I shoot snakes at ground level with 9mm often, I'm worried about ricochet.

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I've always used a long handle shovel blade myself, but only when it was absolutely unavoidable (which is RARE).
You are on THR.....where we are exhorted to abide by our federal, state, and local laws, right?
PETA or not, your location says "Missouri"....better recheck your state laws.

Excerpt from Missouri Dept of Conservation website:
"Few Missourians realize that all snakes native to our state are protected. The Wildlife Code of Missouri treats snakes, lizards and most turtles as nongame. This means that there is no open season on these animals, and it is technically unlawful to kill them. There is a realistic exception, however: If a venomous snake were in close association with people, which could result in someone being bitten." (There you go, that is a valid reason....notice it doesn't say "whack 'em whenever you see 'em".) Venomous snakes in MO are; Osage Copperhead, Western Cottonmouth, Timber Rattlesnake, Eastern Massasauga Rattlesnake, Western Pygmy Rattlesnake.
http://mdc.mo.gov/nathis/herpetol/snake/index.htm

More excerpts from Missouri Dept of Conservation website:
"There is no record of a human death caused by a copperhead bite in this state, but medical treatment for such bites is necessary."

"Few people in Missouri suffer venomous snakebites, despite the fact that there are five venomous species and at least one of them—the copperhead—is commonly encountered. Most bites occur when people are trying to kill or handle the snakes.
About 8,000 people are bitten by venomous snakes each year in the United States. Fewer than five die, which amounts to a fraction of one percent. By comparison, about 120 people die annually from bee stings and 150 die when struck by lightning."

I don't see a location mentioned for the OP, but he'd be wise to check his state wildlife laws also. Many venomous snakes are protected species.


Just quoting that since a few people seem to have missed it. We don't advocate breaking the law on THR.


And I gotta ask...what are some you so angry about? I mention the possibility of not engaging in indiscriminate killing, and some of you just seem to be furious over it. Is the name calling really necessary? You really think that's how someone on THR should act? Some of you really need to take 10 deep breaths and then just look at yourself. The internet is not really serious business. You don't need to be frothing with anger and calling people PETA members for suggesting a solution to a problem that doesn't involve killing. I'm simply amazed.
 
I think that some THR members need to learn comprehensive reading skills. The OP isn't asking if he should wear snake boots and carry garden equipment while running on his property. He's asking how to reduce the risk of dangerous ricochet when he shoots a poisonous snake while exercising on his property.

My experience with ricochets is that they are hard to predict. I doesn't take much to send the bullet back toward you. Therefore, I would echo what other members with comprehensive reading skills have advised: check out pest control loads.

It could be a good excuse to find a little airweight and use .38 special shot loads.
 
Wow, I really should have started a thread on just ricochet, and not included my nefarious reason.

I'm going to try out the snake shot, or maybe some frangible if I can get my hands on some. I have a revolver, a .22 Taurus Tracker, but it has a 6.5" barrel, so it's not a gun I could run with. Plus .22 shotshells are quite anemic. I save them for hornet hunting. O crap, now I've done it.:)
 
I've shot at matches at my range where misses glance off the ground and hit the backstop WAY up high. We've got an 80 foot steep cliff as our backstop. Those reflected bullets cause quite a kick in the gravel when they hit up there. From such occuraces I'd say that ground reflections that leave the area are far more an issue than some may think. That bullet has just left the area with better than half of its muzzle energy. That means it could definetly hurt some other person at what? A quarter mile away? Similarly I've been walking up the side of that same range pit with a wall of dirt to protect me to get to the other pits and heard bullets singing through the overhead trees above my head. Again reflections or richochets that zipped off with a goodly amount of energy at almost a 45 degree angle to the original path.

Oddly enough you're likely not in any big danger from the bullets if it hits a rock directly. Under such a case the lead will deform and the bullet just disintegrate into a spray of lead and copper fragments to the sides. Anything that comes back would be a smaller bit and due to a secondary refection off something else. It may sting and draw blood but it's not like the whole bullet is going to come back and wound you.... unless by some really oddball circumstance it happesn to hit a cup shaped hollow in just the right way.

But overall given what you're shooting, where and how I'd have to agree with the others about using shot of some sort either out of your Glock or from some other sort of gun. Or just whack 'em to death with a walking stick.

And if shooting from your glock does it really matter all that much if it doesn't cycle the action? It's a snake after all. It won't be shooting back if you only wound it. You'll have time to rack the slide and take a second shot in safety.
 
Who gives a rip how many snakes you kill. There is NO shortage of them.
Not true of everywhere.

When I was a kid (in the 60's) we had lots of snakes around where I live.
These days, not so much.

