I shot a 1911 kimber ultra today, and now I want one...

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Vitamin G

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So, I'm torn between having the money, and getting one. I currently carry a Bersa .380, and I'll probably keep it, although I can't foresee having to carry the bersa because the 1911 would be too big (in the smaller size that I'm wanting)
My basic questions are as follows...

Any major drawbacks or advantages to getting the smaller "ultra" over the full size

Any brand known for reliability? I've been reading alot about how 1911's require tinkering of some parts for reliable ejection. I'd prefer a brand I NEVER (ok, rarely) had to touch other than cleaning.

How are the warranty\service for the different companies?

Like I said, I shot a 1911 for the first time today, and immediately fell in love with it. Probably because it was just so darn comfortable. So what are the major players in the 1911 market, and what are the pros\cons of each of them?

I know I could go buy a magazine, but i'd like the "everyday" opinions rather than some staff writer, and I didn't find what I was looking for on the 1911 forum.

Thanks all :)
 
I hear the myth of 1911's not being reliable but with the good brands it's a bunch of horse pucky.

Most problems (if built right) are because of the extractor being to tight or loose. This takes about 5 minutes to tune (bend) and then you are good to go for years. Mags are the other most common problem.

The rule is, the smaller the 1911, the more problems you "can" have. I think Kimber (pre II) makes the best 3" 1911's.

If you want a small one, I would go with the 4" "Compact" or up to the 4 1/4" cammander size.

You just can't beat a full size though.

Good brands? Older Kimbers, Newer Springfileds, and the newest Colts. l

AVOID the cheapo brands except for the Norinco. Bren
 
Kimber Ultras like any 3" 1911 are a luck of the draw. Timing on the short 45's is an issue...for all of them. Some work fine from the get-go. Others need to be tweaked and different springs need to be tried to make them go bang everytime.

Having experienced customer service with Kimber, Ruger, Les Baer, and Springfield, I'd rate them in the order I listed them with Springfield being far behind the others in terms of fixing the problem, turnaround time, ability to speak with who is working on your gun, and responsiveness to e-mails or phone calls.
 
Hello,
I guess like everyone says, it is the luck of the draw. But I will tell you I have both a kimber pro carry series I ( this is the 4 inch), and I have a kimber ultra carry series II. Both are perfect. Maybe it was good luck to get them this way, but they both shoot anything I have put in them, and have never had a ftf or fte in either one. The size for carrying is just a personal preference, they are both close to the same weight, but the ultra is the one I carry every day. I love my kimbers:D
I have and have had a few different colts, and have had good luck with them also, except for a defender that I had bought, straight out of the box it had at least 1 fte every mag, with both mags that came with it. I could have tuned the extractor and bought different mags, but I was just really mad and brought it back to the store and got the kimber ultra carry.
I have two other fullsize colts that run perfectly fine, so I am not putting down colt, I think they make a great gun also.
As far as anyother companys, I have no experience with.
 
my ultra carry I ran like a champ outta the box:D

as did my 1991A1 and commando:D

no experience w\ the other brands.

just my $.02

clown
 
I have one and for the most part like it, but that is not to say that it hasn't frustrated me quite a bit.

The problem with Ultra and/or officer's-sized 1911s is one of timing. The timing of the cycle is critical to proper functioning of the gun. There must be enough time for the spent case to eject and the new round collected and fed to the chamber. Where the problem comes in is that the 1911 was design in tandem with the .45 acp cartridge. The 5" barrel given the charge of the .45 provided the correct amount of back pressure to propel the slug out at 850 fps and also to cycle the slide at the correct speed. The amount of time changing out the spent case and collecting a new round is the dwell time.

The military cut down the full-sized 1911 to a commander-sized gun. There were some problems as the powder charge remained the same, but the amount of weight of the slide was reduced and so the slide moved at a faster rate, sometimes too fast to work properly. So, they increased the spring weight.

The problem was further compounded with officer's-sized guns. Attempts were made at increasing the spring weight more and met with mixed results. Kimber decided to use a 2 stage spring system and promises some of the slowest cycling of small 1911s. This slow cycling was to emulate the dwell time in a full-sized 1911.

So, 1911s work with a balance of powder load, recoil spring weight, and the weight of the slide. Changing one aspect without proper compensatory changes in the others will result in problems. The Kimbers tend to work pretty good, but problems seem to creep in readily when the springs get worn (Kimber suggests changing every 1000 rounds) or when you change loads to something that deviates a good amount from normal loads, like really light target loads or +P loads.

My Kimber serves as my backup gun to my full-sized 1911. The only times it gets carried as the primary is when I am where I feel safe anyway.
 
So correct me if im wrong, but what I am hearing as a general rule of thumb is this...

