Min
Member
Held one at the store. New 9mm with 15-rd mag is $289. With that price it's easy to like.
I kinda like the S & W Sigma pistol
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Black Majik
Member
::hands you flame suit::
KaceCoyote
Member
I think it was cruffler that said they were really not that bad?
CajunBass
Member
I like 'em too, but what do I know? I've got a Kel-Tec, AND a Hi-Point. 
Why do people not like this gun? Specific reasons, please. Hearing "It sucks" really doesn't help explain why. Is it the accuracy? Is there a mechanical or frame issue? FTE/FTFs? What?
Please don't start a "buy a glock/hk/sig/cz/beretta/1911/XD instead" thread. Just wondering specifically what the negative issue(s) with the SW9VE are...
Please don't start a "buy a glock/hk/sig/cz/beretta/1911/XD instead" thread. Just wondering specifically what the negative issue(s) with the SW9VE are...
dasmi
Member
The trigger. It sucks.
If you do a little research, you'll find that a lot of folks are not liking to them. Since I don't own one or even shot one, I can't really give you an opinion. However, if you are liking it, IMO, have at it. Noone's opinion should matter but your own. If you do get one, post your shooting experiences. It will be interesting to see if it works out for you.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Bullet Bob
Member
I've had an S&W Sigma "value" model in 9mm for quite a few years now, never had a problem of any sort. Most of the early ones I heard about that did have problems seemed to be .40 caliber. Mine is grey plastic and stainless steel, fits my hand well, and the trigger isn't a problem for me in defensive shooting practice. It's my "car gun".
Hawgleg44
Member
Well, I either own or have owned two 5906's, two 6906's, two 3913's, 910, 5943, 3953, 3954, 6946, two 645's, 4506, 457, SW9VE, two SW9F's, SW40F, SW40V, SW40VE, SW40G and an SW357V. Out of them all, and many tens of thousands of rounds downrange, I've had one, yes ONE FTE in the SW40F. No other malfunctions of any kind, whatsoever.
Triggers bad? Some people don't like the Sigma trigger. I don't mind it. S&W TDA's are good, but their 3rd Generation DAO's is where they really shine. Since the hammer is cocked half way by the slide, the trigger pull is short (about the same length of pull as a Glock, without the "spongy" feel to it), smooth and crisp.
It's just like anything else. Some people like them, some don't. But, I'll put my S&W autos right up there with my Sig P220 for durability, accuracy and reliability.
Triggers bad? Some people don't like the Sigma trigger. I don't mind it. S&W TDA's are good, but their 3rd Generation DAO's is where they really shine. Since the hammer is cocked half way by the slide, the trigger pull is short (about the same length of pull as a Glock, without the "spongy" feel to it), smooth and crisp.
It's just like anything else. Some people like them, some don't. But, I'll put my S&W autos right up there with my Sig P220 for durability, accuracy and reliability.
It is my understanding that many years ago, they had a large number of guns with mechanical problems. I can't get over the guns history. I have heard some say they love the gun, but personally, I would never buy one.
If you have a low amount of $, buy a Ruger or a Taurus 92.
If you have a low amount of $, buy a Ruger or a Taurus 92.
bpisler
Member
I liked mine,it was a SW9VE and i
put over 3,000 trouble free rounds
thru it.The trigger only sucks if
you never have fired some
type of D/A revolver.In fact the
trigger on mine was right at 8-9
lbs and very smooth when i had to
sell it.I think it's one of the
better 300 dollar pistols out
there right now.
put over 3,000 trouble free rounds
thru it.The trigger only sucks if
you never have fired some
type of D/A revolver.In fact the
trigger on mine was right at 8-9
lbs and very smooth when i had to
sell it.I think it's one of the
better 300 dollar pistols out
there right now.
nextjoe
Member
Bad triggers, and they're widely (and correctly) perceived as a lame Glock knock-off. They're not the WORST guns around, but you won't see them on any Top 10 lists.
