I really just see the bigness of it all

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I only shoot 230 grain round nose, I believe that 230 is what the 45acp was designed for, but I could be wrong. That being said I load a lot of Xtreme and Berry's plated with good results. I shoot a lot of AR500 steel and you cannot beat plated bullets for steel, accurate enough and dissolve on impact with little to no splat back. Just beware that a lot of modern 45acp has small pistol primers instead of large pistol primer pockets.
 
I only shoot 230 grain round nose, I believe that 230 is what the 45acp was designed for, but I could be wrong. That being said I load a lot of Xtreme and Berry's plated with good results. I shoot a lot of AR500 steel and you cannot beat plated bullets for steel, accurate enough and dissolve on impact with little to no splat back. Just beware that a lot of modern 45acp has small pistol primers instead of large pistol primer pockets.
Very early on .45 ACP was designed for 200 grain, but soon standardized on 230. Most guns are setup to run around 230 grain, especially older 1911s.
 
I only shoot 230 grain round nose, I believe that 230 is what the 45acp was designed for, but I could be wrong. That being said I load a lot of Xtreme and Berry's plated with good results. I shoot a lot of AR500 steel and you cannot beat plated bullets for steel, accurate enough and dissolve on impact with little to no splat back. Just beware that a lot of modern 45acp has small pistol primers instead of large pistol primer pockets.

I do have some steel target I put on a sawhorse stand and I can see what jacketed bullets do to the wood. Plated and cast bullets are much better for steel. I don't do any high volume loading, so my process takes a bit more time inspecting cases and I have been able to sort the small primer cases out. I have given all of them away before I got into 45acp.

Very early on .45 ACP was designed for 200 grain, but soon standardized on 230. Most guns are setup to run around 230 grain, especially older 1911s.

I am starting with 200gr, but i will keep you statement in mind regarding setup. It probably would have been easier to start with 230gr to ensure reliable cycling, but with 200gr I will make sure I don't start with too low a velocity.
 
I do have some steel target I put on a sawhorse stand and I can see what jacketed bullets do to the wood. Plated and cast bullets are much better for steel. I don't do any high volume loading, so my process takes a bit more time inspecting cases and I have been able to sort the small primer cases out. I have given all of them away before I got into 45acp.



I am starting with 200gr, but i will keep you statement in mind regarding setup. It probably would have been easier to start with 230gr to ensure reliable cycling, but with 200gr I will make sure I don't start with too low a velocity.
As long as you stick with round nose profiles to start with I don't see why you would have any trouble feeding. The real trouble with some guns comes from SWC profiles. I used these for a long time until I picked up a few guns that didn't care for them at all. When I sat down and worked out the numbers, I was losing money from the increase in powder I was putting under the 200 grain bullets versus the 230s (which I understand is fairly small but it adds up). I also was taking into account the difference in price between 200s and 230s. Since you are not a high volume loader, these differences may not effect you as much.
 
As long as you stick with round nose profiles to start with I don't see why you would have any trouble feeding. The real trouble with some guns comes from SWC profiles. I used these for a long time until I picked up a few guns that didn't care for them at all. When I sat down and worked out the numbers, I was losing money from the increase in powder I was putting under the 200 grain bullets versus the 230s (which I understand is fairly small but it adds up). I also was taking into account the difference in price between 200s and 230s. Since you are not a high volume loader, these differences may not effect you as much.
For me bullets are normally the highest expense, followed by primers and then powder. Logic dictates that a 200gr bullet should be cheaper than a 230gr bullet, but obviously that is not always true. I keep track of all my cost and will adjust my bullet selection based on cost per round. I am not a high volume loader, but I do calculate my cost per box of 50 just to make sure the combination is not getting too expensive.
 
