i have never heard an anti spout BS like this before

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The key here is MODERN society and not the era in which our forefathers demanded our right to bear arms.

This guy is startlingly ignorant. Our forefathers (politically speaking, of course) did not "demand" the right to bear arms. Rights can't be demanded - you either have them or you don't. The key question is whether those rights can be exercised without the interference of either the government or other individuals, i.e. whether they are being (unjustly and/or illegally) infringed upon or not. The 2nd Amendment created NOTHING - it merely put a specific prohibition against government infringement of our right to keep and bear arms ("RKBA") into the most basic document of our government.

Oh, and the arrogance of speaking of the "modern" era is stunning. As if somehow the attitude that "this time it is different" means something - just like it has meant NOTHING in the past, simply because human nature is the only constant in this world. We are no better at controlling our baser instincts and our general nature than those who lived in the late 18th Century, merely because we have better technology. In fact, I'd argue that the great mass of people is actually LESS in control of themselves than the average person who lived then, simply because we've largely disposed of the religion-based morality which was taught and respected to a far greater degree back then. Moron. Stupid. Ignorant. Naive. Moron.

The reason that they picked assault rifles is ONLY because that was an easy target. I understand that statistically assault rifles are insignificant. THAT’S NOT THE POINT. The point is that this was an effort to retard the prevalence of guns in our society.

Well, I'll give him an "A" for honesty. However, in being honest he defeats his own cause. Stating (in somewhat different words) that the real reason for the AWB was as a first step toward the ultimate disarmament of civilians is confirmation of the worst fears of gun owners about governmental power and the purpose of "gun control." I just wish that Feinstein, Schumer, Brady, Kennedy, etc. would say similar things in public, as it would put a stake in the heart of gun control. Unfortunately, the last time that happened was when Feinswine slipped on 60 Forgeries with her famous "...Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in" quote.

we are beginning to recognize that the benefits once offered by these weapons are NO longer needed

He must obviously be talking about hunting or defense against Indians, because he cannot possibly be addressing the issue of crime or the big cahuna, deterring and/or fighting a domestic tyranny. I'll concede the first 2 - there aren't that many people who would starve without hunting, and there have been what, 1 or 2 Indian attacks in the last century? In that sense, times have certainly changed.

However, violent crime is not about to disappear. More to the point, the existence of guns (mostly handguns, I'll concede, as those are the easiest to carry and/or conceal) has deterred or defeated attempts at crime millions of times per year. Where there is "shall issue" legislation, crime has actually dropped faster than the national average.

Finally, this guy has completely ignored the issue of a domestic tyranny. The fact that we haven't had one imposed (i.e. a Nazi-style one, not the creeping Socialist one that we ARE experiencing) is both a result of and a tribute to the existence of guns - LOTS of guns - in the hands of civilians. Here, however, this guy is dead wrong - rifles are of critical importance. Handguns are generally of little utility against the forces of an occupying army (be it domestic or foreign) and, instead, the kudos have to go to rifles. Rifles can effectively reach out and wound or kill enemy soldiers or tyrants at ranges of several hundred yards (or far more in the hands of an expert armed with a precision piece of equipment), and are far more lethal than most handguns at the shorter ranges where handguns offer a higher probability of hitting the target. The rifle is the queen of the battlefield - according to no less an authority on guns than Col. Jeff Cooper - and the semi-automatic is the only generally available type of rifle which offers the volume of controlled fire that a true militia would need to fight an army of occupation. Among those, the military look-alike semi-autos are generally more rugged than the "hunting" type semi-autos, plus having the advantage of large magazines and plentiful spare parts availability. In 1776 the militia had the Kentucky Rifle, and in the modern era the equivalent is the military look-alike semi-auto rifle.

Times change people and so does the INTENT OF THE LAW.

If all that were important were the "intent" of the law, then why even bother with the Constitution? Seriously - why bother with a cumbersome written document setting forth a myriad of rules, when all it takes (according to this warped philosophy) is 5 black-robed justices to determine the content of the law? http://wavcentral.com/cgi-bin/log/log.cgi?id=2902&sound=/sounds/movies/AFishCalledWanda/a_hole.mp3

What this guy fails to state, probably because it is VERY "inconvenient" to his point of view, is that the very Constitution that he so obviously has no use for does, in fact, provide a well-known instrument for adjusting the law to changed times - amendment. Unfortunately for him, and very fortunately for the liberty-minded among us, it is very difficult to pass an amendment through Congress, and far more difficult to get 3/4 of the state legislatures to vote for it...which is precisely why this ignoramous doesn't mention it. Calling a Constitutional Convention, the only other means of amendment, is universally feared because of the possibility that many of the protections for our rights would be seriously eroded or completely stripped out of the document. No one sane wishes to take that gamble.

My attitude can be summed up by a quote from A.E. van Vogt's "The Weapon Shops of Isher"

The right to buy weapons is the right to be free
 
(if you don’t believe me then just look at a historical chart of the percentage of the population that bears arms)

Am I wrong or are there not 80 million people owning guns in the US?
 
(if you don’t believe me then just look at a historical chart of the percentage of the population that bears arms)

Am I wrong or are there not 80 million people owning guns in the US?
 