If i get a Kimber 3" barrel, and it has problems, it should be as simple as switching a spring and trying new ammo until it is reliable?
If I get the 4" barrel, I should get VERY few problems ever, as there has been enough research that the problem of the shorter barrel has been sufficiently corrected, but the shortest barrel has not.

Clarity is key :)
 
My Para-Ordnance C6.45 has given me no problems in 300 rounds. And it has the double captive spring setup also. Ain't it pretty?!

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Though since this one has tended to be so easy to carry, I don't think a 3.5 inch barrel would have been much more dificult. I can add one of those to my collection later...
 

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I like that alot. I'm not particularly stuck on a Kimber by any means. Right now I'm debating between the 4" and 3" Is a 3.5" made? I also took a browse around gunbroker.com, and saw a 1911 with 4" barrel advertised as a 9mm. Was this some kind of freudian slip, or do these exist? I looked around the Kimber website and saw only .38, 40, (both rare) and .45

Which brand is considered the most "bang for the buck"? I'd like to stay around $600-800.

Edit : Correction. I really like the sliding trigger, and so the para seems like less of an option at this time.

Another quickie... Is there a difference is the grips between the ultra and the commander? (Ultra is 3", and Commander is 4", right?)
I'm an avid paintballer, and all my guns have the 1911 grip style. I've found some amazingly comfortable grips called "sticky grips" (if anyone wants the link, i'd be glad to provide it) and i'd like to be able to use them.
 
I have one and wouldn't recommend an Officer's Size 1911 pistol as first M1911 style of pistol to own. They can be finicky and takedown & care is different than standard Govt. or Commander's lengths. The smaller Officers size can often have proprietary designs which do not have interchangeable parts like their larger brethren.

Shooting full 230gr loads can be painful for some and 185-200gr loads will cost more unless you reload.

Would recommend a Commanders length if you are interested in owning a more compact M1911 style of pistol. Still compact, carryable. Especially if this will be your first M1911.
 
Well it is nice when a gun goes 300 rounds without any problems. The Yugo cars often went 3000 miles without any problems as well. By Wilson's break-in standards, you haven't even reaching the first cleaning yet. While a nice start, 300 rounds demonstrates very little other than the gun isn't really messed up.

Vitamin G, sure enough, if your little Kimber had problems, you could go on the trial and error bus until you finally find a nice balance where you can get things to work properly...only to find they will get out of balance as the springs wear.

Why would you want to go that route? Would it not be better to get a commander or full-sized gun that is inherently going to be a more reliable gun?

Hey, you may be a tinkerer and if so, then get the Kimber or any other teeny 1911. It may satisfy your needs to tinker for a long time. Bonzai!
 
Thats my issue. I dont WANT to tinker with the gun, but a full size is WAY too big for me (im a shorts\Tshirt kinda guy). Thats why I'm looking at the smaller versions.
Whats the smallest I could go and still have reliability? If I did go the Ultra route and swapped springs, how many shots could I expect before having to change the spring again?
 
Colt CCO, Kimber Compact.....

Officer frame...4 to 4.25 inch barrel....perfection of perfection.....
I have two Officer's and a ParaLDA Companion that are very reliable. The all have a 3.5 inch slide/barrel. I have seen problems with the Springfield Armory version.
I prefer the balance, increased accuracy and potential reliability increase of the 4 inches,BUT I like the officer's frame. A Colt CCO is 'next' on my shopping list.....
In an IWB with a good belt, they hide real nice.......
Why carry a popgun...when you can have a .45?(paraphrasing the late great Armand Swenson!)
Learn it well and carry it always(Uncle Jeff).
DVC
Jercamp45
 
Within every good product line, there are a few horrible guns and even in some horrible product lines, there are a few good guns. Prior to the slide cracking and being replaced, my Kimber Ultra Elite had some bizarre malfunctions where the round going to the chamber ends up nose up and sticking out of the breech as a live round stove pipe. The frame cracked and Kimber replaced it and the problem has gone away. Now the gun is pretty darn good.

Since you want the gun for carry, and I assume then it is for protection, then going with something like an officer's model is far from ideal as the velocity is reduced. With the Kimber, you are nearly 2" short of the 5" for which the ammo is set up to utilize. Depending on the brands and models, commander-sized slides range between 4 and 4.25" and those lengths aren't to far from the 5" size in terms of the gun cycling properly, but moving down to the officer's-size seems to move many guns too far away from the designed 5" barrel.

If you want to conceal carry, I suggest a concealed carry officer's model, also called a compact model by some companies. You get a 4-4.25" slide (akin to the Commander) but with the officer's frame.

For the diehard John Moses Browning 1911 fans, they will tell you that the 5" full-sized gun is what JMB designed and intended. The platform is solid. What JMB did not design was the commander, concealed carry officer's, and officer's-sized guns. These were post hoc rationalized chop jobs by the military.
 