When I normally start new load combinations I will document what I am planning to load, and then evaluate and think about it for a few days before making a final decision. For the first 45acp loads I am doing the same and have put together possible starting loads. After I documented them the first time, some were adjusted based on previous experience in other calibers. This is what I have so far, with a few of them to be selected as the first loads:
Caliber: 45acp
Bullet: Berry's 200gr Round Shoulder
COL: 1.175" to 1.20" still need to decide
Primer: CCI300
Starting loads:
Bullseye 4.6gr
700X 4.8gr
HP38 5.2gr
Unique 5.8gr
BE86 5.9gr
CFEpistol 6.3gr
PowerPistol 6.6gr
Longshot 7.0gr

I am probably going to pick at least 5 of them to start with.

I also have a few 230gr bullets I received from Dudedog which will be loaded with HP-38 and a COL of 1.12". This COL passed the plunk test and cycled without any issues or setback.
 
I agree bullets are far and away the most costly items of the four, but the difference between 200 and 230 isn't that big. Just like it's not that big from 115 to 124 for 9mm or 150 to 168 for .30-caliber.
 
When I normally start new load combinations I will document what I am planning to load, and then evaluate and think about it for a few days before making a final decision. For the first 45acp loads I am doing the same and have put together possible starting loads. After I documented them the first time, some were adjusted based on previous experience in other calibers. This is what I have so far, with a few of them to be selected as the first loads:
Caliber: 45acp
Bullet: Berry's 200gr Round Shoulder
COL: 1.175" to 1.20" still need to decide
Primer: CCI300
Starting loads:
Bullseye 4.6gr
700X 4.8gr
HP38 5.2gr
Unique 5.8gr
BE86 5.9gr
CFEpistol 6.3gr
PowerPistol 6.6gr
Longshot 7.0gr

I am probably going to pick at least 5 of them to start with.

I also have a few 230gr bullets I received from Dudedog which will be loaded with HP-38 and a COL of 1.12". This COL passed the plunk test and cycled without any issues or setback.

For my 230 grain Xtremes I went out to 1.25 OAL. No problems. Real real close to my exact load on CFE P.
 
I also have a few 230gr bullets I received from Dudedog which will be loaded with HP-38 and a COL of 1.12". This COL passed the plunk test and cycled without any issues or setback.
If those are round nose, I have always loaded .45 ACP RN bullets at 1.260 to 1.265 OAL Unless it won't plunk, that is what I would suggest. 5.0 & 5.5 Grs of HP-38/W-231 are two classic favorites for 230 Grs. For years I shot 5.0 W-231 for plinkers and 5.5 for full power. After getting involved with THR I found out lots of folks had come up with the same loads over the years. That is over some data these days, but folks have shot tons of them at that level over the years. Some folks go with 5.2 or 5.3.
 
They were some of the old RMR 230gr Hardcore RNs, different profile than most 230 RNs and need to be seated short. ~1.2 in one of my .45s to be safe function wise. (1.22 in the other)
Long bearing surface short/blunt RN.
I liked both 4.7 and 5gr of HP38 with them. Both shot about the same accuracy wise, of course 4.7 was softer.
I don't believe RMR has those any more I just tossed them in to give vaalpens a couple 230grs to shoot to get an idea of how 230s feel compared to 200s.
Didn't have any more 230s on hand since I am looking for a new favorite .45 bullet since the RMR HCs are no longer available.

Side note: Lots of people like 185s and they can shoot well, but my guns just didn't seem to care for them as much as heavier bullets. (or I just didn't find the right load combo, didn't do a lot of work with them)
 
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If those are round nose, I have always loaded .45 ACP RN bullets at 1.260 to 1.265 OAL Unless it won't plunk, that is what I would suggest. 5.0 & 5.5 Grs of HP-38/W-231 are two classic favorites for 230 Grs. For years I shot 5.0 W-231 for plinkers and 5.5 for full power. After getting involved with THR I found out lots of folks had come up with the same loads over the years. That is over some data these days, but folks have shot tons of them at that level over the years. Some folks go with 5.2 or 5.3.
Thanks Walkalong. Yes, they are the RMR RN variety that is supposed to be seated a bit lower. I only have a few of those so I am following the advice from Dudedog when it comes to starting COL. The ogive is well outside the case mouth, so I am OK with a COL around 1.2" to 1.22". The low W-231/HP-38 load you have mentioned is where I will start. This will be a one load deal. No follow-up loads.
 
