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I dont get the big GUNS?

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by txcookie, Nov 21, 2012.

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  1. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    I would have to agree. Same way I find the "You don't need that big truck or that powerful car, you're just compensating" folks much more abrasive than the people who buy big trucks and fast cars (except those who buy the big, bad, expensive toy for the purpose of being "better" than everyone else. That IS offensive).

    I say buy what you want, whether it's a magnum rifle or a Corvette. You don't have to justify it to anyone (well, maybe your spouse :neener:)

    I have practical and "just because" stuff in many genre. I can't justify hunting deer & elk with my .375 RUM any more than I can driving my 440-powered, 9 MPG '78 Dodge Aspen Coupe to the grocery store. But I don't have to. This is America and I do it because I want to and I can. I'm not trying to impress people. I do it because I enjoy them. Of course, as it were, I usually drive a slower and more economical car, and I usually hunt with a less powerful rifle.

    Point is, don't judge people without a reason. One may not need a powerful magnum cartridge to kill their intended game, but it's their money, and if they can shoot it well, who are you to scoff at their choice?

    .270, 7mm, .30-06, .300 mag, etc. are small bore. Medium bore encompasses >.30 cal up to .40 cal. .416, .458, etc are big bore.
     
  2. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator

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    Here's the deal from my personal experience. Guys who primarily hunt deer don't have any need for something larger. Deer are light and easy to kill.

    When you move up to elk and moose sized critters things start to change a bit. Sure you can kill a deer or a moose with just about anything with a perfect broadside shot. However in reality we don't always get a perfect broadside shot. And that is where a bigger heavier round such as a .35 Whelen a .338 WM or a .375H&H comes into it's own in North America. These rounds allow you to ethically makes those hard quartering off angle shots that you simply can't take with a lesser lighter round such as a .270 or a .7MM.

    Shot placement trumps all but these heavier medium bore rounds allow you to effectively find the vitals on more shot presentations than a lesser round will. They allow you to change your perception of what a decent shot angle is. I have lost count of the number of cow elk that I've dropped in heavy timber with a .375H&H with shots that you wouldn't dream of taking with a .270 or a 7x57 or even a .30-06. Like those trotting away shots that all you have is hard rear quartering shots. I know for a fact that a 270 gr TSX out of my .375 will make it to the vitals from any angle on any elk, all I have to do is send the bullet in the right direction.

    Am I suggesting that YOU need to run out and but a medium bore rifle and change the way you hunt elk or moose? Not at all, I'm just describing where I find these type of calibers to be incredibly useful. In the end you adapt your hunting style to what the equipment you are hunting with and make it work for you. When I am hunting elk with my 06 I change my hunting style somewhat from when I am hunting with my .375.

    They are both great rounds and the .375 allows for different capabilities over the 06 at close range in thick timber where you might be getting yourself into trouble with an 06.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2012
  3. Sheepdog1968

    Sheepdog1968 Member

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    I got a 30-06 for general hunting (though my 30-30 goes out with me more often). I talked myself and wife into getting a 45-70 should I ever have a need for something larger.
     
  4. Jason_W

    Jason_W Member

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    I don't care too much about a magnum designation, but I generally prefer large heavy bullets to small and light ones.

    As H&H hunter pointed out, such rounds do make less than ideal shots a little more doable. I don't get to see many big game animals, so if I do, I want to be able to damage the vitals from any angle. Here in northern New England, you might only see one legal deer in a season.
     
  5. Arkansas Paul

    Arkansas Paul Member

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    +100
     
  6. Andrew Leigh

    Andrew Leigh Member

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    Nice post.
     
  7. DM~

    DM~ Member

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    I'm hunting with a .240 Wby. Magnum, does that count?? :)

    DM
     
  8. wyohome

    wyohome Member

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    I owned a country store in Wyoming for many years. The kind with free coffee, a table to sit awhile and a woodstove. I talked with a lot of out-of-state hunters each year, many making the trip 'out west' for the first time. Of those who talked about rifles, most, it seemed had bought a new one for this adventure, usually thinking that their 270/06/308 was not enough for the cross-canyon shots that they would soon encounter. The magnum was their answer. The problem with that is that many were in no way as familiar with the new gun as they had been with their old hunting companion of many seasons. Some had only fired them a few times, not really a confidence builder. Other than that, there is no drawback from a little more gun.
     
