I saw something Alarming!

[geekWithA.45]

Considering the original hypothesis, that he had just bought the ammo from the nearby gunstore, (and possibly the gun???), and was on his way to work as an armed guard, the guy has 3 choices:

A)Travel to work with an empty gun.
B) Load up in the gunstore
C) Load up in the street.


None of these choices are great.

A) Bad Idea. Being openly armed makes one a target. It pretty much sucks to be a target because you have a gun, but be unable to do anything about it because its empty.

B) Bad Idea. Loading up in the gunstore gets the proprietor and employees really, really upset. They've all seen Terminator, they all have guns, and they tend to point them at people who start loading in the sales area.

C) Bad Idea. It alarms the public, indiscretion with arms isn't kosher, and it invites intervention. Flipside, he's wearing a uniform, which would generally buy him at least the benefit of the doubt in the eyes of cops or passers by. Probably, the least sucky of the three alternatives.


What was this man's _real_ mistake?

NOT HAVING ENOUGH AMMO AT HOME IN THE FIRST PLACE.

THAT is what placed him into his untenable position.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I mean come on how many times have you seen or you have loaded your revolver at the bus stop.

Not at the bus stop. I used to load up my Glock all the time while I was pumping gas in East Grand Forks. Open carry is legal in Minnesota. *shrug*

What was this man's _real_ mistake?

NOT HAVING ENOUGH AMMO AT HOME IN THE FIRST PLACE.

My story leads me to my next point. I used to go to school in Grand Forks, ND. I wasn't licensed to carry in North Dakota, but I was licensed to carry in my home state of Minnesota. So, as soon as I crossed the state line I'd start loading mags. Like I mentioned above, sometimes this meant loading mags while I was sitting at the Conoco gasing up for the trip.

Probably not this guy's situation, but it isn't always lack of planning.

 

[ARperson]

My first reaction was to the statement "my wife screamed."

Why?

Why do women have to scream like lunatics?

Why couldn't she have helped by taking the time to become a good witness in case details were needed at a later time. Or at least watch the thread starter's six while he is driving.

Anything but the scream. :banghead:

 

[History Prof]

This guy at first look appears to be a little mentally challenged. And I know I haven't talked to the guy so I don't know if he is or not. . . . so I got a better look at him and it was even more disturbing he really looks like he has a mental problem, it could be just that it is a physical one that is making him look like a mental case, but most of us have had a mental case in your high school or college the ones that always look at the ground and mumbles. Well thats him.

I've had plenty of people like this in my classes. Some were truly NUTS, and some were outstanding students, but with, perhaps, a touch of a learning disability, or simply a physical "abnormality." Those who were outstanding, I'd trust with firearms. BTW, I've had some totally normal looking people who were also NUTS, whom I'd never trust with firearms. You never can tell. As for the behavior? I've noticed that people with physical "abnormalities" tend to become anti-social. Who wouldn't? Even if you have Einstein's brain, how do you think someone who *looks* as you described must have been treated growing up? Think about how that would have shaped his personality. Personally, I'd attribute loading a firearm in public as anti-social and poor judgement. Sort of an "I'm ok doing this, I'm in uniform, the heck with what anyone thinks" kind of thought process.

 

[NineseveN]

Originally Posted by TheBigBulgarian
This guy at first look appears to be a little mentally challenged. And I know I haven't talked to the guy so I don't know if he is or not. . . . so I got a better look at him and it was even more disturbing he really looks like he has a mental problem, it could be just that it is a physical one that is making him look like a mental case, but most of us have had a mental case in your high school or college the ones that always look at the ground and mumbles. Well thats him.

What are you, Ms. Cleo's Brother? How in the world would you diagnose a mental disability from inside your car or across the street? Did you ever stop to think of the myriad of possibilities for such behavior that do not include someone being crazy or retarded? Unless you're a mental health professional, I don't think you can make that diagnosis.

BTW, if I were to go on your words alone (structure, phrases, tone, flow, word choice, grammar) I'd guess you were a 15-year old kid with too much free time and a bit of 'retard' in ya. Of course, that's most likely not the case, it's more likely that you don't present yourself very well in written form and your arguments are not well thought out or substantiated (hence the goofy logic paths and erratic spurts of excitement that you take in your posts).

Sure, someone acting suspicious with a firearm in public alarms me, but so does the appearance of gun owners that feel it is within their right to decide who should and should not have guns based on prejudice and street-corner medical examinations from afar.

I think you were right to be cautious, but you did overreact, so did your wife.

 

[Zen21Tao]

Hello, this wasn't a long haired unshaved badly dressed guy swaggering back a forth with a gun. This was a uniformed individual loading his duty weapon on a bench outside of a gunstore.

Well loading the gun in public = not very responsible. at least to me.
And again this guy is supposed to protect people and he is walking around with an empty revolver!