Starting loads:
Bullseye 4.6gr
700X 4.8gr
HP38 5.2gr
Unique 5.8gr
BE86 5.9gr
CFEpistol 6.3gr
PowerPistol 6.6gr
Longshot 7.0gr

I am probably going to pick at least 5 of them to start with.
You made me pull out my load data. :) Unless stated otherwise, all the numbers below were with Xtreme 200gn RN bullets.

Power Pistol was the first powder I tried in 45acp, since it was the powder that I had already been using in 9 and 40 with much success. I was disappointed with it in 45. I started with Xtreme 200 RN, seated to 1.260, and worked from 6.3 to 7.0gn of powder. I will add that I was using small primers for this test, and that may have had some affect on the results. It was not burning well at all, lots of unburned powder in the barrel, and just over 700fps at 7.0gn. Alliant's data shows a max charge of 8.3, for a Gold Dot 200gn seated to 1.200", but I never tried going any higher in charge. I had many people tell me that PP likes to be at the upper end of the charge range in 45acp.

I think 4.6gn is a good starting point for Bullseye, I had the best results at 5.0gn. I went as high as 5.4gn and got very consistent velocity, averaging 840fps.

HP38 - 5.2gn was my starting point, but it would not cycle my gun, and my gun (Witness steel frame 45, 4.5" barrel) likes soft loads. I seemed to get better results if I seated the bullets shorter, or worked up higher in charge, to about 5.8gn.

700x is a powder that worked very well for me, I just wish it would meter a little better. My favorite load with it was 5.0gn, which gave about 770fps.

I only did one load workup with Unique. I think your starting load of 5.8gn is a good point to start. My starting point was 6.4gn, where I got 852fps, so I think starting lower is a good idea.

BE86 is one of my favorite powders overall, and works well enough in 45acp. I got good standard deviations with it even at the lower charges, but it is dirty at the lower charges. My tests were with RMR plated 200s, that look and act just like Xtreme 200 RN for me. I went from 6.1 to 6.7gn, with a variety of primers (small pistol, small pistol magnum, small rifle, and large pistol) and 6.5 was my favorite number. FWIW, I did a comparison of primers at a charge of 6.3gn. I got the following:

Winchester large = 732fps, 13.3sd
Winchester small = 691fps, 12.5sd
Rem 6.5 = 712fps, 9.8sd.

CFE pistol I did not do a normal range of testing, but I found a good load at 7.2gn that gave 746fps. I had the bullets seated at 1.225" for this test.

I never tried Longshot.

A lot of the loads that I worked up in 45 were in my early days of reloading, and my methods have improved some since then. I did not do accuracy testing early on, and had just started using a chrono, so some of my workups were somewhat abbreviated and less thorough than what I like to do now. As standard procedure now, I do all my 45acp load workups with large primers (I don't care what anyone says, I have seen cases where it makes a huge difference). If I find a load I like, I then try it with small magnum primers, as I have found those to be closer to large primers in performance as compared to regular small primers.

I thought I would share this info with you for whatever it is worth. Your results are likely to vary from mine, and I am much interested to see your results.
 
Lots of great info on this thread. 230s are what I use the most.
I do load some 185 SWC plated or coated with 3.8 to 4.1gr Hodgdon Clays depending on what cycles reliably.
Makes a very economical and soft shooting load.
SWCs take bit of trial and error but they feed reliably for me with the right COL
 
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You made me pull out my load data. :) Unless stated otherwise, all the numbers below were with Xtreme 200gn RN bullets.

Power Pistol was the first powder I tried in 45acp, since it was the powder that I had already been using in 9 and 40 with much success. I was disappointed with it in 45. I started with Xtreme 200 RN, seated to 1.260, and worked from 6.3 to 7.0gn of powder. I will add that I was using small primers for this test, and that may have had some affect on the results. It was not burning well at all, lots of unburned powder in the barrel, and just over 700fps at 7.0gn. Alliant's data shows a max charge of 8.3, for a Gold Dot 200gn seated to 1.200", but I never tried going any higher in charge. I had many people tell me that PP likes to be at the upper end of the charge range in 45acp.

