I may get a small carry sized gun after all- need input, esp. from S&W fans

[chaim]

Even though I am stuck in MD for another year I've decided that I want to plug one of the biggest holes in my "collection"- I want a CCW type auto. First, it is (other than the lack of a .22lr handgun) the biggest hole in the "collection". Second, even though I'm probably stuck here for another year, I will be visiting other areas to scout out graduate programs I may transfer to and I will soon have a FL non-resident permit that will be valid in many of those areas.

Mostly I am considering S&Ws because I've recently decided I like S&W autos (some S&Ws I've always liked) and all my Smiths are wheelguns. However, there are a couple others thrown in there.

For my price range I'd love to be in the $250-350 range (hence mostly used guns) though I may go to the $400-460 range.

Here is my list, let me know what you think of these options (though I may add one later I don't really need additional options):

-3-4" 1911. I love 1911s so it is an option, though a bit on the pricy side for my current situation (full-time graduate student). Due to finances if I go this way I'll either look long and hard for a great used deal or I'll get a Charles Daly (I love my full-size Daly 1911)

-used Kahr K9 if I can find one in my price range. Great CCW, great gun generally

-used SIG 239. Maybe. Sometimes I love these, and sometimes I'm not so sure. They do tend to be more pricy than some of the other options.

-new Bersa Thunder 9 or the identical Firestorm Mini-9 (if I can find one that is MD legal). I love my Bersa Thunder 380. These are now MD legal (built-in locks), though I haven't seen them locally yet. I'm looking on the auction sites but I need one with the lock and with a factory provided fired shell casing (usually most makers and distributors only send those with guns going to MD and NY so dealers elsewhere probably won't have a MD legal gun).

-new Taurus PT911. Nice little gun and still just big enough to be ok at the range

-used Taurus PT908. No longer made, single stack version of above (I assume it is more narrow)

-new S&W 910. Nice gun, a fair amount of good buzz. As good as the other S&Ws but the "value series" uses a cheaper finish, a few plastic parts and a righty only safety and you save quite a few bucks.

-new S&W 908. Single stack version of above. This or the Taurus PT911 are the most likely of the new guns (with the Bersa up there too if I find one that is MD legal).

-used S&W 910 or 908. Cheaper than new, but possible used headaches.

-used Beretta 8000. Don't know if I like it. Not the most popular Beretta. However, a local range has a former range rental at a decent price and it seems small enough (it might be just a little too wide though).

-used S&W 639. Seems like a neat gun. Second generation S&W autos started to become quite good. Second generation version of what may be the best 1st gen S&W auto (the 39). This, the S&W 908 and the 3913 (if I can find one at a good price) are the most likely of the used guns.

-used S&W 439. See above, this is the blued version of the stainless 639.

-used S&W 39. Best of the 1st gen S&W autos, great size. However, it may be too classic to become a carry piece when that is an option.

-used 3913, 3914... Nice guns. The 3rd generation S&Ws are great guns and this is the update of the 39. Probably go DA/SA 3913, though one of the DAOs may be nice.

-used 69xx series. 3.5" barrel, alloy frame carry gun but with a double stack and high-cap mags. This is the "dark horse" of the bunch. Probably not, but maybe.


One thing with all these guns is they are not the "micro" sized guns (maybe the 3" 1911 would be). Since I'll be here for a year it will get mostly range use and very little carry (it will only be carried when I'm out of state and legal to carry), but I do want something that is an honest carry gun.

 

[PCRCCW]

Hey buddy,
Ive had quite a few of your listed possibilities. The list is fairly comprehensive and diverse.

3-4" 1911..IMO, a great choice but the shorties have a reputation of not running like they should at times, just get a good one.
A 4" barrel is what most serious 1911 heads consider the min. length for effective velocity from most ACP ammo.

Kahrs are stellar and you can easily find on in your price range...check out gunsamerica.

Sig 239 another good choice...but Id take others first....smaller guns are out or sim. sized ones with more capacity.

Bersa, Ive shot a thunder for years...the mini is just a compact version.
10K plus rounds through this one and not a burp......very very easy on the wallet also.

PT911.....I dont have to tell you what I think of these.....LOVE EM.

S&W...the 39 and 68 series are better in my mind....less plastic and better finish than the 'budget" s&w's..the 4/9 series has plastic sights etc........
You can find a used one for a song.....Ive got a perfect 6946 laid away with a hi cap and novak nights for under 300$.....................

Additions..................

CZ PCR....same size as the PT911 and 6906 and fits the bill just as well as either. IMO, one of the best sizes vs capacities for a CCw...small enough to hide very very well, still shoot with a full grip and holds MANY bullets.

