I got a red-light ticket from a camera. BS flag!

[FTF]

Any chance of fighting this thing? From reading online, my chances seem slim. It's 70 bucks. I guess one of the ways they manage to pull this crap in Georgia is to have a bunch of restrictions such as... it cannot count against your insurance, they can't take pictures from the front where your face may be seen. They also provide a bunch of info on the ticket, such as how long the yellow light was, pictures of where you were at the red light, how long it had been red, etc.... pretty good pics actually... I don't feel too bad knowing the guy to my right probably got one as well lol.

Well, I did it I guess. I don't remember it but the camera never lies, right?

Here is my plan:

I'm going to appeal regardless. The fine cannot exceed 70 bucks either way. I may have to pay 25 bucks court costs.

I am thinking of saying that I let someone else drive my car and I forgot who they were. Since it's not illegal in GA as far as I know to let someone else you barely know drive your car (as long as they have a license), and they don't have a picture of my face... I can win on this argument alone. I guess.

If I get near the court date and my conscience strikes I think I'm just going to ask the judge to make a 1.5 minute statement and just list the reasons I think it's BS and just generates revenue for the county... let him give me a fine, at least I tell them I'll never spend another dime in Marietta again!

Grrr... I feel so violated lol. I looked it up and the paper did an article on the intersection where I got my ticket. Since 2004 when the cameras were installed, accidents have gone UP considerably. So, arguably, the cameras didn't do a damn thing but make money

 

[Technosavant]

I would think that if you try the "I loaned out my car to I forget who," the judge will not only stick you for the fine in lieu of another, but he (or she) will also be VERY annoyed with you for wasting the court's time. It's just not plausible that you loaned it to somebody and forgot who was driving it.

They just put in a few of them here in the city where I live. Likewise, they are a municipal infraction only- no points are charged. They just activated the system a few days ago.

The red light cameras annoy me, but so long as they aren't points-generating offenses, I support them (provided there is some decent oversight). As much as we might wish, no city will ever post a cop doing nothing but red-light offenses.

You did the crime, now pay the fine.

 

[cane]

Sure, go ahead, say someone else was driving your car, remember you will be under oath. Perjury is a felony in every state.

 

[FTF]

In my opinion giving me a ticket from a camera isn't really something I should be answering for anyways. So my morals are not affected.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

interesting

that the option of aknowledging that you broke a law and paying for it seems unpalatable. sign of the times

 

[qlajlu]

Reminds me of the story that I'm sure you all have heard where a guy got a ticket in the mail and picture of his violation from Camera Cop. He sent back a picture of $5's, $10's, and $20's in U.S. currency that added up to the fine stated in the letter. About a week later he got a registered letter containing a picture of an Arrest Warrant which had his name on it.

Ya gotta give both sides credit for imagination.

 

[DontBurnMyFlag]

Hey yea this makes sense.

Lets lie, make a story up and get totally bent outta shape because you were wrong.

 

[No_Brakes23]

http://www.photoblocker.com/www/index.html

Use that for next time.

 

[FTF]

You all amaze me.

So, in your eyes, this is OK. In another thread, we have the proposed surveillance towers in the UK and that is met with extreme hostility. BUT, here we have basically a watchtower looking for crimes, of course, it's not a human looking at you, but a human did sign my ticket. So, in this case, since it's only (supposedly) looking for people running red lights, it is OK? Where is the line supposed to be drawn? When they actually TELL us that it's being used for something else?

I'm not wearing a tinfoil hat posting this. I think it's wrong. I think this is the first step... no, try the 10th or 11th step towards having cameras everywhere... to watch us and send us tickets in the mail for everything... jaywalking, speeding and I'm sure it will only stop at the "popular" infractions.

I offered two options. I should have implied the first one was sarcastic. The second one is what I am going to do. Pay my 25 bucks in court costs, get my 1.5 minutes to say my point and then take my additional 70 dollar fine. I'm already working on my little speech why I think these cameras are BS and just one more step towards making us accountable by totally removing the human aspect from everything. I'll get my fine and probably accomplish nothing, but I'm going to say my piece. Just figured I would say it on here first.

