"I Just Panicked"

[Cosmoline]

As far as the anti-gun letters to the editor at the ADN, I would not take those as indicative of any community sentiment. I think the prosecutor made a HUGE error in emphasizing how crazy the pastor was to have a firearm and alarm systems set up. Nearly everyone I know in that area packs.

What disturbs me about this shooting is the way the pastor simply emptied his revolver at the fleeing goblins. This may be an example of the "shoot to stop, not to kill" mantra going horribly wrong. If they're running away from you, you aren't supposed to keep shooting! Still, I wasn't there. The jury got to hear the evidence and inspect the scene. I trust them to be balanced on this case. I would not expect a Mat-Su jury to be anti-gun. I'd be shocked if the "gun nut" arguments play any role in their decision. We should hear the results soon. They're deliberating as of Friday.

 

[Cosmoline]

upon reading the rest of the thread...

????

What does religion have to do with this? Frankly it's a good idea to pack iron in the Mat-Su. It's the wild west up there. A handful of state troopers patrol an area the size of most Eastern states, full of folks who range from eccentric (myself included) to extremely dangerous (also, myself included )

The real issue here is which side of "the line" he was on. IMHO it depends on how dark the corridor was, how close the goblins were to him, and the angle of the shots. He certainly was right to be fearful. But whether or not he had a reasonable believe that his life was in imminent peril is another matter. We have juries to decide these things and, in this case, I trust a Mat-Su jury. I'd certainly trust them over the folks posting to this thread! Oy!

 

[BluesBear]

Let's put this back on topic

What we all should learn from this thread is that ANYONE can panic.
And I believe that's what happened here.

I have SEEN (with my own 4 eyes) uniformed police officers panic.
I have seen them both a) NOT fire when they clearly should have, and b) fire until theit weapon was dry.

The one word used to describe themselves in every case was PANIC.

Anyone can panic no matter what their experience, background or training.

No one knows, until they actually see the Elephant, exactly what they will do.

Everyone here should stop judging from the cheapseats and just remember the lesson taught in this incident.

ANYONE CAN PANIC. So let's just try and not let it be any of US. OK?

 

[ojibweindian]

ugly

How do you know they were shot "just for property"? You don't, you weren't there. Do you wanna take a chance on BG's in your house "just for property"? Prolly not, but you expect others to do so, I'll warrant.

I smell hypocrisy. I smell other things, too.

 

[Keith]

This is getting a bit .... ugly since religion has been introduced.

If I had known the thread would stray into religion, I'd have never started it! I will start another thread when the jury verdict comes back and I hope we can leave the mans religion out of it - please!

As the starter of the thread I request (again), that it be closed!

Keith

 

[grampster]

A. If the Goblins had not been breaking into the church they would not have been shot and killed. Occupational hazard IMHO.

B. If the Goblins had not been breaking into the church the pastor would not have been motivated to check the church out, carrying a handgun for his own personal safety. See A. above.

C. Regarding firearms, adrenelin, and good continuous training notwithstanding: Have shot, emptied, and reloaded twice, my shotgun while missing each time a spikehorn; not a very big spikehorn at that.
Have watched hunting companion (a hunter with 40 years experience) observe 10 point buck. Point .30/.30 lever action in general direction of buck and lever action every bullet unfired onto the ground. Then turn and ask why the deer did not fall over after "being shot" five times. Have a "friend" who shot a mannekin dressed as a hoodlum with a knife in its hand while answering a probable burglarly at a local playhouse prop warehouse. (Two in the heart at 12', dark room, only a flashlight, 2 good shots, if I say so myself, but being a modest man........cough ahem)

grampster

 

[Keith]

Well, since the thread refuses to die and can't be killed...

In Big Lake Alaska, the noises could have been anything - a bear is more likely than a burglar. And bears do break into buildings all the time up here! It's a very common situation.

And (again) this wasn't suburban Anchorage where a cop is fifteen minutes away. It's a big deal to call the troopers in to a rural village to investigate a "noise". Nobody should question the man responding to this himself. And nobody should question his carrying a .44 mag, since bears are more common than burglars.

And I'm curious if anyone feels a cop would have withheld his fire when these guys charged up the stairs in the dark, directly at him. I think if a more experienced person (an "unpanicked" person) had confronted these guys, the bodies would have been found on the stairs. His mistake was in not shooting soon enough!

Keith

 

[Quartus]

Have a "friend" who shot a mannekin dressed as a hoodlum with a knife in its hand while answering a probable burglarly at a local playhouse prop warehouse.

You and Lawdog need to get together and compare notes on the proper procedures for subduing mannequins. Hmmm. Just what DID they teach on that in the Academy?



Keith, the two up the stairs look like a good shoot to me - they were moving fast in his direction in the dark.

The guy through the window looks a little flakey to me, though. BUT, as has been pointed out, the jury will get ALL the evidence, and probably tour the area too. IOW, they will have info that we don't. We'll see...

 

[Keith]

The guy through the window looks a little flakey to me, though

He didn't shoot anyone through the window. He shot two guys who were within two feet of him. One of them dropped on the spot and the other pushed past and ran out the door. He shot at him again through the window and missed.

So, the shots through the window have no bearing on the case that I can see.

Keith

Edited to add: The guy who ran away later died of the shot he took at close range - powder burns on his clothes and skin...

 

[Quartus]

My bad - I understood that, Keith, but I worded my comment poorly. As for having no bearing, I think it does in that it shows his state of mind - PANIC. But I DO see your point - the fatal shots were at close range where there was every reason to consider them a lethal threat, so the shoot should be okay.


Stlll, this isn't exactly the kind of conduct that looks good for CCW.

He was a thug for putting all of society in jeopardy by buying a gun and going home with it, disdaining training and practice to the damnation of all others.

Thug he is NOT. He's not a common criminal. Now, if you were to call him an IDIOT, I'd be hard pressed to disagree.

 

[grampster]

Jury found him "Not Guilty" on all counts today. There is justice in Alaska and it has been dealt around fair and square.

Quartus
Mannequin 101 was not taught in the Academy till sometime after I had passed through.

grampster

 

[Don Gwinn]

This one has indeed gone on far too long. We do not do religious debates, and we sure don't do personal attacks.

Expect PMs.