I need a low cost but functional and usable project gun.

[DasFriek]

Or im gonna have to branch out to a new hobby. Let me give you some details and i will try and be brief so you can see what would fit my personality and needs.
I own four guns, Three are for ccw and one is my HD shotgun.
My three ccw guns are a 5" 1911, A 3.5" 1911 both in .45acp and a Kahr MK9.
The shotty is a Mossberg 500SPX.

The 5" 1911 i just rebuilt from the ground up, I love it but i don't want to go threw that money pit system again. It was a fun project that put a hurting on me financially, But im single so i only hurt myself.
So my Officers 1911 will stay stock as will the MK9 as much as possible as i have added a few things to make them more functional to me.

The Mossberg came pretty Tactikool when i bought it and tbh its perfect for CQC with the short barrel and collapsible stock.

That sums up my current gun situation.
Ive also owned many .22lr pistols which bored me in 6 months, As did a Full blown bench-rest setup i built with a CZ 452 Ultra lux in .22lr also.
The caliber serves no purpose very much for me. Even plinking bores me as i have to do it at indoor ranges and outdoor ranges all supervised so i cant have fun shooting odd items.

What im looking for is a gun that most likely a center-fire pistol.
Rifles can only be shot half the year for me unless i can shoot it at 75' and call that fun at the indoor range. So im almost ruling them out.
It should use common and low to low'ish priced ammo.
It would be perfect if i could actually carry it as a bug and seeing how there is little chance of over using a bug in a firefight even a .25 caliber may be acceptable.
I know absolutely nothing about revolvers, But a little over a year ago i never knew anything about how a 1911 worked but no i could build one if i wanted too.
Ive never even shot a revolver.
So i must say a fixer upper may be fun.

I love auto loaders and the older the better, A 1903 hammerless and a few of the Red Commie issue guns spark my interest also.
Small .25 quality auto's are great.
Any 9mm pistol would be fun even if i couldn't carry it and could only be a range gun so im fine with that.

Id love to refurb an old riot,Trench or police 12 gauge pump as they are beautiful even unrestored. But price may be an issue here as these can be expensive.

I know im not interested in a few guns just because of when finished id have no use for them, And what ever i build i want to keep and shoot.

Im not apposed to ANY suggestion even if its a .22lr, Centerfire rifle, Or anything else i said may not interest me. I don't know what will until i see it.

But i don't want a Nagant revolver or Mosin or Enfield rifle.


My skills.
I got a Dremel and i know how to destroy any part at will with it, Sometimes i do fix parts with it tho.
Knowledge i have you guys and the Internet, With that combo i can build anything.
The gun should be whole and in working order or have parts readily available.
I have enough tools that i rebuilt that 1911 and hand fit each part so that should prove im ok there but may need special tools if they are not expensive.
I have too much time on my hands, Im doing this to keep my hands off my current guns.
Ill either refinish it with a bake on coating or send it out for bluing.
I prefer to work with metal than wood.

Price: $200-$300 depending on its shape, Anything more and i could just buy a new gun. Internet purchases are fine as i have a local FFL doing $20 transfers.

What you suggest?

 

[Zanad]

I'm not really sure how much of a project gun a revolver is, but look up an armscor revolver. This revolver is made by the same people who make RIA 1911's.

 

[Packman]

Doesn't fit your "common" ammo requirement, but check out Black Powder revolvers. They're inexpensive to acquire (200 gets you up and running) and cheap to feed (20ish cents per shot, if you buy everything commercially), and TONS OF FUN!

They can work very nicely as a project, or as the start of a new addiction.

 

[doc540]

Just a thought:

My latest project is a "PA-63, and it's simple to work on.

Bet it would look good doll'ed up with a refinished slide and a polished frame.
Marchal makes custom grips, too.

Like this: (not mine)

 

[DasFriek]

Thats a good deal on the Armscore revolver, But what would i do to it as a project gun?
I mean it being new doesnt give me alot to do, But it does look like fun to shoot tho.

Id have to think about the Black Powder revolver, Thats two completly differant worlds i know nothing about. Then id be working on it and im not so sure i should be trying to learn Black powder while reworking the gun.

I just visited J&G sales as i know many here buy from them.
I think i saw a PA63 and a few other models i cant remember. But the Makarovs and the Tokerov really peaked my interest. There is a thread here some where that a fellow member here guided me threw the field of guns that shoot that caliber and the Makarov gun itself.
Mostly i must say the Tokerov interests me with its pretty powerfull cartridge even tho i havent looked its specs up yet.
This is the one:
Yugo Tokarev M57 TT, 7.62x25
http://www.jgsales.com/product_info...good-condition-/cPath/16_235/products_id/4432

Really that dont even look to bad to even CCW with as i do it with all steel 1911's all the time.
But im still gonna look at the Mak offerings and the many varieties that shoot that round and the Mak gun.
Any of those all cleaned up, Smoothed out and polished and finished well and some handmade wood grips it would be a real looker and shooter and not cost a ton and give me alot on enjoyment.

