actually live the second amendment. He'd gotten a Ruger 10/22 this past summer on my suggestion. Now he said that he'd gotten a pistol.

Since he hadn't discussed this with me, I asked him what he'd gotten. He said the 'G' word. I asked him, "why"? He replied that he'd asked the cop he knows about what to get & the officer had suggested 'that brand'. He then said "you don't sound enthusiastic". I told the truth; that I wasn't, but a lot of people were.

"So what would you suggest?", he asked.

I gave him a short list that included in no particular order: CZ, SIG, H&K, S&W 3rd gen, and Taurus. With the disclaimer to try all of them, what fit me wouldn't neccessarily be what worked for him. At this time he told me that he'd looked the miscegnation of the Austrian military & Legos GMBH over & didn't like the cheap feel & looks of it. And by the way, what did I have?

The store gave him a full refund & has ordered an H&K USPc for him. I pointed out that the H&K also has a 'plastic' frame, and was substantially more expensive. To which he replied, "I can feel the quality here".

It's cold here in central Montana right now. I do believe that I'll let the cyber-flames warm the cockles of me heart from the outraged owners of the 'G' machines.

, , 900F

 

[cslinger]

Personally I think Georgia Pacific makes great guns and I don't know why you would shy him away from them.

Actually I am not a Glock fan but certainly wouldn't shy somebody away from one that he already bought. They are not my cup of tea but by all accounts are a damn fine weapon. I owned a G30 for a bit that I really liked and it is one of the very few guns I regret selling.

 

[JohnKSa]

Disclaimer: I own both H&K and Glock products so I'm commenting purely on WHAT you did rather than which brands were involved.

Nice, very nice...

You led a guy who respected your opinion to believe that the gun he just bought wasn't any good and then were able to turn your "evangelism" into profit by selling him something expensive.

No wonder you're proud of yourself!

I especially like the way you justify your actions by putting in the part about how he commented negatively on the gun he just bought after you clearly let him know you "weren't enthusiastic" and that you wouldn't recommend those "miscegnations" to anyone. Because, you know, he wouldn't have handled the gun BEFORE he bought it to find out it looked and felt cheap, and, you know, any guy on the street is willing to shell out half a Kbuck for something he thinks looks and feels cheap. The guy obviously looked up to you and was going to go in whatever direction you leaned. Way to go.

BTW, just because I understand doesn't mean that others will. In the future when you use your position (some of your customers clearly see you as an authority on guns) to spread your own biases and profit from them, you might want to keep it a little more quiet.

 

[ZenMasterJG]

JohnKSa:
Did you read the original post?

 

[james481]

The reason that a Glock feels cheap next to an HK is the $300 you still have in your pocket. I personally like HKs somewhat, but why pay $800 when you can get just as good a pistol for $500?

 

[CZF]

CZs FIRST? You have excellent taste my friend

KEV in Clarkston, WA

 

[2k5Adam]

*Gives standing ovation* Woot! Another one has walked into the HK light!

I keed I keed, but you did a great thing helping him see that what's good for one person, isn't always good for another.

 

[Black Majik]

I was hoping you ended up recommending him a 1911 at the end of the story.

Oh well, a HK > Glock

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

There's an old Montana saying: "Yer buckin' afore yer spurred", which certainly seems to apply to those of whom are reading comprehension challenged. But then, that person has a history of trying to put words in my mouth.

For the record, I do not have an FFL. I do not work in a gun shop. I did not make a dime off of this transaction. I'm a locksmith who specializes in selling safes, check my history on site. My shop has nothing to do with the firearms industry, other than providing secure storage. However, the shop that originally sold him the thing gave him 100% credit towards the purchase of his H&K.

To put it another way; my friend had already turned the corner, as it were, he just didn't know the new destination.

Black: We didn't go to the 1911 pattern guns for two reasons. 1. Because he wanted high capacity & has rather small hands. 2. No Para dealer within reasonable range. Around here, finding a 'stacked' 1911 is a job.

I'm sure I'll now be castigated for defusing a good rant.

900F

 

[middy]

I do believe that I'll let the cyber-flames warm the cockles of me heart from the outraged owners of the 'G' machines.

No flames from me. Just means more Glocks for the rest of us.

 

[CB900F]

Middy;

Now that's the type of exchange I was hopin' I'd get. You can have 'em & welcome to 'em, you're not drivin' up the prices on the other stuff.

900F

 

[gudel]

Once you buy something nice, you just can't go back buying something inferior. If you do, sure you save money, but you'll kick yourself in the nuts for not having that extra workmanship quality by coughing up a little more dough. Same thing applies in other things in real life like wives, cars, houses, etc

 

[JohnKSa]

JohnKSa:
Did you read the original post?

