I fired my supercharged 38 special rounds today and survived.

[Redneck with a 40]

Keep in mind, I'm shooting these in a 4" 357 magnum revolver.

My load = 6 grains of Unique, Rem. 125 grain SJHP, chrono'd 1080 fps.

My Alliant guide list's the max at 5.6 grains with a velocity of 1070 fps.

I had no signs of pressure, no sticky extraction, no signs of any problems, they were also very accurate.

Since this load performed well, I'm thinking about going to 6.2 grains, if that'll get me 1100 fps, then I'll call it good.

Before you guy's ask me "why bother to hot rod the 38, just load 357's", I've already got 1000 357 rounds loaded, 125 grain SJHP with 9 grains of Unique. I just decided to experiment a little with the o'le 38 special, its fun. My 357 rounds are pushing 1330-1360 fps on the chrono, I'm happy with that.

 

[goings_51]

We have R&D folks to do that sort of thing. I just don't see the benefit of something like what you're doing, especially for 10 FPS.

 

[Redneck with a 40]

Because I can and its fun. I guarantee you, the listed factory load at 5.6 grains will NOT give you 1070 fps, I bet you'd get 1000 fps out of that load, or less.

 

[steveno]

just because you aren't getting the 1070 fps doesn't mean you aren't exceeding the pressure limits

 

[kingpin008]

From what little I know, that's a pretty foolish thing to do. .38 Special brass isn't going to like that sort of treatment for very long, especially if you're reloading cases time after time. Seems like needlessly dangerous pursuit to me, but it's your gun and face. Not trying to talk you out of it, but I seriously hope it doesn't turn out bad for ya down the line.

 

[QuickRick]

Supercharged 38 Special rounds.....

In the for what it's worth department....keep in mind you can greatly exceed 38 Special +P+ loads long before you would experience sticky extraction or other pressure signs of full house 357 loads. I would love to know how Winchester gets over 1,400 fps from their 38 Spec 110 JHP +P+ Law enforcement only ammo within +P+ (22,500 psi, I think) pressure limits. I actually chronoed this stuff at 1,410 fps from my 5" shortened K38. It extracts slick as can be from all my 38/357 revolvers. I look for it at each gun show I'm able to attend. It's one of the only types of centerfire factory ammo I will fork over the dineros for...If you want to see some really smoking hot 38 Spec reload data find an old Speer #8 manual. IF I were to use this data today it would only be in new or once fired brass and out of a quality 357 handgun.

 

[Redneck with a 40]

I'll probably load 50 of these rounds for my emergency/shtf stash. While I'm at it, I'll load up 50 of my 125's with 18.5 grains of 296 for the 357 mag, I've chrono'd these, they are good for 1400 fps.

To anwser the question, no I won't be shooting a case load of these 38 specials, maybe a couple of hundred. I'm reloading my 357 brass for practice ammo, which is what I'm shooting 95% of the time.

 

[jfh]

don't rely on reading primers for overpressure.

Take a look at this picture: http://www.pbase.com/jfh1945/image/82483587

That's the result of firing five rounds of AA#7 under a Lead 140 in a .38SPL case (new Starlines)--the trouble is, the charge was about 17-18 grains. Primers were WSPs. The order of fire probably was 2-1-3-5-4, FWIW. Someone else has estimated the pressure on these loads to be between 55,000 and 72,000. Note that there is no piercing, and IMO, only a bit of flow with no real cratering.

So, figure out what signs you will use for reading your tealeaves--and it ain't primers. I remain pretty convinced that the business-legal CYA mentality has totally infected the reloader-manufacturer's community, but I have no interest in overloads in a 38SPL case.

Jim H.

 

[joneb]

Hi Red,
I'm pretty happy with a 1,050-1,080 fps load it's just under the speed of sound in most cases, I think it's more accurate and easier on the ears.

 

[Redneck with a 40]

I'm only doing a 4-tenth's overcharge, not a 10 grain overcharge. Since these cases fell right out of my chamber after firing, I'm sure they're safe, albeit "hot".

 

[Walkalong]

I would rather do it in .357 cases. That way I don't have to worry about them getting fired in a .38 instead of a .357.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Since these cases fell right out of my chamber after firing, I'm sure they're safe, albeit "hot".

Let me see if I've got this straight. You believe that as long as a case extracts then the pressure level is safe.

That's insane!

 

[tube_ee]

Assuming that he's

shooting these out of a .357 Magnum handgun, and doesn't own any .38 Specials (this is by far the most common scenario), and assuming the pressure is in between a 38 Special and a .357 Magnum, what's the problem?

There's a huge hole in the load map between 38+p and .357 Magnum. An intermediate load could really be quite useful, and would certainly be safe in any .357 Magnum gun. If there's another reason than the possibility of shooting such a load in a .38-only firearm why such loads do not exist, I'd be interested to hear it. Heck, there aren't even any such loads published in .357 brass, which would of course solve the "wrong gun" problem.

I've always wondered why this is the case.