All great choices...........Shoot well

 

[Marko Kloos]

The P239 would be my first choice off your list, but I honestly have to say that the S&W 908 will do everything the P239 does, for a lot less money. It may not be quite as fancy, but it'll work.

The 908 is about the same size as the P239, and mine proved just as reliable. They are great little guns, and can be had used for half of what a new P239 would cost you. The grip is short and flat, so the gun conceals very well. The sights are good, the trigger is smooth, magazines are cheap enough, and the thing just works.

 

[chaim]

I do understand about the reliability issues of the 3" 1911. In some ways that makes now almost the perfect time to get one. Since I'll be stuck here another year I'll have plenty of time to test it out and replace anything on it that might need replacing. When I visiting in a state where I can carry I can always use my full-size 1911, CZ 75B and S&W 65LS (full-size or revolver only won't be so bad for short-term/vacation carry as opposed to full-time day in and day out carry) plus I do have a Taurus 85 I won't trade and a Bersa .380 that I probably won't (I like it a lot, but I might to help in getting a similar sized 9mm, especially if I get the 9mm Bersa/Firestorm).

I am thinking the reliability issues has me leaning towards a Charles Daly for now. I love my full-size and many people here and on 1911forum do too so I know they can make decent guns. Also, if many 3"s are bad then a disproportionate amount of those on the used market are probably lemons someone unloaded. Also, the Daly is less than the competition and if I did get a lemon that needed some money poured into it a $450 Daly (MD prices) would be far less annoying than the same with a $8-900 Kimber or SA compact. When I move to a CCW state I do plan to get a 4" Kimber Pro Carry II (I want an alloy 1911).

When others pose a similar question I too usually suggest a PCR or P01. However, there just aren't that many used PCRs around and I don't particularly like the P01. I also want something a little different. I love my CZ 75B and I may get another full-size before long so I want to add a bit of variety in the smaller gun. Also, I don't yet have a S&W auto and really would like to add one (I am leaning towards one of the S&W options right now).

I've actually bid on a used 908 on one of the auction sites and I'm currently the high bidder. I hadn't decided if it was what I wanted but the price was good. If I win I'll still probably pick one of the others as well (and finally having a S&W auto may make some of the non-S&W options and the PCR more likely since they'll only be for CCW sized gun and won't have to take into consideration my desire to add a S&W auto).

 

[cslinger]

You will not go wrong with a SIG period. I love my 239. It shoots like a full size pistol and is very easy to conceal.

That being said, I have heard many great things about the Smith 3913 and the 908 looks about the same. The only thing I can't deal with on Smiths is the magazine disconnect. Not really a big issue I just don't like them.

I still stand by the fact that the ultimate carry gun is a lightweight small frame snubby revolver in .357.

What about the Glock minis? I don't care for Glocks all that much but those mini Glocks are awesome.

 

[ChuckB]

Hey, Chaim- I bought a Taurus 85UL because of you, and now you're talking about autos! I find my Taurus to be well-made, and VERY accurate. I shot a SIG 239 at the range today, comparing it to a Glock 19. I didn't like the Glock trigger, and it place all my shots about 2 inches right at 7 yards, no matter what I did (except aiming to the right). The SIG felt so solid in my hands, and shot the lights out of the bull. I also like the narrower profile over the Glock. Mr. Kloos above says that the Smith 908 has a similar profile to the SIG, and I'm going to take a look at that one, too. Good luck, Chaim!

Chuck (A little mazel goes a long way!)

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

Almost bought a 908, but so happy I didn't. I got the type M Beretta which is a beautiful carry gun. Slender, single stack and accurate. You didn't mention the 9000S which is great in a 9mm. For S&W, I go for a revolver 64 3" or 686 3" if you can find it. I don't like the S&W pistols....

 

[Drifting Fate]

The Smith's are under rated guns, IMHO. At least, the third generation ones are. The bad rep they have seems to stem from the first two gens. I've always had a soft spot for the 3913 and it's brothers. If you don't mind DA with a slide mounted safety, it's pretty hard to go wrong here.

The Sig is also a nice choice, and the reputation speaks for itself.

Kahrs are nice. Trigger is different. I guess it just depends what you are used to.

Taurus has their followers, but I think you have better guns listed here.

I personally would not get a Bersa.

The standard 1911 gremlins aside, the shorter a barrel you go, conventional wisdom says the less reliable the cycling is. A lot of that is due to decreased slide mass vs. heavier recoil spring. That said, my LW Officers is one of the most reliable 1911's I've owned. That may or may not say something. I wouldn't go as short as a 3", and a 4" is a very good compromise between full sized and a hide-away.