:banghead: Because I was wrong? Hell, if you ever slapped a 30 round mag in an SKS without enough US parts you were wrong too. I suppose everyone is just going to turn themselves in because they know they were wrong for stupid BS.

Surveillance cameras for everyone!!

 

[dragongoddess]

One has to give up their 5th amendment rights in these cases. You are also guilty and YOU must prove you are innocent. Totally contray to our system of justice. Let me guess you got a picture of your lic plate that was blown up and a picture of a vehicle that looks like yours. Is that right.

It seems to me that a picture of a lic plate not attached to your vehicle and a picture of a vehicle that looks like yours is not enough. They could have digitally produced that picture from another vehicle. These people after all have access to the vehicle database and can produce a picture with your plate number on it and say you committed the infraction.

 

[Manedwolf]

Some areas still have a loophole wherein if you ask for the officer who witnessed you speeding to be present at an appeal, they have to throw it out...because there was no officer present.

Check your local laws.

However, if you DID deliberately run a red light, not just the "oh crap, I couldn't see the light change over the oversized truck in front of me" that everyone does, I have no sympathy for you, having firsthand seen twisted wreckage resulting from someone doing that...and plowing into someone who was obeying traffic laws and likely got killed anyway.

 

[Gord]

Maybe a bit more detail - Manedwolf has said it better than I (though you shouldn't be driving blind through intersections behind panel trucks, either). But, on the face of it:

You ran a red light. The other light was green; you could very well have hit someone going through the intersection. Making comparisons to 922(r) compliance seems a bit of a stretch to me considering that having one too few domestic-manufacture parts in your gun tends to be slightly less potentially fatal for someone.

Why does it matter whether you were ticketed by a camera, or a human?

Chalk it up to experience, pay the stupid fine and be more alert next time. It's not the camera's fault you ran the light.

 

[qlajlu]

...if you ask for the officer who witnessed you speeding to be present at an appeal, they have to throw it out...because there was no officer present.

Won't work. The picture is evidence of a criminal act having been committed. Agreed, it is only a misdemeanor, but traffic laws are covered under the Criminal Codes all cities and states. The person signing the summons is acting as an "Officer of the Court."

 

[go_bang]

Okay, help me out here. On what legal basis can they charge you for the offense when they have no proof that YOU were the one actually driving the car? If you loan your car to someone, and that person gets pulled over for speeding, do you get the ticket? No. And if they cannot offer any evidence that you were driving, and under the 5th you don't have to tell them you were, how can they do anything other than dismiss the case?

The suggestions to lie about who was driving is just plain stupid. Opening yourself up to a perjury charge won't help matters.

Thankfully we don't have these wretched things where I live, but I'm having a hard time figuring out how The Man can really get this one to stick. Shy of figuring that most people will just pay it and carry on, that is.

 

[HankB]

The picture is evidence of a criminal act having been committed.

Pictures haven't been evidence since before the advent of Photoshop.

Were the cameras under computer control? Ever hear of hackers, backdoors, & computer viruses?

Does the government run the cameras, or did they hire a contractor? If the latter, does the contractor get a "cut" of the fines? If so, they contractor (and their employees) CANNOT be regarded as impartial.

Don't get me wrong, I have NO sympathy for red-light runners . . . but I have even less sympathy for what I consider suspect "evidence" produced which is tied to, shall, we say, revenue ehancement activities.

 

[gunsmith]

those cameras stink

they cause more rear end collisions then regular intersections, they are timed for a shorter yellow then regular intersections to increase revenue for the company that makes a percentage on the tickets ...oh btw

they have a picture of your face

 

[hankdatank1362]

Man, you've been having a real streak of bad luck in life here lately, FTF?

I hate to hear that, man.