Here's a suggestion based on my experience with Kimber three inch pistols.

About a year ago, I asked a question on TFL and 1911forum.com re: should I get an Ultra CDP or a Compact CDP. Three vs. four inch.

Going against the recommendations, I got the Ultra, three inch. While it was a fine pistol, shot accurate, it was NOT reliable. I even sent it back to Kimber and they supposedly fixed it.

Bottom line: the recommendation was to get minimum a four inch .45ACP pistol, five inch is better.

I have since gone to a five inch DW Patriot and it is absolutely flawless. Incredible accuracy. Also a Sig p239 in .357 Sig Both are CCW.

I am also looking for a Series I Compact alloy LNIB. My experience says to listen to the real shooters and CCW's of the forums and the concensus was to go minimum four inch, not three.

Good luck.
 
Well, I'm leaning alot more towards the 4" compact at this point. One of my main issues is that I fell in love with the combination of sliding trigger and hogue grips. Which frame would i want if the hogue grips are a must?
 
Vitamin G

Houge grips come in both Officers and Government frame sizes...
I believe they were standard on the Colt CCO and Defender, maybe the SA Micro too...but they are, what 30 bucks at just about any gun shop.
I used Pachmayer's for years, but a decade ago, I go rid of all my 'rubbers' and went back to checkered wood with skateboard tape on the frontstrap.... really nice feel!
The Pack's trapped moisture next to the steel and caused rusting quickly after dry fire sessions, close carry, etc. Had to keep a eye on it. That is perhaps not as much an issue with the lighter alloy frames. The rubber also 'grabbed' my shirt in IWB making printing more of an issue. And you cannot shift your hand quite as easy with rubber, if you have a slight displacement during the draw stroke.
Check out IWB holster's and a thick belt too...they make ALL the diff in hiding the gun well, security and speed of presentation. raftersleather.com has some nice rigs in exotic material that are very reasonable(they are the products behind Wilson's combat leather!), and Tucker has a good rep for inexpensive quality.
But Milt Sparks is numero uno in my book. I had a summer special for about 15 years (then it grew legs and disappeared from my rangebag...I think an old girlfriends kleptocrackhead daughter took it to irritate me..we DID not get along, mainly because she could not manipulate me, though she tried!). I recently ordered a MS VM2H for my Officer's trio and wait with anticipation.
One of the beautiful things with the Officer's frame is you can also get a .22 conversion unit! Makes for alot of cheap practice. I have a Ciener that has seen alot of use....but there are others our there for the Officer's frame(matter of fact mine is marked Commander/Officers and has the 4.25 inch slide/barrel). I can shoot 500 rounds of .22 in serious practice, draw, double taps, strong, weak, even the silly point shooting stuff, then burn up a Walmart value pack of 100 .45 rounds(also in real practise) to remind me it goes 'boom, boom' not plink, plink! 600 rounds of practise for 30 bucks!
Some experience...shared
Good shooting
Jercamp45
 
nothing in the pic to judge scale!

But Hogu makes something similar I believe, check out there website...I do not know it off hand.
Never shot a paintgun..pellets, plastic, rubber, laser beams, .22's, shotshells pistol projectiles; but not paintballs.
Look for the gun first...grips are fairly easy to find! You get the fit and feel of the gun, the grips can come later.....and a .45 auto ain't no paintgun!!
Jercamp45
 
ok, finally figured it out....
I think at this point I'd like a 4" (commander size, right?) Kimber with a full sized frame.

Unless anyone can point me in other directions? Suggestions? Comments? I really like the sounding board here :)

My only requirements are the full size frame, and sliding trigger, so that rules out para-ordinance :(
 
Thats awesome! If you dont mind me asking, what exactly does that run new? (in case i can't find one used) Thats a .45 right? I saw on the Kimber site that they have 40 and .38 super available. Whats the difference in stopping power\recoil\ammo cost between the three? Why would people NOT get a .45?
 
I've got a Series 1 Kimber Pro Carry and I love it. Scary accurate, great feel, good looks. I did have some trouble with the slide stop being too long and locking back the slide with rounds still in the mag. This is apparently a fairly common problem with Kimbers. Filing it down a little seems to have cleared up the problem and I've had no malfunctions since. However, there are still enough lingering doubts in my mind to stick with revolvers and a Sig P239 for carry. But a reliable, 4-inch lightweight 1911 might be the perfect carry gun.

In terms of power, the .40, .38 Super and .45 are all pretty heavy hitters. Pricewise the .40 and .45 are pretty similar, .40 seems to be a little cheaper around here. .38 Super is harder to find, more expensive and you need some serious defense loads before it starts to outperform a 9mm. I'd stick with the caliber the 1911 was designed for.
 
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