I need your help!

[Silvanus]

I know this is a long post, but I'd appreciate it if you bear with me

To summarize the below message, it's basically a Sig P220 vs. FN FAL matter

A friend of mine is selling his small collection of firearms. A Taurus .357 6" revolver, a SIG P220 and an Argentine FN FAL para (the model with the collapsable stock).

I would love to buy both the Sig and the FAL, but right now I can barely afford one of the two. He would sell both to me for a good and similar price. But I can't decide what to buy. I really don't know what to do, so I'll just tell you what I know and you help me decide

The Sig looks a little worn (which I don't mind, it adds to the character for me) but is internally in excellent condition. He has only one magazine for it though and I think that's a "ProMag" or "National Magazine". And I have seen the gun malfunction at the range, but I suspect/hope it's due to the crappy magazine. Sig mags are expensive though, almost 50,-€ so I'd have to add about 100,-€ to the price he's asking (400,-€). I would get a nice shoulder holster with the gun too. He had it handmade in Afghanistan when he was over there with the Army (he and 9 other guys, this country really is small). .45 ACP is not exactly cheap, but I can (re)load my own ammo for the Sig, so that's not a big problem.

The FAL is in excellent condition too and of course totally reliable. Magazines are all over the place and very cheap (about 12,-€). Today I asked somebody at my range about the availability of surplus 7.62 NATO (you guys on this forum had me scared about that) but apperantly there is and will be plenty of it around, mostly from South-Africa and Portugal. I have reloading equipment, but not the right dies for 7.62 (,yet). I would get the rifle, as well as his rifle safe (I only have a small one for my pistols) for 500,-€, perhaps even 400,-€.


Here's what I already have, if that helps : Glock 17, FN/Browning HP, S&W 66/19/60/17 and Sig Mosquito.

You see I have a few handguns already, the only thing that's missing is a DA pistol and a .45 ACP pistol. The Sig would perfectly combine both of course And I've always wanted to own a real SIG (not including that Mosquito thing). I just love their centerfire pistols. New they cost over 1000,-€ , so this really is a good deal and a rare chance to get one.

But I also have no rifle yet, which really annoys me. I like both handguns and rifles equally (perhaps handguns a little more), but I found so many good deals on pistols and revolvers that I haven't had a chance to buy a rifle so far. And the ammo is expensive. I'm also a little afraid that in the future I might not be able to buy something like a FAL (or any military rifle) anymore. This is unlikely, our laws haven't changed (to the worse) so far, but still, I want one as soon as possible. And IMO, the FAL is the perfect all around rifle, I could do almost everything with it.



I just can't make up my mind: one day I want the Sig, the next day the FAL. The day after that simply a few cases of 9mm. I can't decide what to do...So you need to help me and tell me what I should buy. Any input would be much appreciated. And sorry for the long post, I'm not only unable to decide, but also bored right now

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

Someone will come along and tell you that you should buy the FAL before a Democrat gets elected and you can't get one any more. This person will be made of FAIL and covered in FAIL sauce. Make sure to point and laugh.

Since you don't have a rifle, I'd go for that. While both rifles and handguns are fun to shoot, I would say the difference between shooting the rifle and handgun would be more much noticable than getting another handgun.

I suspect the failures are due to the magazine, both Pro Mag and National Magazine mags are notorious for causing perfectly good guns to malfunction. You would definately be wise to replace them, so the high cost of mags there should definately be considered.

Good luck.

 

[takhtakaal]

Buy the FAL. The SIG is easier to find, and if you can't, a suitable replacement is easy to come up with.

 

[Acera]

Silvanus,

I will be that someone who comes along and tells you to buy the FAL. But unlike a previous poster suggests, I understand that (while we would like them to) people in Luxembourg worry little about American gun laws, and they don't apply to you. I doubt the coming presidential election here will have an impact on your legal situation. I like mine (FAL), and it will get you a different kind of firearm to take to the range. You can gain a lot more reach in you personal defense weapons.

Either way, you probably can't make a bad choice (other than passing on the deal, lol).

 

[Silvanus]

Thanks for the input so far

I doubt the coming presidential election here will have an impact on your legal situation.

That's not what I meant either. But (just like in the US) there have been a few crazy people who went on killing/shooting sprees in the public (mostly schools) in some European countries. Finland and Germany come to mind. I'm afraid that something similar could happen here and that the people will cry for more "gun controle"- Because right now, you can legally buy almost everything (including full-auto assault rifles).

 

[takhtakaal]

Silvanus, buy the FAL and the SIG and eat nothing but frites for a few months.

Here, we do that with instant ramen noodle soup.

 

[WinchesterAA]

There should be no question.. FAL.

 

[doc2rn]

I would fill in the gap by buying the FAL. You have enough pistols to fill that role, but long guns let you reach out and touch someone.

 

[yhtomit]

I'm with the "eat frites" comment. Do yourself a favor, though, and skip the mayo (disgusting, in my opinion on ANYTHING, on frites doubly so). Since this is your friend you're dealing with, you might be able to temp him with something of yours that you can offer as security, if you don't have all the cash to hand but want the guns ...