I think i found all the ones in this field from J&G so if anyone could list the good and bad of each one and put a preference on any it may help.
CZ-82 Czech 9x18 Makarov
Yugo Tokarev M57 TT, 7.62x25 M-57
Bulgarian Makarov 9x18
PA-63

I know Zastava made a Tok like gun that shoots 9mm thats new on the market a year ago, That fits alot of my needs except its new and i dont want to go chopping up a new gun.

 

[mcdonl]

CRAP! SORRY... I didn't realize I was in the Handgun section.... Disregard the following if you are only interested in a handgun project.


Dasfreak... if you find a Norinco SKS you can use AK mags, get a cool stock for it and deck it all to be a fun tacti-cool shooter for less then $500 total. The gun will be about $300 and the rest 'o stuff a couple more if you keep it cheap.

OR - I just got a Saiga .223 and this kit.

Follow these instructions and you will spend about $600 but get an authentic Russian AKM in .223 (My caliber choice, you could go traditional.....)

This requires moderate skills and is fun!

 

[DasFriek]

Its ok, You meant well.
The main thing is i dont want to start with a new gun, Even tho most SKS's are used they dont look that bad even when they are in bad shape.
Ive actually built one up 20 years ago when the 30 round mags for them was new on the market, Lets just say they were junk back then.
I traded it in on a real pre-ban AK as it was like 3 months before it went into affect.
I wish i still had that original AK, Never an issue with one thats made as a whole gun instead of pieced together you see today.
But Siaga does a good job if you want a reliable one made with new parts.

Ill still be looking and hopefully get some feed back on these:

I think i found all the ones in this field from J&G so if anyone could list the good and bad of each one and put a preference on any it may help.
CZ-82 Czech 9x18 Makarov
Yugo Tokarev M57 TT, 7.62x25 M-57
Bulgarian Makarov 9x18
PA-63

 

[Shadow 7D]

Um, most of those are great choices, don't' know how much 'project' you are looking for

CZ-82, refinish,
DO NOT DISASSEMBLE THE TRIGGER/HAMMER GROUP
you will spend days putting it back together, or send it in a bag to CZ-USA for them to put back together. If you have the time and want, there are some great how to's, but it will be some work and if you do it wrong, you fail to install the sear spring, and will have major malfunctions.

Yugo Tok, um, not much to do really, other than degrease, maybe some Marschal grips, but that goes for all of these

Same as the yugo, maybe some refinishing?? spring if it need it

PA-63, change out the springs, work the trigger a bit and refinish, if it needs it. Most I have seen looked pretty mint.

 

[DasFriek]

Even tho most of those look fine finish wise, Im looking to put my files and dremel to work and re-profile some parts and bevel edges and generally smooth its looks out.
So they would be refinished also, Id really like to be able to start doing that as i don't like having my guns gone so long at the refinishers as it takes a lot of patience i don't have.

Of course some nice hand made slabs and all the internals fluffed and buffed and polished like good ole mom used to do.
I believe you on the trickiness of taking the 82 down, But how much harder is it than a 1911?

How about the effectiveness of the 9x18 vs the 7.62x25?
I know you can get hollow points in the Maks but what about the 7.62x25?

 

[Shadow 7D]

well what are you going to shoot at????
a range?
and lets be real here, this is what 99.9999999 of us shoot and will ever shoot
the tok with surplus corrosive ammo has a definite price efficiency

BUT for SD, the 9Mak is better with the variety of quality SD rounds, as you don't the massive over-penetration issues of the tok, that little round that can and will shoot through and through and through....

EDIT
the CZ takes down quick, it's faster than almost every other gun I have, just the COMPLETE disassembly should not be undertaken with out some fore thought and reading,
Surplusrilfe has a forum on Czech pistols, go read up a bit and you will find some great sources on how to do it, but you need to know how to do it first otherwise you will be the guy posting

"

CZ's SUCK
Mine went full auto then wouldn't shoot, I got it to work by banging it, but it was only DA and if I turned it upside down it went off"

:banghead:

 

[esquare]

Go down to academy and buy one of the cheaper rossi revolvers. (Or buy one ever cheaper, used, at the nearest pawn shop.) Take it apart and do a complete action job on it. Then take it to the range and when people turn their noses up at you, let them shoot it with that buttery-smooth trigger and ask them how much the SW cost.



Good luck.

BTW, when you take the side plate off of one of these double action revolvers and see the action work, you will think, "That's it? That's all there is to this?" They aren't nearly as complicated as many other things people work on.

 

[451 Detonics]

Id love to refurb an old riot,Trench or police 12 gauge pump as they are beautiful even unrestored. But price may be an issue here as these can be expensive.