I think 4.6gn is a good starting point for Bullseye, I had the best results at 5.0gn. I went as high as 5.4gn and got very consistent velocity, averaging 840fps.

HP38 - 5.2gn was my starting point, but it would not cycle my gun, and my gun (Witness steel frame 45, 4.5" barrel) likes soft loads. I seemed to get better results if I seated the bullets shorter, or worked up higher in charge, to about 5.8gn.

700x is a powder that worked very well for me, I just wish it would meter a little better. My favorite load with it was 5.0gn, which gave about 770fps.

I only did one load workup with Unique. I think your starting load of 5.8gn is a good point to start. My starting point was 6.4gn, where I got 852fps, so I think starting lower is a good idea.

BE86 is one of my favorite powders overall, and works well enough in 45acp. I got good standard deviations with it even at the lower charges, but it is dirty at the lower charges. My tests were with RMR plated 200s, that look and act just like Xtreme 200 RN for me. I went from 6.1 to 6.7gn, with a variety of primers (small pistol, small pistol magnum, small rifle, and large pistol) and 6.5 was my favorite number. FWIW, I did a comparison of primers at a charge of 6.3gn. I got the following:

Winchester large = 732fps, 13.3sd
Winchester small = 691fps, 12.5sd
Rem 6.5 = 712fps, 9.8sd.

CFE pistol I did not do a normal range of testing, but I found a good load at 7.2gn that gave 746fps. I had the bullets seated at 1.225" for this test.

I never tried Longshot.

A lot of the loads that I worked up in 45 were in my early days of reloading, and my methods have improved some since then. I did not do accuracy testing early on, and had just started using a chrono, so some of my workups were somewhat abbreviated and less thorough than what I like to do now. As standard procedure now, I do all my 45acp load workups with large primers (I don't care what anyone says, I have seen cases where it makes a huge difference). If I find a load I like, I then try it with small magnum primers, as I have found those to be closer to large primers in performance as compared to regular small primers.

I thought I would share this info with you for whatever it is worth. Your results are likely to vary from mine, and I am much interested to see your results.

Toprudder, thanks for the detailed information you provided. The data you provided will definitely be used in the decision making process.

PowerPistol is also one of those powders I like especially in 9mm and would like to make it work in 45acp also. At this time I'm not concerned about how efficient it burns, bur rather that is cycles the tight new gun.

Bullseye is a known performer, so I think I will definitely include Bullseye as one of my first loads. For now I will stick with the 4.6gr starting load, but it seems I can increase it a bit if I want to ensure a reliable cycling the first time out.

I had high hopes for HP-38, so I probably need to rethink the 5.2gr starting load. HP-38 will definitely be one of the starting loads, but it seems I just need to decide where to start. My COL is low enough, so it should help.

700X is another know performer, but I am actually on my last container and not sure if I just want to keep the remainder of the powder for my 38spl loads, or start exploring 45acp also. Metering qualities don't bother me since I do most of my powder dispensing using a Lee dipper and beam scale.

Unique seems to be one of the powders that should also work, but I had to adjust the starting load from Lyman's 49th. They have a 4.0gr starting load targeting around 600fps. This is a bit low at this time and Unique normally takes more powder than HP-38 for the same velocity. I adjusted my Unique starting load upward, but making sure it was above HP-38 but below BE-86.

BE-86 is another powder I like. It is also supposed to be loaded towards the top end, but I have seen some accurate loads at the lower end in 40s&w, even though the ES/SD number were not great. I think your data confirms that I have a good starting load, as long as I use large primers.

CFE Pistol is one of those powders that are hard to judge. Your data shows that maybe my starting load is a bit low, but I would rather start with the Hodgdon load data MIN just to be on the safe side.

