I had a little run in with a school bus driver

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gamestalker

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I often pick up my grand daughters from the bus stop. I never go any where without my side arm either. So one day when picking up my grand daughter the bus driver got out of the bus and was literally yelling at me, and said he was calling the sheriff, cause I was wearing a gun. I didn't react to his anger, all I said was I'm here to pick up my grand daughter. So he told me he wouldn't let any of the children off the bus until LE arrived. When LE arrived, they asked me why I was at the bus stop. I told them I was picking up my 6 yr. old grand daughter. The bus driver confirmed he knew me, and that I was the grand dad. At that point the LEO informed the driver that as long as I wasn't on the bus, or within 1000' of a school, that he would just have to live with the fact that I am within my legal right to carry at the bus stop.

I don't OC when I pick the girls up, but my coat blew open and he saw it, Bingo!

GS
 
Keep a spare magazine in that coat pocket. Or a backup gun. Or anything heavy. Tends to keep the coat from flapping open in the breeze.

Does not work in hurricanes and the like.

Note the "tends to" phrasing.

I'm ambivalent about the driver's reaction. Keep in mind he's responsible for those kids. On the other hand, the "Zero Tolerance" mentality (EEK!) tends to make people weird.

Note the "tends to" phrasing.

Terry, 230RN
 
I meet the bus every Friday to pick up 2 of my grand daughters. I ALWAY open carry when I pick them up. I never approach the bus, letting my grand daughters come to me. I am on private property and have never had a problem from the bus driver.
 
Anyone with a CDL, including bus drivers, are now required to report suspicious activity to LE. Part of anti-terrorism efforts. This primarily deals with commercial drivers and trying to detect the movement of dirty bombs, poisons, or other toxic freight that could be used in a terror attack.

The threat, and fear of armed terrorists overpowering a school bus and taking hostages is certainly there. In this case it would appear that everyone involved did the right thing and all turned out just as it should have.
 
Anyone with a CDL, including bus drivers, are now required to report suspicious activity to LE.
Click to expand...

Ignoring the "now required" part (they are not required. Many have been trained and perhaps told to do so, but it is not a requirement.), what is suspicious about someone who has picked up his grandchild before, doing so again? Carrying a gun in Arizona is normal legal behavior.

However, refusing to release a child to their legal guardian...would that be kidnap?
 
Without really knowing the full story, it's hard to know if the Bus Driver over-reacted or errored on the side of safety for the kids. When I was a HS Hockey coach and rode the bus with the kids, policy was that the bus and the area immediately around it was considered school property, regardless of where it was, thus the same rules applied as if it was in the High School building itself. This applied to not only the students, but to any adults. Bus drivers, wanting to keep their job would get obstinate about following rules to the T. As a grandfather, I need to be on file at my grand-daughters school in order to pick her up. First time I went to help out my son by picking her up, it was a stand-off until he could be reached by phone.....even tho the person responsible has know me most all my life.
 
Again, I do not know Arizona law, but I do know that in some states, the possession of a gun at a school bus stop, even off site, is considered the same as carrying a gun on school grounds. Maybe GS can inform us.....


Here is an example.....
A person who exhibits any sword, sword cane, firearm, electric weapon or device, destructive device, or other weapon as defined in s. 790.001(13), including a razor blade, box cutter, or common pocketknife, except as authorized in support of school-sanctioned activities, in the presence of one or more persons in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner and not in lawful self-defense, at a school-sponsored event or on the grounds or facilities of any school, school bus, or school bus stop, or within 1,000 feet of the real property that comprises a public or private elementary school, middle school, or secondary school, during school hours or during the time of a sanctioned school activity, commits a felony of the third degree
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I agree he has a duty to look out for the safety of the children. But based on his over reactive behavior, it seemed as though he was more interested in trying to have me arrested. I simply just stood there waiting for LE to arrive and handle the situation. The LEO didn't even disarm me, in fact, he seemed rather annoyed by the bus drivers excited and arrogant demeanor. Oh yes, this driver was clearly wanting the LEO to make an arrest.

I had a similar situation a few years ago in a convenience store while getting a fountain drink. Myself, a LEO, and a California visitor were filling our cups when the California guy tapped the LEO on the shoulder and said, I'm visiting from California, this certainly can't be legal, you gonna do something about this guy? The LEO didn't say much, he shook his head and said, it's legal in our state to carry a gun. I didn't say a single word, and just went about my business while the visitor continued ranting at the LEO.