My best guess is to plead guilty and face a reduced fine. Worked for about a dozen of my noise-ordinance tickets. (Did you know that while it carries no points, playing your music too loud can result in up to a $300 fine here in SC?) I always appeared in court, pled guilty, and paid about a third of the original fine.

Then cranked the gain on my amps and let my subs pound all the way out of the courthouse. I was a real SOB when I was young.

 

[razorburn]

If he doesn't remember, it was probably one of those situations where he was already halfway or mostly through the yellow intersection when it turns red. It's happened to everybody, no need to ham it up like he almost killed someone. Also, I'm not sure if this is nationwide, but at least in my area, a traffic infraction is a non-criminal offense. From this website, it looks to be nationwide, so it'd be incorrect to even call it a misdemeanor. I feel they're mostly there as an unofficial tax, to earn money for the local governments. http://faqs.chooselaw.com/faq-65-364.html
I guess I'd try to appeal, or find a traffic lawyer. It'll be more expensive to find a lawyer, but the information you'll learn about traffic camera laws might help out in all future run-ins with the camera too. Last time I got a ticket, I admitted guilt and went to explain circumstances. I showed up, there were about 20 other people there doing the same thing, and we got the fine reduced or dismissed without even really having to say anything. The judge asked us if we just didn't notice we were slightly speeding, I said yes, she dismissed the ticket, I paid court costs, and that was it.

 

[meef]

FTF:

You all amaze me.

Well FTF, while I find the whole Big Brother camera thing pretty offensive myself - I also find somebody posting on a public bulletin board the likelihood he plans to commit perjury in court rather amazing, too.

 

[mustang_gt_350]

I know of a MD state trooper who was driving his undercover car and got caught by the red light cam. Had to pay his fine.

It's 70.00 just be lucky no one was hurt and all that came out of this is a fine.

Just suck it up and pay it.
I like how everyone is a man until they have to admit they are wrong.

And on another note.
All of you who are againts those AWFUL CAMERA'S I bet it would be NO PROBLEM about them being there if somone had stolen your car and this camera would be the only evidence that you had of the person with your car, or if a loved one was struck by a car who was runing the light and it was a hit and run and this was the only way to link the driver to the accident.

 

[Zundfolge]

You all amaze me.

I agree that red light cameras (or any other sort of automated law enforcement device) are wrong and un-American.

However, lying to cover up something you did is just as wrong.

Now, if you want to fight the ticket on constitutional grounds or on grounds that we shouldn't be under surveillance than I back you 100%, but if you're going to lie to the judge then we part company.

Hell, I'd even quietly cheer if you were to do this (and no I'm not advocating it).

But if you're going to claim the moral high ground you have to actually be standing on the moral high ground, not in the ditch in front of it.

 

[Sistema1927]

In my opinion giving me a ticket from a camera isn't really something I should be answering for anyways. So my morals are not affected.

Situational ethics? I think that this could end up costing you much more than $70.

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? - Mark 8:36

 

[Pilgrim]

I am thinking of saying that I let someone else drive my car and I forgot who they were. Since it's not illegal in GA as far as I know to let someone else you barely know drive your car (as long as they have a license), and they don't have a picture of my face... I can win on this argument alone. I guess.

Sounds like good practice for when you get in a bad shooting. You can claim you loaned your gun out at the moment and forgot who you loaned it to.

Pilgrim

 

[razorburn]

And on another note.
All of you who are againts those AWFUL CAMERA'S I bet it would be NO PROBLEM about them being there if somone had stolen your car and this camera would be the only evidence that you had of the person with your car, or if a loved one was struck by a car who was runing the light and it was a hit and run and this was the only way to link the driver to the accident

.

I believe they said it just photos and links the car, not the driver. If someone stole your car and this camera took a picture of them running a red light, it'll just send you a ticket for running a light. How's a random picture of your car without a picture of the thief going to help you?

 

[mustang_gt_350]

I think the MD cameras also take a front shot of the car/driver as well, maybe I am wrong though.