Oh, and the little .380 had a slide made of some kind of pot-metal... A zinc alloy, if I recall correctly. That just oozes quality, doesn't it?
Oh, and the little .380 had a slide made of some kind of pot-metal... A zinc alloy, if I recall correctly. That just oozes quality, doesn't it?
Marshall
Member
I played with one at a gun store and thought it felt and looked cheaply made and, the trigger did indeed suck. For little more money you can buy an XD.
Hawgleg44
Member
This is kind of funny. Every time the Sigma is mentioned, everyone starts whining about it being a "cheap" Glock knock-off, and they bring up the problems with the early Sigmas.
Instead of whining, here are the facts:
S&W recognized their problems with the early Sigmas. The former owners (Brits) forced the engineers to put the early Sigma into production when it really wasn't ready. Later, too much later IMO, they redesigned the Sigma and made many improvements to it. This resulted in a "Glock-type" pistol which is a vast improvement over the Glock.
-They lowered the ejection port which solved the ejection problems.
-They swapped from a chisel tip, loose tolerance striker system (like the ones that keep breaking for NYPD on their Glock 19's) to a close tolerance (everything within .002") round striker system. Not a single striker breakage reported since the "Enhanced" Series Sigma has been introduced.
-They completely redesigned the trigger system. No more misfires.
-They added the equipment rail. Not only is it perfect for a Streamlight M4, but it strengthened the front of the dust cover. Not a single frame crack reported since the new design.
-Simple changes like checkering on the grips and recontouring of the slide, and a loaded chamber indicator.
All this, with the most ergonomic grip angle I have ever felt. You don't have to break your wrist to shoot it like you do with a Gluck. And, it has cut rifling and MUCH more chamber support so reloads and cast bullets are completely safe. Hmmm, never heard of a Sigma "Kaboom!"
Sure, you can call it a "cheap" knockoff. The only reason the price is so much lower than a Gluck is because S&W makes a quality product, with a lifetime warranty, and sells it for a modest profit. On the other hand, Glock sells something which is "perfect"
for a completely outrageous profit. You can't tell me that the plastic in a Glock costs $200 more than the plastic S&W uses!
But, this is going to turn into a huge P***ing match. Glock finatics are just that, finatical. All I'll say is "KABOOM!"
Instead of whining, here are the facts:
S&W recognized their problems with the early Sigmas. The former owners (Brits) forced the engineers to put the early Sigma into production when it really wasn't ready. Later, too much later IMO, they redesigned the Sigma and made many improvements to it. This resulted in a "Glock-type" pistol which is a vast improvement over the Glock.
-They lowered the ejection port which solved the ejection problems.
-They swapped from a chisel tip, loose tolerance striker system (like the ones that keep breaking for NYPD on their Glock 19's) to a close tolerance (everything within .002") round striker system. Not a single striker breakage reported since the "Enhanced" Series Sigma has been introduced.
-They completely redesigned the trigger system. No more misfires.
-They added the equipment rail. Not only is it perfect for a Streamlight M4, but it strengthened the front of the dust cover. Not a single frame crack reported since the new design.
-Simple changes like checkering on the grips and recontouring of the slide, and a loaded chamber indicator.
All this, with the most ergonomic grip angle I have ever felt. You don't have to break your wrist to shoot it like you do with a Gluck. And, it has cut rifling and MUCH more chamber support so reloads and cast bullets are completely safe. Hmmm, never heard of a Sigma "Kaboom!"
Sure, you can call it a "cheap" knockoff. The only reason the price is so much lower than a Gluck is because S&W makes a quality product, with a lifetime warranty, and sells it for a modest profit. On the other hand, Glock sells something which is "perfect"
for a completely outrageous profit. You can't tell me that the plastic in a Glock costs $200 more than the plastic S&W uses!But, this is going to turn into a huge P***ing match. Glock finatics are just that, finatical. All I'll say is "KABOOM!"