 

[SouthpawShootr]

My all time favorite S&W auto is the 6906. I've had 2 (still have the second one and it will never leave my possession). I can't remember ever having a malfunction with either. Both were very accurate and fit my hand well. Factory 12 round mags are plentiful and cheap.

Second on the list is 3913. It's essentially a narrower/lower capacity version of the 6906. Everything else is just about the same. Just a little easier to hide, but not enough to justify the loss of 4 rounds.

The 908 is a good choice also, being a slightly cheaper but no less quality version of the 3913.

Another S&W I like is the 457.

 

[Bravo11]

I just got a Sig 239 and I really like it.
I also like the Taurus PT111 and the Sprng Fld XD.

 

[Deepdiver]

I've got a SW 457 (compact 45) and it is an excellent gun. I use it for CCW carry at times..as it is a little smaller and lighter than my SA Champion.

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

I'd second the call for the Glock 26, also the S&W 686 comes in the snubbie models too. The weight will go a long way in controlling recoil. Everyone has already given you a lot of great suggestions so go with whatever feels best in your hands, and check out what's out there in used. I got a used 686 4" and haven't had problems with it, but I understand your hesistation; my father had the same concerns when I suggested the same thing to him. On the other hand, you get a used snubbie revolver and someone has already done the work of breaking in the trigger for you. Something to think about...

 

[coldshot03/04]

Kel Tec P11.

 

[Arts]

Check out the S&W CS9 in 9MM. 3" barrel and weighs 23 oz.

 

[COK]

I am happy with the CS9 - about 700rds through one with no complaints.

 

[Old Pa]

This S&W fan (revolvers only - pre kiddie lock) votes for a MP9 Kahr. In a class by itself as a CCW pistol.

 

[chaim]

What about the Glock minis? I don't care for Glocks all that much but those mini Glocks are awesome.

cslinger,

The Glock that I'm most likely to eventually buy is the 26, however I do prefer metal to plastic and right now I want metal. Maybe one of the next small guns will be a Glock. I keep wanting to try them, but I just don't like them enough to make them a priority.

Hey, Chaim- I bought a Taurus 85UL because of you

Glad I could help Chuck

and now you're talking about autos!

No one ever said you can like only one. I absolutely love wheelguns. I tend to prefer them, however I haven't bought an auto in over a year (and I do want at least one good option from each for carry when that becomes an option).

You didn't mention the 9000S which is great in a 9mm. For S&W, I go for a revolver 64 3" or 686 3" if you can find it. I don't like the S&W pistols....

Mastrogiacomo,

Well, the 9000 might be interesting but it won't be an option until I leave MD. I haven't seen one around here new for many months and no new ones can be brought in (no built-in lock). Being a newish design there aren't many on the used market just yet. Also, I do want to primarily look into metal guns for now.

You are on a good track to be getting into S&W revolvers. I absolutely love them, esp. a K-frame (I have two S&W K-frames and an L-frame). I have a 3" 65LS right now and I may sell or trade my Colt Police Positive Special for another 3" K-frame. I plan to alternate between two or three primary carries when I get to a CCW state (probably one or two 3" K-frames, a 1911 and/or CZ and a Kahr/S&W/Glock/Taurus, whatever). Then there are the backups (probably one or two wheelguns and an auto or two). As for the 686, I have a 586 and while the L-frame would work I'd rather get the trimmer K-frame for carry duties.

If you don't mind DA with a slide mounted safety, it's pretty hard to go wrong here.

Drifting Fate, I like both SA and DA guns but I do hate slide mounted safeties. They should be in the right place (the frame) and work in the correct direction (down to fire, up for safe). Any decocker/safety DA gun I'll buy I would carry with the safety off as if it was just a decocker (I am perfectly comfortable with the idea of a DA revolver with no safety or DAO with no safety so why not- the longer and heavier DA trigger pull is a safety in and of itself).

My all time favorite S&W auto is the 6906

SouthpawShootr, how thick are they? I have come to find that I prefer thinner guns, at least for those that will someday be my carry guns (wheelguns being the exception here since their width is not in the grips and I will be carrying IWB so it won't add to the difficulty of concealment). I sold a very nice CZ 40B largely because it was way too wide (that was the biggest thing that kept me from really liking that gun).

I've got a SW 457 (compact 45) and it is an excellent gun.

Those are pretty nice too and I plan to someday own one. For now though I want either a 9mm or another 1911 (this time a small one).

