I need the truth about Speer Gold Dot .45 acp 200 +p performance

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Supertec

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I just came across something on the XD Talk forums that said for years that the speer 200 grain +p in .45 acp wasn't recommended as a carry load or as a duty load because it has failed numerous times to expand both in the lab and in officer involved shootings. From the tests I've seen on you tube I just find this crap hard to believe I mean seriously. someone please shed some truth and some light on this because i just can't believe it. i am carrying this load and i just think this has to be nonsense and i want real facts about this. This load functions flawlessly in my XD tactical and is super accurate. i would appreciate any input about this from people who know the truth about this especially from any kind of law enforcement officers and FBI agents. Thank you.
 
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Fact: Gold dots are good bullets that work as well as or better than other common hollow points

Fact: Even the bestest, most expensive bullets don't always perform as designed.

Fact: You're still punching at least .45 Caliber hole in the bad guy. Don't over-think it ;)
 
I'm not trying to over think it believe me but that garbage has to be referring to years ago or something because gold dots are some of the best stuff there is.
 
Here are your problems. First of all, very few police departments or documented shootings using this ammo exist, as it it is not mainstream, it is expensive, and departments will usually purchase Federal, Winchester, or Remington in bulk, for less money. Given that, there are darn few shootings in general, and few to none with any given +P .45 ammo. That is why you are getting little response here. I would ignore the internet crap about the 200gr +P; Speer Gold Dot is good stuff, and it will work just fine.
 
shed some light on this.
Don't know how much "light" I'll shed, but I'll pass on is my actual first hand experience with 200gr +P .45 Gold Dots:

Have fired less than a dozen of these from a box (23969) I got about three years ago, so this is very subjective.
They cycle fine through my full sized 1911.
They are at least as accurate as I can be with a 5" pistol.
They don't expand in my "test media" nearly as well as some other .45 hollow points.
They out penetrate that same other ammo in that media.
They leave my 5" bbl about 1015 fps.

They haven't shown me anything to warrant buying any more of them for carry/defense, but after my tiny bit of testing I can say that I'd not exactly dread having to use them and they just might be the .45 round I'd use if I ever decide to try to get a "big" bambi with the 1911 because of their extra penetration and some expansion.
 
FYI you can never go wrong with Black Talon Ammo.....
:rolleyes:
Well, there is proof that the advice that you receive on the 'net is worth what you pay for it...and sometimes less.
 
Who Knows maybe there's some partial truth to it. Good news is i also have Federal HST 230 +p and Winchester Ranger T in 230 +p. This stuff is considered Law Enforcement Only but it's perfectly legal and i know for a fact those loads do work and I have a bunch of it.
 
The first generation was six petal and it was OK. It penetrated very well and expanded marginally, though it was still a 45.

New stuff is seven petal and my first choice in 45ACP SD ammunition. I've tested a ton of it, bought 1,500 rds. a year ago. It's good stuff.
 
The truth about 200 grain Speer Gold Dot .45 ACP +P performance.

They work.

IME they penetrate about 12-14 inches in wild hogs when shot from Glock 21SF or Ruger P-90, expand to about 75 caliber, and are usually found in the gristle plate on the far side. This is about ideal bullet performance for self defense per the FBI.

I will bet you a dollar that these folks/internet commandos that say they aren't worth a darn have never been shot with one.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
 
Black Talons are pure evil.

On top of that since they are no longer produced (Under that name or with a black bullet) you do not commonly find them on the store shelves.

There are pictures posted on the internet of unexpanded Gold Dots in ballistic gel accompanied by some writer stating the are junk because the failed to expand. The writer has cherry picked the photo and failed to mention the test conditions.

However, having said that and despite the advances in technology, bullets are made by man. Man is (even though there are many who believe this does not apply to them, they are wrong BTW) an imperfect creature. Hence nothing made by man will be perfect. No matter what the quality, care, and craftsmanship that went into the production of the item there are examples that will not perform as designed.

Carry your Gold Dots with confidence. They are one of the better loads available. Besides it is a 45. Even if they don't expand they still do a lot of damage.
 
I need the truth about Speer Gold Dot .45 acp 200 +p performance

Well the internet may not be the right place to find out. Unless you can find some actual gelatin test data mostly what you will get here, and other forums, is personal opinion, occassionally backed up by one random example. And you can always find at least one example of a bullet failure to expand in almost any given load, but that doesn't make it a bad bullet.

Here's what I know. Speer makes decent bullets. A .45 caliber 200 grain JHP at .45 ACP +p velocities would meet all my requirements for a self defense load.
 
"I will bet you a dollar that these folks/internet commandos that say they aren't worth a darn have never been shot with one."

Sheesh. :banghead:
 
That link about the 200gr +P GD failing wasn't just written by some guy on the internet; Dr Gary Roberts is an expert in the field who evaluates ammo for a living for the military and law enforcement. That's not to say that he's infallible, but he has A LOT more credibility than some random tough guy on the internet.