Marshall
Member
I agree with your premise but if the Sigma is really quality and S&W's marketing approach is as you say, why does this little guy that they have had forever retail at $800.00? So, I have to believe the Sigma is indeed cheaply made or S&W's marketing approach is not as you say but I don't see how it can be both.
Wanna take any bets on this guy being modest like the Sigma's? I bet we see close to Glock prices on it. If it comes in priced like the Sigma, I'll buy your thinking.
I've fired a limited amount of ammo thru full sized Sigmas and while serviceable, I didn't find them all that ergonomic athough S&W supposedly put a lot of $ and time in making it so. I may buy one if I can get one used really cheap.
380 acp Sigma I had really sucked. Pot metal slide as mentioned, why would S&W put it's name on such a piece, was rated for like a 2000rd service life.
Many jams and an odd takedown procedure. Nasty little gun.
380 acp Sigma I had really sucked. Pot metal slide as mentioned, why would S&W put it's name on such a piece, was rated for like a 2000rd service life.
Many jams and an odd takedown procedure. Nasty little gun.
Hawgleg44
Member
Marshall-
Do you pay $800 for a CS45? I can go right down to the S&W Factory Store and buy ANYTHING there for far less than "suggested retail".
And, the original plan for the M&P was to have a suggested retail approx $100 BELOW that of the Glock.
I still don't understand why the Glock costs approx $200 more than a Sigma. If you put the NY disconnector in the Glock, it has the same trigger pull as the Sigma. So, you have an inferior designed Glock, with the same trigger pull, selling for $200 more? To make the Glock reliable, they had to throat the chamber out soooo much, that if a "gunsmith" did that to a 1911, everyone would be calling him a hack and that the gun was no longer safe. But, it's OK for Glock to do it to make their pistol "perfect"?
Do you pay $800 for a CS45? I can go right down to the S&W Factory Store and buy ANYTHING there for far less than "suggested retail".
And, the original plan for the M&P was to have a suggested retail approx $100 BELOW that of the Glock.
I still don't understand why the Glock costs approx $200 more than a Sigma. If you put the NY disconnector in the Glock, it has the same trigger pull as the Sigma. So, you have an inferior designed Glock, with the same trigger pull, selling for $200 more? To make the Glock reliable, they had to throat the chamber out soooo much, that if a "gunsmith" did that to a 1911, everyone would be calling him a hack and that the gun was no longer safe. But, it's OK for Glock to do it to make their pistol "perfect"?
FullEffect1911
Member
geez hawg,
i'm starting to think that maybe you don't like glocks? whats up with that? oh wait, nvm i like 1911's thats right, what was i thinking?
continue to dislike and i will continue to give you my support
PS sorry i can't really contribute to this thread, i don't own any plastic pistols. Although I do like my buddies XD fwiw.
i'm starting to think that maybe you don't like glocks? whats up with that? oh wait, nvm i like 1911's thats right, what was i thinking?
continue to dislike and i will continue to give you my support
PS sorry i can't really contribute to this thread, i don't own any plastic pistols. Although I do like my buddies XD fwiw.
Hawgleg44
Member
Funny you should mention that about me not liking Glocks. I've owned a 17, 19, 22 and 23 in the past. Traded them all.
But, I just responded to an ad on the S&W Forum and traded for a Glock 22 ! Not that I really wanted another Glock, but it was a deal that I just couldn't pass up. If I keep it, I'll shoot it mostly with the aftermarket .357 Sig barrel with more chamber support than the factory barrel and cut rifling. Also, I'll have to do the grip modification and add a beavertail to it to make it comfortable. If I shoot it in .40, I'll look for an aftermarket barrel which I feel will be much safer.
Or, if the right trade comes up, I'll just turn it into something that doesn't need custom work to make it into a comfortable, safe gun.