Longshot I just included since I always like to try it out for higher velocities at lower pressure. It will probably not be in the first load iteration.

So for now it seems they I have at least decided on Bullseye, BE-86, Unique, HP-38, and probably need to decide between CFE Pistol and Power Pistol, or just include both and go with 6 initial powders.
 
So for now it seems they I have at least decided on Bullseye, BE-86, Unique, HP-38, and probably need to decide between CFE Pistol and Power Pistol, or just include both and go with 6 initial powders.
Sounds like a plan!

Like I said, your results may vary. I don't want my info to rule out trying any of the powders you listed, but I thought at least it might help steer you towards a good starting point. I am one that likes having a little success early in the process.
 
I have decided to start with Bullseye, HP-38, Unique, BE-86, CFE Pistol and Power Pistol. I have not decided yet which load will be shot first and exactly what testing I want to do, but I know I will chrono 5 rounds from each load.

The following picture was taken during the load process. Not many pictures were taken since I had to keep my focus with the different powders and weights I had to deal with. The loads were all created with the 200gr Berrys RS bullet, except for the 230gr RMR RN bullets I received from Dudedog. The bottom picture shows the loads I created last night. We still have a couple of days before the weekend, so it is possible that I'll maybe add another load or two. Time will tell.

45acp_1.png
45acp_0.png
 
Cool!

Not a lot of nose on those on those old RMR 230 RNs.:)
Going to miss those, they shot well for me.

Will your scope and mount work on the new .45?
 
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Cool!

Bot a lot of nose on those on those old RMR 230 RNs.:)
Going to miss those, they shot well for me.

Will your scope and mount work on the new .45?

Even though you pulled those bullets, they still seated tight when compared to the Berry's. It is a lot of bullet with a very round nose. Since you are going to miss them, hopefully you kept one or two back just to look at them once in a while.

The mount should work but I won't be using it the first time out. For the first time I mostly want to get some rounds through it, check the cycling, and also get some idea of the velocity and POI. This will then help me decide where to start with my real load development.

I had a few more primed cases left so I decided to load up a Longshot load also. The MIN load of 7.0gr shows a 918fps velocity, so this load will probably one of the first I will shoot to guarantee successful cycling. I assume not many use Longshot in 45acp, so it will interesting to see what velocity I get and how the recoil feels.
 
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All the planning means nothing unless you actually go out and execute the plan. Well today I took the P220 out for the first time to see how it and the loads would perform.

The P220 had enough lubrication when I received it, but I did add some grease to the areas I normally apply grease to for my other guns. I also ran a patch through the barrel just to ensure there were no excess oil.

This is a reloading thread, but I have to say that I was impressed with the P220. It ran flawlessly with all the loads with no failure at all. Both magazines were also used without any issues.

Before the range session today I created an additional load with Longshot. This was going to be the first load I would test since it had the highest velocity at MIN load. I will get to the Longshot load later, but I can say that it was actually a very soft shooting load, but I was not able to capture any velocity data. The chrono was reading over 1800fps, which was due to the position of the sun. After this load I moved my car to case a shade over the chrono, with everything recorded correctly afterwards.

The testing I did was the following. I had two target for each load. The top target was used first at 7yards, shooting from a standing position. This was just to get the feel of the load an trigger. The second target was used at 10yards using a rest, but still using the open sights. This is also where the chrono was used. At 10yards it gets difficult for me to know where to aim exactly with my eyes, but at least I got some information from it.

As I went trough the loads I think I started getting the hang of the gun and aim, so I assume that is what the latter targets showed some better results. The 7yard target I think is a good barometer of the load since I think I was very consistent with my aiming point at 7yards.

The following load was test 6th out of 8, and had the best accuracy with 7yd and 10yd combined. I'm not saying it is the best load, but on this day it showed the best results. I did make a note that 2 cases landed a bit shorter when ejected, but overall it had a good ejection pattern.