And yes, I always seem to have an unusual number of circumstances in my life. As I've said before on this forum, I clearly feel like I'm of the less than 1% of individuals. I'm a quiet man, I keep to myself, I behave as any law abiding citizen should, and I never try to attract attention to myself. I just feel like I'm wearing a big sign that says, TARGET ME

And just for the record, I've never been arrested for anything, ever, I don't know what hand cuffs feel like, haven't had a traffic citation in more than 25 years, I don't drink or take drugs, I don't know or associate with those who have a history of engaging in, or have engaged in illegal activity. I'm sorry if I seem offended by that remark, but no one can ever know what it feels like to walk in my shoes, until you've done so!! If there was something I could do to drop off the radar, I would have done so many years ago. The fact is, I just always seem to be in the wrong place, at the wrong time. Despite my efforts, things just seem to always happen to me.

And yes, it is perfectly legal to carry at a school bus stop in Arizona, OC or other wise.
Probably best if the mods close this thread, stick a fork in me, I'm done!

GS
 
I think Nevada is similar in laws around schools. My truck must commit multiple felonies a day as it has three pocket knives in it and I drive past schools and bus stops. I've often thought that small strong magnets in the ends of shirts and on front pockets somewhere would help keep accidental sightings from happening. While never having had anything said about open carry in stores, here in Las Vegas, I understand that the school community is often kind of crazy. My wife is a teacher. I expect the driver will get an 'atta boy' from his supervisor and most parents would be on his side, due to the concern about children and the scum running loose after them. Nothing meant against the OP, of course. I don't OC in tourist areas as the police have to investigate every call of 'man with a gun'. I don't think the OP did anything wrong, it was just a collision of two worlds.
 
gamestalker;

You did fine. The school bus driver was acting like an idiot. Just like your state, we have no such laws in mine that put some kind of aura around a school bus to keep armed citizens from picking up our kids. In fact, we can go onto school property to let them off and pick them up if we want... just have to have our gun concealed and stay in our vehicle when doing this.

And folks, please remember. The GFSZ law is federal. So unless your state has something similar, your local police are not obliged to enforce that law.
 
This would be understandable if the bus driver had never seen the OP before, but the fact that the OP has picked up his granddaughter from the same stop with the same bus and driver means this should not have been an issue. Glad to hear the sheriff's office agreed.
 
I don't OC in tourist areas as the police have to investigate every call of 'man with a gun'.
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And if that happened multiple times per day in every state (that allows OC) two things would happen:
1. Cops would get pretty tired of it, and start doing as the cop in post #11 did.
2. Citizens would eventually get the idea that a law abiding citizen OCing is no big deal.

Is there even one case of a mass shooter OCing? I can't imagine it. I would think they would keep their weapons hidden until they are ready to open fire. Element of surprise, and all.
 
I agree with orionengnr. To me, OC just screams "I'm a good guy or I wouldn't be showing my gun unless I was shooting it at you". Someone is only going to be openly carrying their firearm if they are so certain that they are law abiding and in the moral right that they don't mind if the world knows they have a gun. Yes, there are people who occasionally exercise poor judgement when OCing just to tick people off, but there are thousands and thousands people who OC responsibly daily and that is an important way to preserve our rights, but truly using them.
 
OC-ing anywhere there are schoolchildren is guaranteed to get a reaction due to recent events.

I have no problem with a CW weapon in these circumstances.
But the OC'er here stood on his 'rights' in this situation...
...to the detriment of those rights ...IMHO.
 
Okay, I'm a bit confused.
This is a pro gun rights website, isn't it?
If you want to keep her right you're supposed to exercise it, aren't you?
Is open carry legal in Arizona?
Are people who pick up their children day after day anything other than normal?
And if those people have firearms and use them in legal manners, isn't that exactly what our forefathers wanted us to be able to do?

Are we supposed to water down our own rights routinely to make this what, a better nation?

Maybe I typed the website wrong.
 
I don't think he stood on his own rights as much as the bus driver flipped out inappropriately.
If I read it right, he wasn't even OC'ing...just showed as his coat was blown open.
Nonetheless, the sight of a gun brought a lot of unwanted attention and this was with someone who was familiar with the OP.
Whether you want to deal with these kinds of interactions, and what you think its worth to you to OC vs CC is entirely up to each individual.
I personally have better things to do with my time than educate the ignorant through duress. I also have no wish to be on the receiving end of a hysterical "man with a gun" call, even if the police MIGHT or MIGHT NOT understand that a "man with a gun" is within his rights in most cases.
So I don't OC.

So how to educate the ignorant when they are willfully ignorant and the pervasive message through the media is "man with gun" = danger
 
MEHavey said:
OC-ing anywhere there are schoolchildren is guaranteed to get a reaction due to recent events.