Yup, why?

I do not work in a gun shop. I did not make a dime off of this transaction.

'Twas not at all obvious from your post that you were merely "in the shop but not of the shop." I guess I shoulda checked your profile. Used to do that but so few put anything in them...

I guess I could rework my post taking out the "profit" part but I'm still not terribly impressed with the idea of convincing a new gun owner that his gun isn't any good unless there's really a safety issue.

I know you really think that he was already looking, but that's not what it sounds like.

He told you what he got--who doesn't want to talk about new purchases? Then you immediately questioned him about his decision and made it clear you wouldn't have done what he did. Given that you couldn't even bring yourself to type the word 'Glock', and your colorful description of the product, I think it's not too hard to guess how obvious your "lack of enthusiasm" was--clearly it was obvious enough that he picked up on it right away. Unless he had made it clear that he wasn't happy with his choice before that point, I don't think there's any way to be sure that he wasn't heavily swayed by your reaction--in fact, it sounds VERY likely that he was.

If he had bought a lorcin or some other real junker that wouldn't have served him well, that would have been one thing. That's not what happened--this is simply about a knowledgeable person imposing his own preferences on a newbie.

I'm glad you didn't profit from the transaction--that would have been very slimy. As it is, it's simply a matter of lack of manners. Can you think of any other situation where it would be considered anything but rude to let a person know that their recent, fairly major, purchase was a bad idea in your opinion purely based on your own preferences?

Example:
Person A: I just bought a new Honda (new Sony TV).
Person B: Why a Honda (Sony)?
Person A: Recommendation from an acquaintance.
Person B: <Shows "obvious lack of enthusiasm" because he prefers Toyota (or RCA).>

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

OR, we could do it t'other way 'round.

Goldstar TV to Sony. Yugo to Honda.

He wanted to upgrade based on my opinion, handled both guns, & made his choice. Your opinion differs. I was there, you weren't, call it a day & let it go Glockophile.

900F

 

[MachIVshooter]

'Twas not at all obvious from your post that you were merely "in the shop but not of the shop." I guess I shoulda checked your profile. Used to do that but so few put anything in them...

When did he ever say he was even in the gun shop? When I say someone walked into the "shop", I am usually referring to the automotive shop that I work in. Sounds like he was referring to his locksmith's shop.

Besides, if his friend had been pushed into a Glock (as often happens ), and decided after being given other suggestions that the HK was more appropriate, then what harm was done?

I know a couple dealers around here who push Glocks like crazy because their profit margin is much better. Does not mean it is a superior firearm or that it best suits the customers needs.

 

[Mad Chemist]

You clearly started this thread looking for trouble(post #1)and now that someone has called you on it, your reply is: "I was there, you weren't, call it a day & let it go Glockophile."

Shameful if you ask me.

Reply to the argument or let the thread die.

I won't stick around for the last word. It's all yours.

 

[CB900F]

Mad Chemist;

You forgot the smiley face. Shame for not being accurate. But yes, John & I have crossed words about Gacks before. There's some history you're missing.

However, I did reply to the argument, what didn't you understand?

900F

 

[JohnKSa]

When did he ever say he was even in the gun shop?

He posted "A fella I've known for about a year came into the shop" and then later in the same post said "The store gave him a full refund & has ordered an H&K USPc for him. ... he replied, "I can feel the quality here"." Taken together, it's not at all clear that "the store" and "the shop" are two different places, especially given the present tense of the comment about "feeling the quality" which makes it sound like he was handling a gun at the time of the comment.

...Glockophile.

Aready said that I own products made by both H&K AND Glock (as well as maybe 15 other makers besides). This not about brands, it is about imposing your own personal preferences on an impressionable newbie. Had it gone the other way I would still have posted exactly the same thing.

John & I have crossed words about Gacks before.

I'll take your word for it. Obviously I made much more of an impression on you than vice versa...

I was there, you weren't

I'm just basing my comments on your own story. There is no hint in your story that the guy was the least bit unhappy with his purchase until after you made your "lack of enthusiasm" so obvious that he actually commented on it.

 

[jlh26oo]

Given that you couldn't even bring yourself to type the word 'Glock', and your colorful description of the product, I think it's not too hard to guess how obvious your "lack of enthusiasm" was--clearly it was obvious enough that he picked up on it right away.

this is simply about a knowledgeable person imposing his own preferences on a newbie.

Can you think of any other situation where it would be considered anything but rude to let a person know that their recent, fairly major, purchase was a bad idea in your opinion purely based on your own preferences?