45acp P220, 4.4"
Case: Geco
COL: 1.175"
Berrys, 200gr, RS, CFEpistol, 6.3gr, CCI300
Average: 717
ES: 86
SD: 36.5
Force: 228
PF: 143
Velocities: 693, 736, 773, 698, 687
Grouping @ 7yd: 0.7", @ 10yd: .71"
Test Date: 01/28/2018
Load-1043-10_7yd_10yd.png
 
This load is the 3rd load out of 8 I tested. I could definitely see and feel it shot well at 7yards, but I think I was still trying to find my sweet spot at 10yards. I should be able to ascertain the true potential of this load once I test it at 15yards using a scope. Very good SD/ES numbers.

45acp P220, 4.4"
Case: Geco
COL: 1.175"
Berrys, 200gr, RS, Bullseye, 4.6gr, CCI300
Average: 727
ES: 12
SD: 4.7
Force: 235
PF: 145
Velocities: 731, 734, 726, 722, 726
Grouping @ 7yd: 0.79", @ 10yd: 1.36: with one flyer
Test Date: 01/28/2018

Load-1039-10_7yd_10yd.png
 
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The following load also performed very well and felt good. I think the accuracy will be better once I start testing using a scope. This load was the 2nd out of 8 I tested. Very good ES/SD numbers.

45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: Geco
COL: 1.175"
Berrys, 200gr, RS, BE86, 5.9gr, CCI300
Average: 749
ES: 17
SD: 6.9
Force: 249
PF: 149
Velocities: 741, 744, 753, 752, 758
Grouping @ 7yd: 0.79", @10yd: 1.03"
Test Date: 01/28/2018
Load-1042-10_7yd_10yd.png
 
you got an es of 12? oh wait, you are using bullseye. now i get it. note: small extreme spreads don't guarantee accuracy!

glad you are having fun with this.

murf
 
This is the first of two HP-38 load. It was tested 4th out of 8. The 10yd grouping is not very good, but I think this is purely me and my eyes. The 7yd grouping is a better yardstick. This load showed some erratic ejection pattern, so maybe it needs a bit more pressure. The SD/ES numbers are also not that good.

45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: Geco
COL: 1.175"
Berrys, 200gr, RS, HP38, 5.2gr, CCI300
Average: 692
ES: 91
SD: 36.8
Force: 213
PF: 138
Velocities: 677, 755, 664, 671, 694
Grouping @ 7yd: 0.73", @10yd: 1.46"
Test Date: 01/28/2018
Load-1040-10_7yd_10yd.png
 
This is the secondnd of the HP-38 loads. This load was shot last, but was basically kept in reserve to use if I encountered any failure to feed or failure to eject. This is a known load using the 230gr bullets from Dudedog. The 7yd standing test was actually 6 shots instead of the normal 5 and the load shot very well. Again, don't read too much into the 10yd test, since I think it is more me that is not able to find the single aiming point. I normally have a different target (bigger center) if I want to shoot with open sights at 10yards or further, but did not create one for these 10yd tests today.

45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: Winchester
COL: 1.200"
RMR, 230gr, RN, HP38, 5gr, CCI300
Average: 768
ES: 30
SD: 11.9
Force: 301
PF: 176
Velocities: 764, 773, 757, 787, 761
Grouping @ 7yd: 0.72", @10yd: 1.64"
Test Date: 01/28/2018
Load-1045-10_7yd_10yd.png
 
This is the 5th out of 8 loads I tested. The ejection pattern was good except for 1 case that fell a bit short. No other comments and I think this load shot well. It seems a had a few fliers, but this load will be a good starting point for working up a few loads using Unique. The ES/SD numbers are bad due to one high number, so I'm not sure what to make of it.

45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: Geco
COL: 1.175"
Berrys, 200gr, RS, Unique, 5.8gr, CCI300
Average: 769
ES: 94
SD: 35.4
Force: 263
PF: 153
Velocities: 721, 815, 774, 752, 786
Grouping @ 7yd: 0.95", @10yd: .88"
Test Date: 01/28/2018


Load-1041-10_7yd_10yd.png
 
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