Dr. Roberts is currently on staff at Stanford University Medical Center; this is a large teaching hospital and Level I Trauma center were he performs hospital dentistry and surgery. After completing his residency at Navy Hospital Oakland in 1989 while on active military duty, he studied at the Army Wound Ballistic Research Laboratory at the Letterman Army Institute of Research and became one of the first members of the International Wound Ballistic Association. Since then, he has been tasked with performing military, law enforcement, and privately funded independent wound ballistic testing and analysis. He remains a Navy Reserve officer and has recently served on the Joint Service Wound Ballistic IPT, as well as being a consultant to the Joint FBI-USMC munitions testing program and the TSWG MURG program. He is frequently asked to provide wound ballistic technical assistance to numerous U.S. and allied SOF units and organizations. In addition, he is a technical advisor to the Association of Firearms and Toolmark Examiners, as well as to a variety of Federal, State, and municipal law enforcement agencies. He has been a sworn Reserve Police Officer in the San Francisco Bay Area, where he now he serves in an LE training role.

A summary of ammo recommendations posted by him can be found here. Most Gold Dot loads perform really well, the 200gr +P just happens to be the exception.

I will bet you a dollar that these folks/internet commandos that say they aren't worth a darn have never been shot with one.

This is about the most meaningless statement in the history of everything. If somebody shoots at me I don't magically gain knowledge about anything except how much I don't want to be shot with anything.
 
My statement was meant to address the emphasis that people put on fancy ammo instead of shot placement. So many folks say, this ammo stinks, that cartridge stinks, etc. The 200 grain Speer Gold Dot .45 ACP +P is far superior to 230 FMJ, and to a lot of JHPs. Everybody I know who has been shot says it is way overrated.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
 
If I recall correctly, back about the time Speer was developing the .45GAP they also revised their 200gr GDHP.

This would have made sense, since the 200gr GDHP was anticipated to be a mainstay in their .45GAP line (although a couple of other manufacturers later found ways to use 230gr bullets, which are typically a much more popular bullet weight among LE users than the lighter 185/200gr bullets).

I thought I remembered reading that this was in response to some LE customer reports that the bullet might not be offering the desired consistent expansion in some instances. It's not unusual for ammunition companies to make ongoing revisions, refinements and improvements to their products, though, especially in the highly competitive (and lucrative) LE/Gov market.

I haven't seen much in the way of testing for that bullet weight since the time I heard about the supposed revision of the 200gr GDHP. Maybe if it were more popular it would be getting more attention in more places. (I know, it's popular among non-LE customers, especially those who frequent online firearms forums, but I mostly talk to LE instructors and trainers instead of commercial instructors.)

The last time I carried a CCI/Speer .45 ACP 200gr load it was the earlier JHP load (in both velocity ranges, as they revised that original load at least once that I can remember - reducing the velocity so it was easier on guns, I believe). ;)

Someone once gave me most of a case of the earlier .45 ACP 200gr GDHP +P load, and I used it for range ammo. I discovered a while that I still had a 50-rd box of it left over :scrutiny: , and I'd like to eventually get around to throwing it in my range mix at some point. (Use it for feeding & function testing purposes.)

I typically don't use much in the way of +P in my .45's, although I still have a supply of it from back when it was a short-term duty load (Winchester RA45TP 230gr +P, because Winchester didn't have any of the standard pressure RA45T available to ship at the time we placed an order, so they offered to substitute the +P for the standard load we wanted).

I'd worry more about whether the 200gr GDHP actually fed & functioned in my gun(s), in my hands, though.

I remember several years ago when I was helping a small agency get used to their brand new G30's. Their firearms guy had selected the Speer 200gr GDHP +P for their issue ammo. During the familiarization range day 5-6 of their folks experienced repeated stoppages. Coincidentally, some of the same folks expressed having a hard time dealing with the felt recoil in their guns.

While it wouldn't be among the top few choices of what I'd prefer to use in my .45's, as long as it worked in my guns, when I was shooting them under demanding conditions and drills, I'd not lose too much sleep over it. Mindset, skillset, shot placement & weapons maintenance are what occur much of my attention ...

Suit yourself, though. Why not? If you're making your own informed decision, you're the one who has to accept the consequences, right?
 
I was involved in a shooting a while back. The gun was a Springfield
Armory XD service .45acp. The ammunition was Speer Gold Dot
230 gr jhp. The bad guy was hit just above and to the left of the
heart. The bullet was a through and through and not fatal. While
the encounter was stopped, I felt the bullet performance could
have been better, then again maybe it was ok. Who kows?
I have since switched to a Sig Sauer P-226 in .357 Sig. I use
the 125gr "brown" talons in it.
 
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