I live in an apartment building with walls thin enough that if I have an AD/ND that the round would go right through the wall into the other apartment. Is it irresponsible for me to load my gun in private? In fact, a few months ago a UF Football player had a ND that enter his neighbors apartment, luckily no one was hurt. While loading a gun in private may seem better since "out of sight out of mind" it is where the barrel of the gun is pointed that is more important. I would much rather a guy be at a bus stop safely pointing his barrel down at the ground than be in his house with the barrel pointing out his window towards a neighbors house. With that said, I agree with geekWithA.45 that this guy sounds like he didn't have a better alternative to loading his duty weapon were he was at if he didn't have the ammo he wanted/needed at home. If the gun was pointed in a safe direction I see nothing wrong.

 

[Covey Rise]

hmmmm

A guy loading his gun on the street in the open is legal in most non-liberal states unless the local city has a law, but since he is a security gaurd?

What's scarier to me his your wife screaming and temporarily averting attention from the road while driving your 5000 lb SUV that has a much better potential of killing people.

I guess its trivial.

 

[Correia]

This is one of those situations where you should probably just use your brain and common sense.

For those posters who think that if you see a gun, or anything suspicious, you should sick the cops on them, use your brain. Is this a person actually a threat, or do they just have a gun? Gun doesn't equal threat. But if the person is armed, and his behaviour is sending up warning flags, call help.

For those posters who think that involving the police in anything is a jack booted violation of constitutional rights, chill out. Use your brain. Just because he has a gun doesn't make him one of us. Doesn't make him a good guy, and doesn't make him your friend.

Every situation is different. Hard and fast denoucements one way or the other are going to be right sometimes, and wrong others.

In the meantime, quit harping on each other. Jeez. This is THR, the low road.

 

[redneckrepairs]

Read the first post and again thanked my lucky stars that i live out in the " wild west" where neither handguns nor loading of same is really something to comment on lol

 

[Low-Sci]

Ok...

So there are literally hundreds of possibilities involved in this situation. No one action will be perfect for all of those possibilities.

Politicians like to act self-important. They pose, they cheat, they sling insults at their opponents, they attack the characters of other men.

We are not politicians, so let's not behave as if we are. We are reasonable people trying to figure out the best course of action, given a certain situation. So lets put some honest thought to this and figure out what perhaps should be done in the future. Our conclusion won't be perfect, but it will be a damn sight better than just winging it. So much of owning a firearm to begin with is about planning for a situation, so lets plan for this one.

Bottom line is, you have a man in some sort of uniform, probably private security, loading a weapon in a place that is unusual, and storing said weapon on his person in full view. This person appears, at a glance, to have a mental disability, but that may not be the case. None of this is illegal, but it does seem strange.

Since no laws are being broken, lets say the police don't need to be involved. We'll err on the side of liberty for the sake of arguement.

However, this person seems to be using very poor judgement, as while it is legal to load and carry a firearm in public, it is socially alarming and would cause reasonable but uneducated people to become wary or even scared.

So I think the least measure is some education for this person in uniform is warrranted. Let him know that you know he is within his rights, but by loading his weapon in public, he is causing some degree of public distress that doesn't need to occur. Tell him, politely, to load his weapon elsewhere and this distress will not occur in the future.

What other reasonable measures might be taken?

 

[NineseveN]

What other reasonable measures might be taken?

Ooh! Ooooh! I know, I know! How about, minding our own damn business?

 

[redneckrepairs]

I know nothing about the area , other than i dont tresspass east of the iron river lightly , i dont live there nor do i want to , so the local mores are a quandry to me , i can understand brandishing the fact that " I got a gun " if not agree with it from what has been posted here tho , damm folks get a grip the guy did nothing illegal from what i have seen , maby strange but then i have known folks who wont allow smoking or drinking in thier cars , and i find this strange also howeaver none of what i have seen rises to the level of gvt. intervention imho

 

[vynx]

I wouldn't call the police but the post does make me think about something else.

Anyone can get a security guard uniform. Why do so many posters imply that if you have a uniform on you must be legit?

Just because someone knocks on my door and is wearing a uniform doesn't mean squat to me. I want to see ID and some kind of official looking vehicle to back that uniform up.

I can easily imagine someone who is deluded playing "dress up" and "pretending" to be a security guard or police officer. Heck, in California we have some people who donated money to a local sheriff and got look alike badges who got into trouble trying to use them improperly.

I still wouldn't call the cops though - innocent till proven guilty is my motto - maybe I would strike upa conversation.

 

[Zen21Tao]

Anyone can get a security guard uniform. Why do so many posters imply that if you have a uniform on you must be legit?

Huumm.... perhaps simple statistical base rates? There are far more legitimate security guards wearing security uniforms in the total population than people illegitimately posing as security guards. It isn't a guarantee he was a legitimate guard just an extremely high probability.

I can easily imagine someone who is deluded playing "dress up" and "pretending" to be a security guard or police officer. Heck, in California we have some people who donated money to a local sheriff and got look alike badges who got into trouble trying to use them improperly.

Basing judgements on "ease of imagination" is an example of using the Availability Heuristic. The problem with such a heuristic is that more often than not it leads someone to disregard base rate information and arrive at innacurate and incorrect judgements.