Exactly. Whatever it is we are missing, whatever circumstances the OP is now pleading (which are apparently just too subtle to convey to us in words), all of the above is still true.

I'd feel exactly the same if the guy had bought a Sig, and was told "you just spent too much money on the S-word, could have spent less on a glock and got a better quality pistol." Then got on the board to brag about his victory, seeking validation from the glockers.

The type who are impelled to persuade others to buy exactly what they buy, choose the same caliber as they choose, join the same range, use the same gear bag- they are sadly using people to validate their own decisions. If they convince others to make the same choices, they can be more confident in themselves. This propagandizing may not have earned monetary profits, but definitely yielded returns in self-esteem.

This thread was supposed to have more of the "yeah you set that newbie straight! way to go!" flavor, but you had to ruin it for him John. Damn glockophile.

 

[medmo]

I have felt cheap every time I purchased a Glock.

I generally feel quite extravagent when purchasing a Sig. As a matter of fact I usually where my ascot and monacle for such occasions.

I admit enjoying both experiences equally.

Geez, everyone take a powder please. Any one of you guys would have reacted similar if you had a friend who was a novice with handguns and made a purchase. Read your own posts to check for strong opinons. CB900F simply stated his opinion to a friend after his purchase. I didn't read anything about where he called the guy a moron or beat him with a rubber hose.

 

[jlh26oo]

I have felt cheap every time I purchased a Glock.

I generally feel quite extravagent when purchasing a Sig. As a matter of fact I usually where my ascot and monacle for such occasions.

lol.

Any one of you guys would have reacted similar if you had a friend who was a novice with handguns and made a purchase.

Speak for yourself on that one.

 

[jashobeam]

To each his own

Recently there was a thread regarding "brands you would avoid". Nearly every major gun manufacturer was listed therein. After reading many posts on many threads I have realized that not everyone likes the same firearms. Not everyone shoots equally well with the same pistol. Not everyone has had great reliability with a particular brand. Some people will never patronize a certain brand because they or someone else received unsatisfactory customer service at one time, maybe even many years ago in a brand's manufacturing infancy. Some people refuse to buy Ruger guns because of an anti-ish statement made by Ruger's president (or owner or representative, etc.).

I work at a gun shop and, because of what I've read on THR, I never attempt to dissuade anyone from buying the gun of his or her choice (except for safety reasons--like a .22 for HD). I only explain options. When asked about a brand's reliability (we only sell quality firearms BTW) I say that EVERY brand will put out a lemon now and then, so what really matters is how that company will respond to its customer in such an event. I then say that the gun market is too competitive for any major brand to lose a customer due to poor customer service.

I wish that I could own a great multitude of handguns, but I would not trade my 13-year-old Glock 17 for any of them. I really just don't understand anti-Glock sentiment. It seems more like an irrational prejudice. If it doesn't fit your hand or feel good to you or shoot well for you, then fine. But the design isn't mechanically unsound or prone to breakage. It's not a Yugo or a Goldstar. It's a reliable, durable, accurate, and relatively inexpensive pistol. No shame in buying or owning one.

 

[gc70]

Well, CB900F saved one from the dreaded Glock.

Of course, I have no idea why he recommended a different brand of tactical tupperware...

 

[jlh26oo]

I never attempt to dissuade anyone from buying the gun of his or her choice... I only explain options.

Why is this not common sense?

 

[jashobeam]

What's common is...

Why is this not common sense?

It's not common sense because most gun store clerks don't read THR!
What's common is for people to coerce others into purchasing the brands they like, thereby validating the superiority of the brands toward which they are inclined.

I started my own thread this morning called "Multiple trigger pulls" which was prompted by a gun shop clerk who never fails to point out to potential Glock-buyers that Glocks don't have what's called "second strike capability". He brings it up as if his little bit of info is supposed to turn people away from the Glock counter. Usually, customers look at him like they really don't see how that could be so important as to be considered "THE problem with Glocks". He talks for about a minute or more how Glocks can't, but Berettas can have their triggers pulled repeatedly without racking the slide. Some ignorant customers or newbies might, with all the fuss he's making, believe that it is indeed an issue to be concerned about; but many of our customers are LEOs who probably think he's an idiot trying to make something out of nothing.

At the gun rental counter, this same guy in response to a customer who had asked to rent a light-weight 9mm, instead urged him to rent a Springfield 1911 in .45 ACP. "People love this gun. You won't regret it. Trust me." He totally disregarded the customer's requests for type of gun and caliber, all but insisting on a heavier gun that fires more expensive bullets. Arrogant idiot!