As for the original poster's question....

You're not in too much danger of a ricochet yourself, but not having an effective backstop is certainly an example of poor shooting.

A stick or a rock would be a better choice IMO.
 
Choose suitable ammo to negate your ricochet risk, and always be sure of your backstop. As to whether or not killing these snakes is a bad thing, that is up to you. I do find it ironic that snakes seem to be the one animal species that draws out the "needless killing" crowd. I never see this kind of response when someone is taking coyotes, prairie dogs or hogs. It's kind of funny really.

As for me, I don't play the odds. If a venomous snake is in the immediate vicinity of my home, it isn't going to survive its discovery. I will not allow my children or animals to be exposed to unnecessary risk. If you choose to, that's up to you, but your chiding of others that don't share your view is very similar to those who harass gun owners with CCW permits for being paranoid.
 
I never see this kind of response when someone is taking coyotes, prairie dogs or hogs. It's kind of funny really.

Well hogs...are DELICIOUS! lol. Course I hear the same about snake...never had it. Not sure if I would eat a coyote...

You are probably fine with shot like you said. It is good you are thinking about ricochet just keep in mind as some here have said, it can be very unpredictable and zoom out farther than you'd think. Had someone shoot my grandfathers car on a city road twice recently, we have never been able to find them but the only real area they could shoot without notice is nearly a mile away. They probably think they are in no danger of hitting anything from that area but they have twice come within 2 ft of hitting a person which is probably not something anyone on this board wants to deal with.
 
There is in fact a shortage of many snakes. The Louisiana Pine Snake is a prime example. Also many snakes that inhabit specific eco-regions such as long-leaf pine savannah (ie. Eastern Diamondbacked Rattlesnakes and Southern Hog-nosed Snakes) are declining as a consequence in the reduction of habitat.

There seems to be a common misconception that certain species of North American snakes are aggressive (Cottonmouths). Cottonmouths are not aggressive, they merely stand their ground and display their white mouth as their first line of defense. They do this becase aside from humans critters that are not immune to their venom know to give them a wide berth. This misconception about aggressive behaviors in addition to the average persons poor snake ID skills leads to much indiscriminate and pointless killing.

As a biologist (also a hunter and a fisherman) I believe that indiscriminate killing is inherently bad and in many cases illegal. Snakes play a valuable role in the ecosystem. I'm not telling you to let a bunch of cottonmouths hang around in your front yard, but why kill them for no reason.

FYI if you are bitten by a venomous North American snake remain calm. You have time to get to the hospital and receive treatment if you use your head. Most venomous snake bites are not fatal.
 
Do you think that someone could drive themselves to the hospital (30 mins in my case) with a bite from a cottonmouth, or is the risk of unconciousness to great to risk and I should just call an ambulance? (not being sarcastic)
 
From the folks I know that have been bitten, I'd say for moccasin or copperhead you could drive yourself. Unless you drive a stick shift and the bite is on your ankle. For a rattlesnake bite I'd call an ambulance or have someone drive me to the ER.

But that second-hand experience is mostly for copperheads. I only knew one guy who was bitten by a moccasin and who knows if he got a full dose of venom. He's deceased now, but that had nothing to do with the bite.
 
You would probably be okay if you drove yourself, but staying calm and waiting for the ambulance would definately be the safer bet.

The main thing is to stay calm and relatively still. Also, never put ice on the would as can increase the potency of some snake venoms.

I'm glad this forum can have a civil (mostly) conservation on the subject, as that is not often the case when discussing snakes.
 
I admire all of you who would let the snake live to see another day. Respect for life is a great attribute.

I live in Alabama and do know how fast a cottonmouth can move. It would be difficult to shoot one of them with a 9mm if it were attacking you. As far as the ricochet is concerned, you probably cannot tell with certainty where debris will wind up. Especially when you can hit something underground you don't see and can't judge it's shape and other characteristics.

I do understand the impulse to view snakes and certain other animal species as "targets", but remember that they probably don't view you as a target of entertainment and getting snakebit generally means you scared the thing or intruded into it's family 'home'.

For every snake you shoot, a thousand rats and mice breathe a sigh of relief.
 
In my area, an ambulance is a minimum 30-45 minute wait, followed by a 35-60 minute drive to the hospital, most likely followed by a flight for life, or a minimum 90 minute (likely 2.5 hour) drive to a hospital with antivenom. I MIGHT survive that. A 32 pound at risk child with other medical complications including severe allergies is NOT going to.

Sorry, but venomous snake = dead where I live. I will leave them alone outside of my living space, but inside it, they are going to be killed. If you are worried about rats, get a cat. I have three and haven't seen a mouse or rat on my land in at least two years.
 