  9. sleepyone

    sleepyone Member

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    +1 on that. I posted earlier that I would not hesitate at all to use my .270 on an elk hunt. I should probably clarify that statement by saying if I lived in elk country and could hunt elk anytime I wanted I would use my .270 if that was all I had. Since that is not the case and an elk hunt would cost me a significant amount of money and time, I would feel much more confident having a magnum caliber such as a .338 Win Mag or a 375 H&H. However, I also would need to put in a sigificant amount of range time and simulated hunting scenarios with the rifle to realize the full benefit of my new, powerful magnum rifle. I know hunting guides cringe when a guy shows up at camp with his shiny new magnum that has been sighted in by someone because the owner fired it once and could not handle the recoil.
     
  10. Alaska444

    Alaska444 member

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    Hmm, never thought of my .300 WSM as a big boomer before, just a bit more than a 30-06. Great gun and as much as I need. Recoil is a bit brisk, but not bad at all.

    For Alaska, it seems that the 45-70 and the .375 H&H magnum are two of the most popular calibers. Even there, I don't consider them the big boomers. Doesn't that start with the .416 Rigby and up from there?
     
  11. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator

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    I'd say that the .375H&H is probably edged out or at least in serious contention with the .338 WM for an all around use medium bore in AK.

    In Africa at least the .416 Rigby is still considered a bit light in elephant country. I know of at least a few guys who are really enjoying the use of a .416 in bear country in AK.
     
  12. RhinoDefense

    RhinoDefense Member

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    My main issue (mostly ribbing the guys) is when hunters use a 300 Magnum to shoot deer over a bait pile that's 20 yards away from their treestand. That makes no sense to me whatsoever. Their money and their hunt. Situation like that I'd opt for a .30-30.

    Then again my father in law used to rib me for using an AR15 in 5.56mm until he witnessed me send a single bullet 267 yards to strike the base of the skull and put the deer down where it stood. No tracking. He suggested I use it only when a deer is in bow range.
     
  13. T.R.

    T.R. Member

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    I hunt a special unit with my 12 gauge slug gun which seems like a cannon to me. It blows big holes through the chest organs but so does my .243 rifle.

    The myth that one needs a magnum to hunt in Canada continues on here in Pennsylvania. The guys tell me I'm crazy to consider a deer hunt without a magnum rifle. One guy offered me the use of his 300 MAG. Yet deer are not armor-plated at all.

    TR

    shotgundeer.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2012
  14. hq

    hq Member

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    Years ago there was a somewhat famous poacher who insisted that .22 is all you need to kill a moose in any situation, you just have to shoot through an eye.

    Personally I like a bit more margin of error in most situations. After shooting a 3800lb pachyderm with a .375H&H seven times, narrowly missing the heart and spine because of insufficient penetration and the animal is STILL running, you kind of realize the importance of bringing enough gun. And, in this case, proper solids too.
     
  15. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator

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    Black rhino??
     
  16. Citadel99

    Citadel99 Member

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    For me, it depends on the situation. Different tools for different jobs. If it only going to be whitetail under 200 yards I bring the 308 or 7-08. If I'm hunting Nilgai and deer where I will likely encounter a 300+ yard shot, I bring my 300 Win Mag. If I am hunting deer in the Southeast and am in thick woods and may have a shot through brush or limbs at a hog or deer, I bring the 45-70.

    Could one gun do it all? Sure,but not as effectively. I am fortunate enough to have a number of guns and enjoy using the right tool for the job.

    Mark
     
  17. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    "For me, it depends on the situation."

    Write that down. :D

    I guess that much of the anti-mag noise comes from those of us who see some Mighty Nimrod using one for whitetail deer, from a box-blind, and at no more than fifty yards or so. That's a serious "Duh?"

    For a critter that'll bite back? A maggie is somewhere between "Good Thing" and "Absolute Necessity".

    And, sure, they're helpful on larger critters at longer distances.