The point is that this was an effort to retard the prevalence of guns in our society. And it’s not just one or two individuals who are anti-guns. It is a holistic movement by our nation in which we are beginning to recognize that the benefits once offered by these weapons are NO longer needed(if you don’t believe me then just look at a historical chart of the percentage of the population that bears arms). It is nothing to be ashamed or scared of…if anything, it is something to be proud of…it can be seen as an evolutionary step that our country is taking.

Times change people and so does the INTENT OF THE LAW.


This guy is an idiot. This country is taking an evolutionary step downward. Come to my side of town at night. He will believe in the right to pack in after seeing first hand people getting robbed 1 block from a police station!

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/09/22/elderly.assault.ap/index.html

Kenneth Lew
 
We are no better at controlling our baser instincts and our general nature than those who lived in the late 18th Century, merely because we have better technology. In fact, I'd argue that the great mass of people is actually LESS in control of themselves than the average person who lived then
Sam, you forget that, to the hoplophobe, owning or carrying weapons is evidence of moral deficiency. Therefore, if fewer people do so, as he/she argues, we are clearly progressing toward a more just society. :rolleyes:

Great point about the "semi-automatic assault weapons." If the second amendment doesn't cover such, then what does it apply to? But no need to go into such detail. Military rifles are designed to fill a military role; hunting rifles are designed to fire just a few rounds under less demanding conditions. Therefore, military pattern rifles are obviously to be preferred. The hard part is selling people on the very idea of a militia or an armed populace. Of course, if someone tells you privately owned weapons would be useless against an invading army or tyrannical government, just ask them what is going on in Iraq, or ask them what Vietnam was all about. We can still win in Iraq, though.
[Rifles] are far more lethal than most handguns at the shorter ranges where handguns offer a higher probability of hitting the target.
Not sure what you mean about handguns having a higher probability of hitting the target. Anyway, wouldn't the lethality of a rifle or pistol bullet at close range depend on the bullet used? What if the rifle bullet just goes clear through?
 
This is reminiscent of the posts by the rabid anti-gunners on the liberal boards. Luckily, there a others on those same boards that argue well against the nannys. I wonder how long it will be before I'm caught as one of the level-headed 2A supporters on some of those boards. Until then, I'll keep fighting the good fight.
 
Yes, modern progressive societies demonstrate conclusively that only the police and military need high powered "assault rifles."

Civilians don't need them.
The government will protect them.

7.jpg
 
MOST people against the right to own guns never owned one/fired one (in my experience)

MOST people who are anti's have never been "violated" or had someone so close to them violated that they FELT it. (in my experience)

MOST people who are anti's FEEL rather than THINK - and since the feeling is "he/she won't hurt me" are the first to go ... since they have effectively put themselves in the position to be ruled/judged by the bad guy/bully/whatever's whims long before ANYTHING happens to them.

Thank god the government doesn't think this way - its amazing the difference force of any kind can make. W/o fireing a shot, one can disarm a situation just by showing the resolve to act. Something sheeple who think the police will be there instantly, and or the "fact" that if you co-operate you won't get hurt, don't get.

Bleh - does me no good to talk to the kettles here tho - we are (most of us) pots =)

heh

J/Tharg!
 
Finally, this guy has completely ignored the issue of a domestic tyranny. The fact that we haven't had one imposed

Yes we have: slavery, segregation at the end of a police baton, extermination or forced relocation of millions of Native Americans, internment of Japanese-Americans, McCarthyism and the Red Scare....
 
Fear of INANIMATE OBJECTS is a MENTAL ILLNESS! :neener:

Y'all are so right. The Constitution merely protects Rights which precede and supercede any government. No legislation or document can take away my rights. They can, however, remove the protection from those who exercise those rights. Only armed men are free!
 
MP5

I said, "Finally, this guy has completely ignored the issue of a domestic tyranny. The fact that we haven't had one imposed"

You said:
Yes we have: slavery, segregation at the end of a police baton, extermination or forced relocation of millions of Native Americans, internment of Japanese-Americans, McCarthyism and the Red Scare....

First, I was speaking of a generalized tyranny where EVERYONE would be victimized. Second, McCarthyism and the Red Scare were hardly episodes of tyranny. They are not to be admired, but they weren't tyrannies. Third, if the slaves, victims of segregation, the Indians and the Japanese-Americans had been better armed, maybe the results would have been different - which was, after all, the point of my statement (even if these specific incidents were no mentioned).
 
McCarthyism and the Red Scare....
heh. Not only was McCarthy right, he was a patriot. We could use another Joe McCarthy right about now to ferret out and shed the light of day on our domestic enemies.
 
Thank you, RileyMc,

To compare "McCarthyism" with tyranny is risible. What? A few Hollywood writers had to let thier nannies go? (Confession: I cribbed that from Coulter). He WAS right. Gub'mint at the time was riven with unrepentent Stalinists, fellow-travelers, and useful idiots.

Tyranny means bodies piled like cord word. It means basements full of skulls. It means greasy secret policemen skulking about turning your neighbors into informants against you. It means the Gulag and the laogai. It doesn't mean a few traitorous bureaucrats losing their security clearances.
 
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