Apologies for making my first post in such a contentious thread...I have a good deal of experience dealing with snakes. I agree that they shouldn't be killed indicriminately, but allowing poisonous snakes to hang around in areas where there are children would probably not be a great idea. Some non-poisonous snakes mimic their more dangerous relatives and are threatened or endangered and could cause considerable fines if killed even in states that don't protect all snakes (and you're caught heh heh).

Keep in mind that the toxicity of the venom of the pit vipers varies a great deal, the copperhead's venom is the least, followed by the cottonmouth, then the rattlesnakes. A copperhead bite on an extremity isn't extremely dangerous to a healthy adult, while an eastern diamondback bite to the torso can be life-threatening, and rapidly fatal to the sick, the elderly, or children. The wide variance in effects of bites by the same species is due to the fact that pit vipers have control of the amount of venom delivered in a bite; a warning bite may contain no venom, while a snake that has been poked at may envenomate massively. Their venom load may be also depleted by recent feeding episodes.

The cottonmouth really doesn't deserve the fearsome reputation, they are very hesitant to bite unless provoked. I have inadvertantly been within easy range of large ones that were content to scare me half to death and then turn and slither away as soon as they felt they had room. The threat display goes through three stages, rattling the tail in the leaves or water, the mouth display that gives them their name, and if cornered they will sometimes charge right at the threat with the head held very high. The charging behavior is mostly bluff, they will usually veer off right at the last second, but it is very unnerving to be ran at by large poisonous snakes, so most animals/people will give ground at this point. If they are coiled in a defensive posture, they will most definitely strike if harrassed, but given sufficient room they will try to escape. Attempting to kill one with a stick or similar will invite a defensive counter-attack, and this is where most bites happen.

Even though they are the least venomous, the copperheads are the most likely biters. They have a behavioral tendency to get still and hide if approached, and rely on their camo color pattern to blend in-if you're not looking close it's pretty easy to step on one, or put a hand on it. I was bitten on the finger by one of these some years ago, very painful, not recomended.

Snakes are deaf, but very sensitive to ground vibrations. If you're in snake country make your footfalls heavy, even stomping the ground occasionally, and they'll usually get out of your way. If you have time to draw and aim, you've got time to back up a few feet and go around, but I also wouldn't tolerate poisonous snakes in my yard. A .38/.357 revolver with rat shot is very efficient and little trouble to carry, with small ricochet/downrange problems.
 
I think that some THR members need to learn comprehensive reading skills. The OP isn't asking if he should wear snake boots and carry garden equipment while running on his property. He's asking how to reduce the risk of dangerous ricochet when he shoots a poisonous snake while exercising on his property.

I want to take a moment to second this.

For the love of all things holy he didn't ask if he should kill the snakes or not. Someone smashes in your house you might could crawl out your bedroom window too and not kill the poor burglar. Some states would rather you do this. My house they going to catch buckshot or hollow points.

I would be concerned about FMJ or HP's ricochet back as well as bouncing and continuing forward for a long distance, in addition to pieces of rock and other crap being knocked up. If you go for shot shells loads make sure they function reliably in your weapon. The CCI ones wouldn't work in my pt145 but I have a friend that can load some hot enough to get it done. I just carry it with HP tho in the outdoors, i'm more concerned about coyotes, wild dogs and other things that I think might require a bit more oomph.

I may be a coward for shooting snakes but I have yet to die from a poison snake bite, or even be bit by one. FYI being bit by a black snake is not that big of a deal since its non poison but it still hurts like hell. So an alive and well coward I guess I am. I declare open season on anything that might cause me harm in the outdoors, poison or not.

Saying its illegal to shoot snakes because they are protected might be so but I put this right on the same level with not using a firearm in self defense just because its illegal to discharge a firearm within city limits.
 
Who here would support me going through the woods and shooting deer, and just leaving the corpses there on the ground?

Who said he was just going to leave them laying and not give them a proper burial? Whats the stats on death or injury due to deer bites? Convince me they are dangerous to me as a snake and I'm going to have to buy a freaking backhoe to bury them and a lot more ammo.
 
Killing something just because it posses some vague danger is the whole point. This isn't a question about a snake in your kids bedroom, or in their sandbox in the backyard. We're talking about snakes that are just living in the wild, and people killing them just to kill them, while breaking the law in the process.
 
Killing something just because it posses some vague danger is the whole point. This isn't a question about a snake in your kids bedroom, or in their sandbox in the backyard. We're talking about snakes that are just living in the wild, and people killing them just to kill them, while breaking the law in the process.
There it is. And no I'm not a PETA member either.
 
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