My hot rod 38 special load

[Redneck with a 40]

My Alliant load guide list's the max charge for my 125 grain JSP's at 5.6 grains of Unique, which is what I am using. Since I'm shooting my 357 revolver, I decided to try 6 grains, see if I can get these things up to 1100 fps. If they stick in the cylinder, I'll back it off, but I'm not too worried about it. Four tenth's is not a huge difference. I'll see how they shoot on Friday.

 

[Sistema1927]

Four tenth's is not a huge difference.

Um, kay

 

[.45Guy]

If you're trying to up performance, and shooting a .357..... Why not load .357 brass? Just seems like one of those things that can lead to some bad ju ju...

 

[win71]

Not huge........

4/10 increase in a max recommended load of 5.6 gr. is roughly 7%. Most rifle loaders go up 1/2 gr. increments which is generally speaking less than a 1 % increase. ie 57 grs. 4831 in a 270. You may be on the edge of OK. You may want to check some other reloading books. 5.6 grs. may not be the max in some of them.
Ah, now that I read .45GUY's post I realize you're shooting in a .357 so I'm not sure what difference it would make.

 

[KaiserBen]

My Lee manual lists 9.6gr as max in .357 using .357 brass. The brass has a similar capacity, but I'd be wary of using the thinner walled .38 brass for a (admittedly rather low) .357 load.

 

[joneb]

And there's that load density thing I hope these loads will not find they're way to a .38 spl. Accidents happen for a reason.

Sorry I wasn't paying attention, depending on the bullet 6.0gr may put the load into +P+ territory what ever that is. I would rather down load the .357 mag. I've good results with Raineer 140gr plated and 8.5gr of AA#5 w/WSP. I have a few .38spls that I would not want a +P+ finding it's way to.

 

[Steve C]

Speer #13 says 6.0grs of Unique is max with their 125gr bullets in .38spl +P for 1,080 fps. Sierra manual says 6.8grs for 1,100 fps.

I've loaded 6.0grs of Uniqe behind 125gr JP's for years. This is a good load using Remington Golden Sabers and chrono's at 1,053 fps from my 4" pistol.

PS. You will not see sticky cases or flattened primers in the .38 spl until you are way beyond maximum .357 mag pressures and your .38 spl. gun is already being battered into junk.

 

[trickyasafox]

i think, and don't quote me, that 6.0 grains is a 38+p load in my books.

 

[336A]

As Steve C mentioned Sierra goes higher than the Speer #13 Manual. The most updated Sierra manual shows loads that still use IMR4227 and 2400. And bullet weights up to 180gr. I emailed a rep there in regards to what kind of pressure their 158gr over 6.1gr of Unique is developing. When I get a reply I will post it here if you like. But the Sierra data is far and away the most potent I have come across in modern manuals.

 

[DMZ]

trickyasafox is correct. 6.0 grains of Unique under a 125 gr JHP is a +P load. A top end +P load (ref.Speer #13).

I am with Steve C, as it is my favorite load using a 125 gr XTP. I shoot it through a 3" .357 snubby. It is accurate, and has modest recoil so it seems like a great HD load.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Why are people always trying to make a .38 Special into a .357 magnum...If you are shooting a .357 magnum use .357 magnum brass. Don't try to supersize .38 Special brass. It will get you into trouble...Some day when you least expect it you or a friend will load those "hot-rod .38 Specials into a weak or cheap .38 special and KA-BOOM!!! Stop trying to short-cut the system and do it right...Besides if you keep shooting .38 Specials in a .357 magnum you will eventually wear a ring in the cylinder chambers that when you shoot a .357 magnum cartrige it will swell into the .38 Special wear ring. makeing extraction difficult if not worse. How do I know///I own a S&W .357 magnum with just that problem...:banghead:

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I do not want to leave my heirs some hot loaded .38 Special
for my .357 Ruger, when those heirs might inherit my 2"
snub .38. I even make a point of doing .38 +P loads in .357 cases
for that reason.

 

[trickyasafox]

hey bushy-

how long did it take you to wear that ring? i shoot 38spl probably 95+% of the time in the only revolver i have (still not tons of rounds through it, so im not worried yet)

I just have sooooo much 38spl brass, and maybe 300 pieces of 357 mag brass, which would only last me 1-2 range visits.

also its harder for me to visually inspect powder charges in the 357 mag case, not that its that much longer, but the extra bit gives me a wierd angle to look down in on my press.