It need not be depending on if you want original or replica. I wanted a Stevens 520 trench but the prices are very high on these so I bought a commercial gun, new wood, and a replica heat shield. So far I have under $300 in the project.

The shotgun....you can look at the stock and see why it was 80 bucks...lol. But mechanically it is great.



The wood, new and just oil finished from Numrich



The most expensive part...the heat shield from East Taylor



I have already talked to a smith who will hot blue for $100 if I do the prep and cut the barrel myself. So for about $400 I will have a correct replica of a WWII Stevens 520 Trench gun for about 1/4 the price. My inspiration for this was the movie "Dog Day Afternoon"

 

[trickyasafox]

summit gun broker has some nice SW K frames that would make a great project gun and run in the mid to high 200s. They also have some J frames in the same price range, and colt Police Positives.

38 special is a fairly reasonably priced, common round that would serve you well defensively and be a pleasure at the range. There is also a great sticky in the revolver forum about refinishing a smith from the ground up with explanations and photos. It might be just the thing you are looking for

 

[DasFriek]

Lots of good suggestions!
Ill admit im pretty darned good at trigger and action jobs, Even my $400 RIA CS Officer i just replaced the trigger as it was step serrated and met at a point in the middle and it felt like i a butter knife against my trigger finger while shooting. Just replacing that with a Quality Harrison Design trigger in IonBond black i then took the stock parts and removed all the parkerization of all the mating surfaces and squared it up and cleaned any tool marks and polished it well and it even feels just as good as my 1911 i rebuilt with all high end parts i hand fit and polished.
Sometimes even stock parts are just as good as high end ones if they can be cleaned up right.

That Trench gun looks amazing, You have any pics of it all together? Will you be shortening the barrel? I gotta admit a job like that sounds really fun and usefull as i could use a shotty downstairs at my house.

Ill do some research on the revolvers you guys mention, As long as spare parts are easy to be had even on a new gun its something id still consider. I say i need spare parts as im not a person that will say i don't make mistakes and have to buy a new part as i took one piece too far.
I do think id like to start with the most quality gun even if its a new Rossi versus a used S&W as in the end if i ever did sell it it would be nice to at least break even on the gun.
I dont know about Rossi, But Taurus who is owned by them you cant buy parts without a hassle sometimes. I could be wrong on that, So pls correct me if im wrong.

I still like the Tok, especially after seeing the power of the 7.62x25 round and its cheap surplus prices. But it would be helpfull if i could get hollow points, Has enyone seen those for this round?

 

[Shadow 7D]

yes, wold gold
PPU (privi partisan)
S&B

and us metric repackaging of the above, wolf is repacked S&B or PPU

 

[451 Detonics]

That Trench gun looks amazing, You have any pics of it all together? Will you be shortening the barrel? I gotta admit a job like that sounds really fun and usefull as i could use a shotty downstairs at my house.

It is waiting for me to get it to the smith for bluing...I want to drop it off in person and I won't be in that part of the state till next month.

The Stevens can be a tough gun to find but you could build any number of trench guns depending on what brand you can find a deal on. Stevens, Winchester, Ithica...just scout around and see what you can find.

 

[pikid89]

you could build a glock without using a single glock brand part lol

 

[451 Detonics]

That wouldn't be too hard but it would be expensive...

 

[19&41]

There were a series of articles by Reid Coffield in Shotgun News where he restomodified a S&W parts revolver he purchased from J&G Sales. I believe it was 3 articles with supplier listings and instructions.

 

[pikid89]

that jg sales Smith and wesson parts kit looks like a neat project...but where would one get an empty frame thats not wored out

 

[451 Detonics]

Not to mention that S&W kit is missing a couple of parts besides the frame...a couple of expensive parts...

 

[Jed Carter]

CZ 75 series pistol or the SP-01, eazy to refinish, some great to work on triggers and they need it. Or a Glock Frankenpistol, maybe a BHP resurection, or you could just cruise your favorite gunshops and get the worst looking pistol, most holster worn, thrown in the tool box, left under the truck seat, you can find.

 

[BCRider]

Das Friek, what sort of shop and shop tools do you have? Are you more interested in doing primarily external aesthetic work or do you have the stuff needed to make up stoning jigs and the measurement instruments to do this sort of thing accurately? Why I ask is because the knowledge is out there but it requires the tools and skills to be able to apply it.

Even replacing a part is an option if the thought of cutting out pieces from O-1 tool steel and shaping then heat treating the part prior to final polishing and stoning to fit and tune doesn't scare you off.

So I guess the question is what level of skill and tooling are you at? For example you say that your 1911 project cost a bundle. Is this because the tuning of the internals was done by buying drop in match grade kit's of parts or because you bought the stones and stoning jigs to do the work on your stock parts?