But, I just responded to an ad on the S&W Forum and traded for a Glock 22
! Not that I really wanted another Glock, but it was a deal that I just couldn't pass up. If I keep it, I'll shoot it mostly with the aftermarket .357 Sig barrel with more chamber support than the factory barrel and cut rifling. Also, I'll have to do the grip modification and add a beavertail to it to make it comfortable. If I shoot it in .40, I'll look for an aftermarket barrel which I feel will be much safer.Or, if the right trade comes up, I'll just turn it into something that doesn't need custom work to make it into a comfortable, safe gun.
MaterDei
Member
Sigmas break the mold. Normally, people criticize the guns they don't own and praise the ones they do. With the Sigma, its biggest detractors are owners/former owners.
Hi, I'm Mater D and I'm a former Sigma owner. This is the only gun I've ever gotten rid of. In addition to its horrid trigger it was a jamomatic. I only hope they are better today.
Hi, I'm Mater D and I'm a former Sigma owner. This is the only gun I've ever gotten rid of. In addition to its horrid trigger it was a jamomatic. I only hope they are better today.
atblis
Member
Sigma v. Glocks
Sigma isn't as bad as some make it out to be
The Glock isn't nearly as good as some people make it out to be
Personally I own neither so...
Sigma isn't as bad as some make it out to be
The Glock isn't nearly as good as some people make it out to be
Personally I own neither so...
Marshall
Member
Hawgleg,
Of course you don't pay retail of $800.00 for a CS-45 but you don't pay retail for a Sigma either. So, what's your point?
CS-45 = $650.00
Sigma = $289.00
Are you going to tell me it takes 125% more money to make a CS-45 over a Sigma? If so, the Sigma is cheaply made, if not, S&W marketing practices of selling guns at only moderate profits, as you suggest, is not true.
Bottom line, Smith wanted a low buck semi-auto, they made one. I think another $100.00 to 120.00 for an XD is well worth it. Glocks? I don't like them anyway so I don't have a dog in that fight.
Of course you don't pay retail of $800.00 for a CS-45 but you don't pay retail for a Sigma either. So, what's your point?
CS-45 = $650.00
Sigma = $289.00
Are you going to tell me it takes 125% more money to make a CS-45 over a Sigma? If so, the Sigma is cheaply made, if not, S&W marketing practices of selling guns at only moderate profits, as you suggest, is not true.
Bottom line, Smith wanted a low buck semi-auto, they made one. I think another $100.00 to 120.00 for an XD is well worth it. Glocks? I don't like them anyway so I don't have a dog in that fight.
ABBOBERG
Member
I sent my SW40VE back to the factory twice. Once for misfires due to the firing pin hitting way off center, and the second time for the same reason as the first time plus the case flange would get ahead of the extractor so the slide would not go fully into battery. On the second trip, they replaced the barrel and slide and I noticed a little "peep hole" that they added to the top of the barrel. This upgrade cured problem number two with Win and Fed ammo, but not with Cor-bon. Still had misfires due to the firing pin hitting way off center so I got rid of the thing.
Holiday
Member
Funny thing about Sigmas. Most of the detractors gipe and whine about the trigger. Then I hear folks gripe and whine that Glock triggers ar too light and there is concern for an AD. The truth is, the Sigmas DAO trigger is no worse than a revolver is. It ain't a slick 1911 trigger, but it makes a safe defensive gun. Yes, I own one. I also own a really nice Colt Commander. They are apples and oranges. If you don't like the Sigma, fine. Just don't trash a good pistol because you paid twice as much for some other polymer framed gun. As to Glocks, I won't trash them because I don't own one. I have owned three. They are good guns. I'm just not as happy with them as I am with other guns. It's a personal choice.
P.S.
Hawgleg, seen ya postin' over on the S&W site. Nice ta see a fellow Sigma man around!
P.S.
Hawgleg, seen ya postin' over on the S&W site. Nice ta see a fellow Sigma man around!
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