Check out the S&W CS9 in 9MM.

Another one I want someday, but too much money for now.

MP9 Kahr

Whatever I decide now one or two versions of the Kahr are yet another that I will definately own someday.

 

[Poohgyrr]

The 908 & 3913 series are great little 9mm's.

 

[anapex]

Chaim, if you're interested in a 9000S a shop over in Glen Burnie has one for about $400. If you're interested give me a PM and I'll let you know the shop and give the best directions I can.

 

[mlk18]

I am also a (quiet) fan of S&W autos. I have a 5946 DAO 9mm and have owned numeroud other Smiths, including the 908 and 3914. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend any of them, but your being a revolver guy looking for a CCW; I would recommend the 3953. DAO with a beautiful trigger pull, good accuracy and very slim (thinner than a Glock 19 or Sig P239). You can find them for reasonable prices too ($300-350). The last place I knew had a stock pile of used police-trade-ins was Southern Ohio Gun, but only in their catalog not on their website.

mlk18

 

[The Reverend]

Compact/sub-compact autoloaders

I have or currently own several of the weapons on your list, most of which are good examples of quality manufacture. I do however have my personal preferences that I will share.

1) S&W handguns are usually good quality pieces that shoot well from the box. I have owned a 915 and currently own a 4506-1 and a 4516-2, all of which were or are very dependable firearms. Setting politics aside (which is difficult for some) I would not hesitate recommending any of the 3rd generation line-up. If anything, these pistols are typically overpriced at the retail point. Search the online auction sites for better deals and used examples.


2) SIGARMS manufacturers perhaps the finest quality combat handguns in the world, specifically the "classic" p-series. I have fired every example they make and currently own a P225 and a P226 both in 9mm. These weapons function as well as any custom arm and then they do that from the box. Accuracy, reliability, and excellent ergonomics are all tend to be pluses for these guns. Weaknesses are usually in the finish as holster wear is a common complaint. Price can also be a deterant to picking up one of these beauties, but again NIB examples can be found online if you are willing to look.

3) Kahr also makes a good firearm. I tend to lean to their all steel examples as a preference, but have heard that the "tupperwear" version are getting better and may actually have all the bugs worked out. The only complaint I have had with my particular example is in the reliability area. I have had some trouble with feeding hollowpoint ammo. I will hold back, until the "break-in period" :banghead: is completed.

Good hunting!

 

[bernie]

I have carried a 3913 TSW for several years now and it has always worked with not one hickup. I have not handled the 69 series, but you can always seem to find used ones at good prices. The 3913 and a Milt Sparks VersaMax 2 holster cause this pistol to practically disappear when you carry it.
The 3913 is accurate, reliable, small, and still uses a reasonably powerful cartridge.

 

[benEzra]

My everyday CCW is a 3913LS (LadySmith version), and it's great. Never had a jam or failure of any sort in ~2000 rounds, and extremely accurate for a compact 9mm. Since the S&W 908 is basically a 3913 sans some of the cosmetic machine work (e.g., top of the slide is squared off rather than rounded like the 3913), it should be just as reliable since the internals are the same. Either would be a great choice.

BTW, my sister has a CS9 and loves it, but you aren't too likely to find one used.

 

[Handgun]

My favorite of all your choices is the 3913. I think it is an all around great gun. When I was carrying concealed on a regular basis it was my gun of choice (and I had/have a lot to choose from). (I don’t carry much anymore, and when I do it is a S&W 642 … which I think is the perfect gun for the occasional concealed carrier like myself.)

I like the 3913 better than the 6906 and in terms of handling and concealability. I own both and the extra bulk and slightly 2x4ish blocky-ness of the 6906 grip makes it less desirable in my opinion. I’d take a Glock 19 over a 6906 … extra couple of rounds and I like the grip better (flatter).

I also found that, in my hands at least, the 3913 is more accurate than the 6906 and the compact Sigs, 225/228/229/239, all of which I have owned at one point or another. I like the Sigs a lot, I just don't shoot them well.

I don’t like the S&W 908. I know that the S&W 908 is basically the same gun as the 3913 but I could never get myself to like it. To me it seems to lose that "slender advantage" the 3913 slide has over, say, a Glock 19. I know it is really mostly cosmetic but the 808 slide just seems bulkier to me. If I had a choice between the 908 and a Glock 19 for concealed carry I'd take the Glock. But I take the 3913 over the G19.

 

[Dorrin79]

I vote for the Kahr, given your criteria.

I'm beginning to lean towards trading my P11 towards a K9.