Also, perhaps you can enlighten us a bit on the gun laws in Luxembourg. (I know exactly one person from Luxembourg, the fiancee of a friend of mine.) How much hassle do you face to buy a gun, esp. in this sort of sale? How much do you pay for ammo?

timothy

 

[General Geoff]

I too am interested in the gun laws of Luxembourg. I've been told that they're outlawed completely to civilians, but please do educate us so we may learn otherwise...

 

[Soybomb]

Handguns are fun when you get into guns, but then you discover rifles and the fun really starts. Its time for you to join the rifle club.

 

[asknight]

From the sounds of it, your handgun base is well established and you could round out the cabinet with a rifle.

 

[Silvanus]

So the FAL it's going to be? You're probably all right that I "need" the FAL more than I need a new handgun.


BTW, I like my frites salted but otherwise pure, no mayonnaise (find it disgusting too) nor ketchup But that's still not an option unfortunately...Perhaps my friend doesn't find a buyer for his Sig though. I might be able to buy it sometime later.

Also, perhaps you can enlighten us a bit on the gun laws in Luxembourg. (I know exactly one person from Luxembourg, the fiancee of a friend of mine.) How much hassle do you face to buy a gun, esp. in this sort of sale? How much do you pay for ammo?

I too am interested in the gun laws of Luxembourg. I've been told that they're outlawed completely to civilians, but please do educate us so we may learn otherwise...

It is all a little complicated. I'll try to explain the best I can.

If you're a civilian, you are limited to shooting .22s for a year. After that you can shoot guns in any centerfire caliber. If you're in the military or law enforcement, you can immediately shoot centerfire guns.

I'll go step by step and tell you what you have to do to buy your FIRST firearm:

- be 18 years old
- become member of a shooting club (you have to anyway, you can't shoot in the forest or on your own property)
- go to the gun shop (or a private person who wants to sell a gun) and buy a gun
- sent in all the information they need (personal info, gun you want to buy, proof of the membership in a club, ect.)
- go to an interview with a police officer (this really is a joke, he asks some standard questions "do you take drugs" "do you have any metal illness" ,ect. , if that person was a real psychologist I would understand it, but he/she isn't...)
- wait (a few months usually) for your firearms license to arrive
- go pick up the gun from the shop


Now if you already bought your first firearm(s), it goes a lot faster:

- buy gun
- sent in paperwork (the gun shop does this btw, you don't have to bother with that)
- wait 2-3 weeks for your new permit to arrive
- pick up gun


Now to what is allowed to own...This is the tricky part. There's a big difference between having a firearm inscribed on your firearms license OR having it "en détention". The former means you can shoot it, the latter is for collecting ONLY. That means you can have the gun (and even ammo for it) at home, but you are not allowed to take it anywhere to shoot it.


Guns you can own to shoot:

- all semi-auto pistols and all revolvers
- all bolt-action rifles
- all double barrel skeet-shotguns
- all semi-auto rifles (military style or not, it doesn't matter)
- calibers from .17hmr to .50 BMG, only the range's rules will restrict you

Guns you can own for collecting:

- everything Fully-automatic (or converted to semi) AK-47, M16, Glock 18, Stgw44, Thompson... I've seen basically everything at the gun shop already. Even Browning .30 caliber mashine guns and MG34s. But as long as they are fully-automatic, you cannot shoot them, only have them at home.

You can have them converted though. If the gun is rendered semi-auto only by some simple mechanical changes, you can have it on your shooting license. There are no importation restrictions on any guns either. A full-auto Russian AK-47 for example costs 500-650,-€ depending on the condition. Glock 18 can be had for just under 1000,-€.

- suppressors

But why would you buy a suppressor anyway? To shoot in the woods without attracting any unwanted attention Most people don't care if you're allowed to shoot them or not.

- SMGs

I honestly have no idea why you can't shoot them. They must be evil or something. Even if they are semi-automatic, you cannot have them on your shooting license But SBRs (there is no such "official" category here) are allowed to shoot. I can buy a semi-auto Krinkov or AR-15 with a 10" barrel and shoot it at the range. But no UZI or Sten or anything. That really sucks

- pump-action shotguns

Not allowed to shoot anymore, since a police officer was shot and killed with one 20 years ago. Of course that shotgun was illegally bought in Belgium, but who cares? The politicians had to show the public that they "did something". This kind of thing is the reason I want to buy a military rifle NOW.


I know that difference between shooting and collecting is totally stupid. But that's how it is. I can live with it. I'm not interested in select fire guns. I only wish pump-action shotguns could be shot. I'd love to have one. But For collecting purposes only doesn't satisfy me



People have asked me about the gun laws in Luxembourg in PMs before. I wonder why so many people think guns are completely banned here? That's really surprising since we actually have some of the best gun laws in Europe. Only in Switzerland I think the poeple have the freedom to own and shoot the same or even more (they can shoot their select fire Sig 550s, right?) guns than we do in Luxembourg.

Carrying firearms is practically impossible though. Some people can get a concealed carry license. But for a normal civilian it's impossible

 

[asknight]

People have asked me about the gun laws in Luxembourg in PMs before. I wonder why so many people think guns are completely banned here?

Because with the de facto registration (by permit, per gun) it's only a matter of time before they're banned completely. By the stroke of a single pen, even.