--Shannon

 

[DMZ]

Speer #13 shows 6.0 grains of Unique under a 125 gr JHP as the max load for a .38 Spl+P.

This is one of my favorite loads in my 3" 605. I worked up to it from 5.5 gr and find it to be a moderate, no flash, low blast, +P load and very accurate in both of my .357's.

 

[joneb]

I agree Tube, reduced loads don't sell powder but as you stated

shooting these out of a .357 Magnum handgun, and doesn't own any .38 Specials what's the problem?

this is a unknown variable, and a dangerous assumption. It would be more wise to down load the .357 mag. thus avoiding the crud buildup or other malfeasance from hot rodded .38's in a .357 mag.

DMZ, are you assuming these +p or +p+ loads will be on the head stamp ?

 

[DMZ]

+P is on the head stamp,

but I also assumed, based on my research, that there was no difference between a .38 Spl case and a .38 Spl +P case. They weigh the same.

Also the load in question (6 gr of Unique under a 125 gr JHP) shows a pressure of 18,500 . The max psi for +P loads are 20,000 psi.

So while this load exceeds the industry standard for the .38 Spl (17,000 psi) it is a moderate +P load.

 

[joneb]

Since this load performed well, I'm thinking about going to 6.2 grains, if that'll get me 1100 fps, then I'll call it good.

Allrighty then

+P is on the head stamp,

How do you know whats head stamped on "Redneck with a .40"'s cases ?

 

[bwhited]

Read Starlines explaination of the cartridges, specifically for 38 and 38+P cases.

 

[Redneck with a 40]

These are standard Remington 38 spl cases from what I can tell. As long as these loads are fired in a 357 revolver, I don't think they are unsafe. They were very accurate today, one ragged hole with 20 rounds, they chrono'd 1080 fps, I don't think I'm in the danger zone. I believe this is a good +P 38 spl load that should ONLY be fired in a 357 revolver. You guys seem to think I'm crazy, you can think whatever you want. I think this is a good, accurate 38 load. However, I would NOT fire them in a 38 spl gun.

There is obviously a fudge factor built into the reloading data, 4 tenth's over maximum is not a nuclear, catastrophic powder increase. The fact that they performed very well today is a testament to that. If I had gone up to say.....6.5 grains, then I might very well have been in the "danger zone". I'm not going to grossly overcharge the case or do something stupid like that. 6 grains of Unique is a good load.

DMZ, thanks for backing me up on this one.

 

[asknight]

Well, I guess the question is can your target tell a difference of 10-20fps? I don't think it can, no matter whether the target is paper or bad guy. Pressure increases are NOT incremental to FPS increases. You're straddling the fine line of dangerously exceeding safe pressures for a tiny increase in speed.

With the risks you're taking, please don't expect the powder company to help you out any in the event that you do have a kaboom since you're ignoring their recommendations in printed materials.

 

[joneb]

:banghead:

 

[Walkalong]

I agree jibjab. :banghead: :banghead:

Let them keep playing with fire. The day they get burned is the day the switch to our way of thinking. I can only assume youth. (young,dumb,and full of..........) I was there once myself.

 

[DMZ]

"How do you know whats head stamped on "Redneck with a .40"'s cases ?"

I was referring to the cases I load, not Rednecks cases.

Also this:

"Q: Can I use normal .38 Special brass to load +P loads, or is the brass different? From what I've read, the "+P" mark is to make sure the buyer knows the amino is hotter, not because it is different (stronger) brass.

Dean

A: You can use any .38 Special brass for +P loads provided you work up the load to maximum in the same lot of brass and stick to the same components for reloading. If your brass is mixed, stay at least 10 percent under maximum for safety's sake. If you possess any handguns not rated for +P ammo, play it safe and only load +P ammo in brass so marked."

- Jeff John, GUNS Magazine Oct, 2005

 

[Ol` Joe]

4 tenth's over maximum is not a nuclear, catastrophic powder increase. The fact that they performed very well today is a testament to that.

Just out of curiosity how much of a rise in pressure does 0.4 gr of powder give in your revolver?
I`ve run loads thruogh a rifle (6.5x284) with a strain gage attached and found a 2269 psi gain in pressure going from 49 to 49.5 gr of R22 powder, all else was equal (powder lot, bullet, primers, cases, and loaded and shot at the same time). This is a very slow rifle powder in a good sized case. The difference works out around a 1% gain in powder giveing a 17% gain in pressure. A 0.4gr increase in a 6 gr load is about 15% more powder.
The higher the pressure the faster the powder burn rate and the pressure rises in most cases. I am not saying this rate is occuring in your gun, but I am certain you are hotter then you want to believe. Assumptions are a good way to find yourself in trouble when reloading out of the book.

 

[wcwhitey]

Pressure spikes from fast burning powder like Unique come fast a furious. 1/10's of grains can and will put you over the edge without any warning. I would be less worried if you were using a slow burning powder that spread the pressure out some. It is just my humble opinion but I think you are on your way to a bad day. I am not skidish at all when it comes to loading either, but, your logic is a little off. Bill