I have no problem with a CW weapon in these circumstances.
But the OC'er here stood on his 'rights' in this situation...
...to the detriment of those rights ...IMHO.
Click to expand...
The OP was not OCing - he was CCing ineffectively.

Want to drive the zero-tolerance folks bug-nutty? Wear an empty holster everywhere you go....
 
AZ law states the following,
13-3102. Misconduct involving weapons; defenses; classification; definitions
A. A person commits misconduct involving weapons by knowingly:
...
12. Possessing a deadly weapon on school grounds; or
...
H. Subsection A, paragraph 12 of this section shall not apply to the possession of a:
1. Firearm that is not loaded and that is carried within a means of transportation under the control of an adult provided that if the adult leaves the means of transportation the firearm shall not be visible from the outside of the means of transportation and the means of transportation shall be locked.
2. Firearm for use on the school grounds in a program approved by a school.
3. Firearm by a person who possesses a certificate of firearms proficiency pursuant to section 13-3112, subsection T and who is authorized to carry a concealed firearm pursuant to the law enforcement officers safety act of 2004 (P.L. 108-277; 118 Stat. 865; 18 United States Code sections 926B and 926C).
...
M. For the purposes of this section:
...
4. "School" means a public or nonpublic kindergarten program, common school or high school.
5. "School grounds" means in, or on the grounds of, a school.
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Nothing about bus stops, no problem there. A CCW permit negates the 1000 foot rule as long as you aren't ON school grounds. We're working on getting these laws further improved. :)

To take it to the opposite end of extreme...wonder if a kidnapping complaint could be sworn out against the bus driver...just a thought...:rolleyes::neener:
 
Ya, I thought about filing a complaint, but I think that may have just provided the liberal media something to twist and further escalate something that didn't need to be.

As for Az, we can OC or CC without a permit. And my lawyer, who I consulted prior to wearing to the bus stop several years ago, informed me I was completely legal. Believe me when I say I watch me P's and Q's very carefully, I need my 2A rights, and I wouldn't do anything to jeopardize them.

As for what constitutes a bus stop, I really don't know. Where I live, which is a rural area, the bus stop can be a dirt road or any place the bus picks up or drops off. What I do know, is in our state, unless the school owns the property where the bus stop is located, or if the BS is within 1000' of school property, it's public domain and legal, same goes for our public transit system.

I'm guessing this guy never noticed prior to this event, I have always worn, and not always CC? Maybe he was having a bad day or something, kid may have puked on his bus, don't know.

Thanks for the info Armoredman! And yes we are working on changing some of these ridiculous laws that still exist in our wonderful Az.. We are getting there, and things keep getting better all the time. But I still think Az. has about the best 2A friendly laws around. It's great to just carry without having to think about whether I'm making a mistake or not.

I went to a school function one time and forgot to remove my holster, no one said anything, but I definitely got some looks.

Ya BDS, those coyotes are a real problem and concern. But I would rather deal with 4 leg threats any time, over a 2 leg maniac, that's for sure!

GS
 
it seemed as though he was more interested in trying to have me arrested.
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I didn't see that in your opening post. Could you expand on this? All I get from your opening post is that he let it be known that the safety of his child passengers was his topmost concern, and that he would not release any of them until a LEO was present. Overreacting? Possibly, but you didn't mention him saying anything about sending you to jail.

It sounds like both of you were within your rights. It also sounds like the exercising of those rights happened to clash at that moment. Believe it or not, that happens sometimes (just go to a Klan rally sometime if you've never seen that!)

Now, who's gonna "get over it" first?

Incidentally, education is usually more effective in promoting our cause than is filing complaints.

And just for the record, I've never been arrested for anything, ever, I don't know what hand cuffs feel like, haven't had a traffic citation in more than 25 years, I don't drink or take drugs, I don't know or associate with those who have a history of engaging in, or have engaged in illegal activity. I'm sorry if I seem offended by that remark, but no one can ever know what it feels like to walk in my shoes, until you've done so!! If there was something I could do to drop off the radar, I would have done so many years ago. The fact is, I just always seem to be in the wrong place, at the wrong time. Despite my efforts, things just seem to always happen to me.
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The above describes me to a tee. I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why it's so hard for people to stay out of the back seat of a patrol car. I do, however, know what cuffs feel like, as I had to be combat-cuffed in training. Had a brother that did drugs, even when we were both still living at home (often had to wait for him to finish his crack pipe in the bathroom so I could go in and shave before pinning on my badge and strapping on my sixgun!) I just currently draw even less attention than you do; part of that may be that the attention you draw is obtained by a practice that is still largely unlawful here (though I can't say I'd start OC right away were it to become legal. I'm sure I would at least in some restricted environments.)
 
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