    The thing is, there are millions more whitetail hunters than for any other game species in the US. IMO, 98% of them don't need Miss Maggie. :D
     
  18. Guns&Religion

    Guns&Religion Member

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    I would NEVER tell another shooter what to hunt with, so long as it was legal and ethical.

    Having said that, I had a little "Magnum Fever" and was cured of it. A good friend of mine loaned me his rifle. It was a .338 Win Mag, a beautifull stainless Ruger Hawkeye Mark II. (He could not shoot it, because of a neck injury from a car accident).

    I loved the look and feel of it, but when I would take it out to practice, the recoil was pretty rough. I could only shoot it 6 or 7 times before my shoulder is done. Also the ammo for it was $50 for a box of 20, and that's for the cheap stuff from Wal-Mart. (I'm not a reloader).

    After a few trips to the range with that beast, I ended up buying the exact same model, in .308 The ammo is much cheaper, and I can practice more with it. I usually get in 30 rounds or so before I'm done. I like getting more shooting practice in for the same money.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2012
  19. TexasPatriot.308

    TexasPatriot.308 Member

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    people reading gun magazines, watching "hunting" shows sponsored by manufacturers. a lot of big egos that got to have a big gun. most of the guys that I kniow tht got big guns, cant shoot em anyway.
     
  20. hq

    hq Member

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    TexasPatriot.308,

    I hope your personal testimony that most of the "big gun" owners you know can't shoot them isn't a more general implication, or include an hidden corollary to "small gun" owners as another generalization? Just wondering what was the point you tried to make - some people buying large caliber rifles to compensate their personal inadequacies, and the same people being poor shooters?

    Personally I'm not a pro, not even a particularly good amateur, and on top of all I'm no fan of excessive recoil. Actually I don't like recoil at all, I mostly shoot rimfires nowadays. But still I want to make sure I can put three consecutive shots through a matchbox at 150 yards at a rapid succession with any rifle I hunt with, and .460Wby is no exception. Painful and downright violent at the bench, but still no exception. Should I be concerned that next time I take that rifle to a hunt, some people might think that I'm hung like a chihuahua and tend to shoot holes in people's barns a mile away? :)
     
  21. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    Having a V8 in a pickup, unless you do a lot of towing, is overkill. A good old straight six will do.

    Nobody needs a 20-oz Porterhouse. That same steak is both a 12-oz T-bone and an 8-oz NY strip, either of which is more than adequate.

    I'm big on analogies, and I find they can be used to either support a position or debunk one. The "why does anybody need a magnum rifle" question can be answered by a close look at the above two statement, both of which are, of course, essentially accurate but patently off point. If a man wants a V8 in his truck, so be it. And he wants the whole porterhouse, he can have that, too. The same applies for women, of course.

    If you want a magnum, by all means acquire one, and learn to reload so you can get the most out of it and afford to shoot it. If you don't see a need for a magnum, then don't buy one. But don't expect any sympathy from the "get a magnum" crowd when your critter's out there somewhere suffering or rotting because you didn't use enough gun.
     
  22. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    I have a 7 mag. Quick reply, shoot a little flatter, put a little more energy down range a little farther. Whether you need it or not is up to you. I haven't used my 7 mag in years hunting woods and brush as I've been doing.
     
  23. jimmyraythomason

    jimmyraythomason Member

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    I've had a .300 win.mag.,2-.300 wthby.mags.and 3-7mm.rem.mags.none of which I had ANY need for and no longer have. My BIG guns now are 30.06 and smaller. Unless central Alabama gets invaded by grizzlies,I think I'm covered. ETA,I guess I could have included my 45-70 in there somewhere.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  24. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    laughing-smiley-001.gif Pretty much says it all. If my 7 were my only gun, I'd load it down to 7x57 levels and live happy, no need to buy ANOTHER gun. But, I have a couple others cause the second amendment says I can and, well, I like rifles.

    Now I CAN shoot mine quite well, just don't need that much with what I'm doing now. It's a great gun for New Mexico, though, and not bad out in West Texas.
     
  25. WYcoyote

    WYcoyote Member

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    archie.gif
     
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