 

[MechAg94]

Next time I go to a gun show, I better make sure my cell phone is fully charged. It is gonna get a lot of use what with all the shady characters carrying firearms.


I see a lot of weird looking people at gun shows. Hell, they probably think I look like a goofy idiot. It doesn't mean they are crooks.

 

[asknight]

Heh

As I am making a lest turn I had to look to the right to check for cars as soon as I made the turn I focused on him and OH MY GOD HE HAS A GUN. My wife screams.

Ya know, that part really, really tainted your entire post. It leads me to believe that you're certainly in the wrong state of mind in regards to firearms. It's ok for you to have a gun, but not for anyone else?

With all the millions of guns in the US, if you're going to freak out like that every time you see one, I forsee a short lifespan for both you and your wife due to stroke or heart attack.

 

[rbernie]

I still wouldn't call the cops though - innocent till proven guilty is my motto - maybe I would strike upa conversation.

Bingo!

Tell him, politely, to load his weapon elsewhere and this distress will not occur in the future.

Another winner....

 

[High Planes Drifter]

Talking to yourself doesnt necessarily mean that you are a nutcase. Arguing with youself would, but not simply talking to youself; if you get along with yourself I think its fine. He might chat with himself about guns, did you even bother to roll down your window and listen in?

 

[History Prof]

Talking to yourself doesnt necessarily mean that you are a nutcase. Arguing with youself would, but not simply talking to youself; if you get along with yourself I think its fine. He might chat with himself about guns, did you even bother to roll down your window and listen in?

That reminds me of another point. When I was writing my dissertation, I began to put on a lot of extra weight. So I began jogging. I found that it cleared my head, and I was able to "write" while I was jogging, but coudn't remember what I had "written" when I got home. So I wired a voice activated microcassette to a lapel mic and "wrote" as I jogged. I musta looked totally insane and "retarted" to other people as I jogged past them on the streets, but I didn't care. And now, I gots me a PhD. Sometimes you do what you gotta....

 

[lbmii]

Ok everybody; a guy loading a gun at a bus stop equals a call to the police.

 

[Low-Sci]

Ok, so to play devil's advocate...

Why must a guy loading a gun at a bus stop equal a call to the police?

If there's nothing illegal about his behavior, the Jack-Booted Poes don't need to stick their noses in it and neither does anyone else. In fact, it would be a violation of his second amendment rights for you to call the police on him, which puts the jackboots squarely on your own feet for wanting to infringe on RKBA just because it makes you nervous.

 

[PinnedAndRecessed]

Ok, so to play devil's advocate...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why must a guy loading a gun at a bus stop equal a call to the police?

If there's nothing illegal about his behavior, the Jack-Booted Poes don't need to stick their noses in it and neither does anyone else. In fact, it would be a violation of his second amendment rights for you to call the police on him, which puts the jackboots squarely on your own feet for wanting to infringe on RKBA just because it makes you nervous.

Ok, so let's really play devil's advocate. The guy was wearing a phoney guard uniform that he stole. He's as mad a March hare. Next week he hits the news for having seriously wounded some people. In retrospect, what would you wish had been done?

BTW, LEOs are not Jack-Booted. And I resent the implication. And if you weren't implying such, exactly to whom were you referring?

 

[Correia]

Or Low-Sci, you could just your common sense, and decide if the person is a threat or not. That is why all of us CCW people are supposed to be in condition yellow.

Just because somebody has a gun does not make him one of us, and doesn't make him a good guy. Calling the police on somebody acting in a suspicious manner is not a violation of his 2nd Amendment rights.

I'm not saying the initial poster was right by any means, but read what I posted earlier. Too many people here want to live in a black and white world, and it doesn't work that way.

Is it so damn hard for us gun people to use our fricking brains and decide how to act in each situation, based on that situation, rather than screaming jack booted thuggery at every turn?

 

[ajax]

I really have no input on the thread in general. What I would like to say has more to do with verbal attacks some THR members seem all to ready to launch in threads like this one. This is the second thread i've read lately where someone has seen something their not sure about and have come here to discuss. Then certian members with the say nothing mentallity attack because they act as if to discuss the situation is wrong because you should have no problem what so ever with what was seen. You guys know who you are so no names need mentioned but you should try showing some respect for fellow THR members. If you don't like whats being said try being polite or maybe say nothing at all if your not capable of that.

 

[Low-Sci]

Right...

Correia: I know you have to decide whether he's a threat or not, and that most likely he isnt. I wasn't implying a black and white world as what I actually think, I was only phrasing a hypothetical. I don't actually believe what I said, I said it hoping that it would provoke some thought.

PinnedandRecessed: Like I said, I don't actually believe what I'm saying if I tell you that I'm playing devil's advocate beforehand. I wasn't referring to "exactly" anyone, and there was no real offense intended. "Jack-booted" is a phrase I used in character, so please understand that I don't actually mean it. Like I said before, I made that post hoping it would provoke some thought, and it did.