 

[steveno]

.4 grains isn't too much. that sounds like famous last words

 

[HankB]

Speer's #8 reloading manual (June 1970) had a reputation for hot maximum loads - they developed various Unique loads in a 6" K-38, using their 125 grain soft point; here are their results, using Speer-DWM cases and CCI500 primers:

6.5 Unique - 1100 ft/sec
7.0 Unique - 1131 ft/sec
7.5 Unique - 1207 ft/sec

My older Sierra bullets manual (copyright 1978) also shows .38 Special loads with a 6" K-38, using 125 JSP/JHC bullets, Super Vel cases, and the CCI500 primers:

6.4 Unique - 1050 ft/sec
6.8 Unique - 1100 ft/sec
7.0 Unique - 1150 ft/sec

It wouldn't surprise me a bit if some of these loads exceeded today's SAAMI specs. Though I haven't tried these particular loads, the Speer manual listed some maximums with other powders that I would not shoot in any of my guns - even as inexperienced as I was 'way back then, I figured they were TOO hot.

(I still find it interesting that the starting loads of yesteryear are hotter than today's maximum loads.)

 

[Redneck with a 40]

I only loaded 10 of these things, just to experiment with it. They will all get fired off on Friday, there won't be any left to find their way into a 38 special gun, that won't happen because I don't own a 38 special revolver, ONLY 357's. I also load 357 rounds for my 357 95% of the time, 9 grains of Unique behind a Rem 125 grain SJHP, is what I've been shooting, this is a good load. I just decided to play with a few 38 special's, its not something I normally load.

 

[308win]

(I still find it interesting that the starting loads of yesteryear are hotter than today's maximum loads.)

Maybe attorneys have something to do with it; maybe todays powders develop more energy for a given weight; maybe the load book publishers were wrong then or are wrong now.

I don't shoot much +p in my 642 but I do shoot a lot of midrange .38special and I expect it to be going long after I am gone.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Trickyasfox...It wasn't my revolver. It was a friend of mine that bought the .357 magnum S&W many years ago and shot nothing but .38 Specials in it. Then out of the blue he decided to try some of my .357 rounds. They were mild loads. And no...There was no carbon build up in the chambers due to the .38's. But there was a definate crimp ring worn into the cylinder chamber walls. A bit of a hassle driving them out at the range with a cross head screwdriver and a ballpeen...

 

[MarkL]

Wow, you're putting in more powder than recommended...no one's tried that before. Thanks for pushing the limit and proving Darwin right. Here's to hoping you don't blow up future weapons with innocent people about.

 

[MarkL]

....

 

[Redneck with a 40]

for Mark. The 357 revolver is a damn strong gun, I seriously doubt this will hurt anything.

 

[Johnny Guest]

I'll let this one slide for now - - -

- - But only because I found that 125 jacketed/6.0 gr. Unique load published in a current Lyman book.

Please read the floated entry at top of this forum entitled REQUIRED READ for those posting Extra HEAVY LOAD Information.

This has been hashed out mny times and it still stands. I'm not at all bashful about heavily editing entries about loads beyond published maximums. Occasionally, the entire thread is made to disappear. You can write about almost any load you wish, so long as the necessary warning is included. Without it, adios.

Johnny Guest
THR Staff
Handloading and Reloading moderator

 

[brentfoto]

Alliant has 125gr JSP with a Unique max topping out at 5.3gr, not 5.6. Velocity @5.3 is 1015fps.

Lyman 48th does have 6.0 Unique as max for 38 spec 125gr JHP. Velocity is listed as only 895fps.
There's a difference in JSP and JHP.

Lee has 5.3gr max of Unique with a velocity of 1015fps.

Maybe more is less.

 

[DMZ]

Alliant shows the 5.3 grain Unique as a .38 Special load.

Alliant shows the 5.6 grain Unique as a .38 +P load.

Speer #13 shows 5.7 gr of Unique as a max .38 Special load.

Speer # 13 shows 6.0 gr of Unique as a max .38 Special +P load. (I have loaded and fired this load hundreds of times in my Taurus 605 and can report it neither feels or sounds like a max load. UMC's 125 gr JHP .38 +P load has quite a bit more bark and bite)

Speer # 10 shows 5.9 gr of Unique as a max .38 Special +P load, they do not list a .38 Special load with Unique.

All are for 125gr jacketed bullets.

I find it quite rare when different published data sources are in agreement with the same caliber and bullet.

It is up to the individual to be prudent when working up loads and to compare data from different sources.

 

[Walkalong]

Interesting.....................